67 replies to this topic

[caduceus26]

Everyone knows, or should know, that the various mechs are designed to fulfill different roles in the game. What some players, some of whom fancy themselves Siege experts even though they haven't played the mode that long, don't seem to understand is how those roles fit into the game strategy.  A few examples:

• It is kinda dumb to yell and cuss at a SS telling him to get in the AA while he is doing what snipers do.  If there are too many snipers on the team, suggest that someone swtch to another mech. Otherwise, let him play his role.
  
• Likewise, when an Incinerator or Grenadier is raining hell into the AA on Frontline or Origin he is doing what those mechs are good at, laying down suppressing fire to deny the other team easy access to the point if/when they are already outnumbering your team there. That should provide opportunities to rush them while they are trying to avoid the fireballs or grenades coming at them non-stop or as they focus their attention on taking the Incinerator/Grenadier out.
  
• The Tech's primary role is healing teammates--killing enemies should be secondary.  If the tech is off chasing kills a lot of his teammates are probably dying because he's not available to heal.

If you are interested in an organized team where team make-up can be decided in advance there are clans available. PUGs don't often coalesce that nicely. If you think the PUG you're playing in isn't working together tell them what your strategy is--and it ain't suiciding into the AA one at a time.  That's a dumb, losing strategy.

So stop yelling, cussin', and criticizing--just play your game.  If you've got useful suggestions that can help the team win, great! Put them out there--and be constructive.  Otherwise, the sound of silence you hear from your team may be the sound of you being "flipped off."

Relax, have fun, and let the other players enjoy the game as well.  It is still just a game, after all!

Edited by caduceus26, March 10 2014 - 05:31 PM.

[ropefish]

*crys in tears of joy*
pure poetry

[TheFrostnessMonster]

Totally agree. Every mech has a specific set of skills, each for different and varying situations. Use them in conjunction together correctly, and you should be invincible.
P.S. Sniper is noob class (joke intended, to sniper fans out there )

Edited by TheFrostnessMonster, March 10 2014 - 05:22 PM.

[WarlordZ]

caduceus26, on March 10 2014 - 05:05 PM, said:

It is kinda dumb to yell and cuss at a SS telling him to get in the AA while he is doing what snipers do.  If there are too many snipers on the team, suggest that someone swtch to another mech. Otherwise, let him play his role.

No it isn't.  A backline sniper in siege doesn't contribute much since the enemy can just duck into cover without leaving the radius, and the enemy can usually fight off his allies just fine from behind cover.  All the while, the enemy team (who have all 6 players in the radius) can easily control the AA since 5 players on the AA can't stop 6 from launching missiles.  That's not to say snipers are useless in siege, but their place is on top of the AA platform where they have clear line of sight to the open space between enemy territory and the AA.  It's a great way to stop more enemies from making it inside.  The same goes for rocketeers.

caduceus26, on March 10 2014 - 05:05 PM, said:

Likewise, when an Incinerator or Grenadier is raining hell into the AA on Frontline or Origin he is doing what those mechs are good at, laying down suppressing fire to deny the other team easy access to the point if/when they are already outnumbering your team there. That should provide opportunities to rush them while they are trying to avoid the fireballs or grenades coming at them non-stop or as they focus their attention on taking the Incinerator/Grenadier out.

Again, one more guy on the AA can save or destroy a battleship where the AA would otherwise be locked in a tie.  Grenadier doesn't even require you put yourself at much risk to do it, you can just stand on the edge of the control radius and lob grenades around corners.  Bring a portable scanner and you can really ruin the enemy's day.

caduceus26, on March 10 2014 - 05:05 PM, said:

The Tech's primary role is healing teammates--killing enemies should be secondary.  If the tech is off chasing kills a lot of his teammates are probably dying because he's not available to heal.

This at least is true.  Techs are just healers that can add a little bit of damage on top of their allies' DPS.  I see too many stupid battletechs.

Edited by WarlordZ, March 10 2014 - 06:15 PM.

[Exeon]

What warlordz said

[TheFrostnessMonster]

Is it okay to badmouth strongly advise teammates who refuse to cap AA on Siege and sit in the base instead and shoot rockets and sh*t at the battleship_

[caduceus26]

WarlordZ, on March 10 2014 - 06:14 PM, said:

caduceus26, on March 10 2014 - 05:05 PM, said:

It is kinda dumb to yell and cuss at a SS telling him to get in the AA while he is doing what snipers do.  If there are too many snipers on the team, suggest that someone swtch to another mech. Otherwise, let him play his role.

No it isn't.  A backline sniper in siege doesn't contribute much since the enemy can just duck into cover without leaving the radius, and the enemy can usually fight off his allies just fine from behind cover.  All the while, the enemy team (who have all 6 players in the radius) can easily control the AA since 5 players on the AA can't stop 6 from launching missiles.  That's not to say snipers are useless in siege, but their place is on top of the AA platform where they have clear line of sight to the open space between enemy territory and the AA.  It's a great way to stop more enemies from making it inside.  The same goes for rocketeers.

I get it--and your points are well taken as they are specific to game tactics. However,be that is it may, in a PUG yelling and cussin' ain't gonna accomplish much other than p1ssin' people off. Players who engage in that kind of behavior aren't helping anyone. As I suggested, either recommend a mech change, constructively offer guidance to improve the other guy's position, or live with it.  In PUGs there ain't no bosses.  If the objective is to lead the team one must recognize what is required to get them to follow--and abusing teammates isn't the way.

caduceus26, on March 10 2014 - 05:05 PM, said:

Likewise, when an Incinerator or Grenadier is raining hell into the AA on Frontline or Origin he is doing what those mechs are good at, laying down suppressing fire to deny the other team easy access to the point if/when they are already outnumbering your team there. That should provide opportunities to rush them while they are trying to avoid the fireballs or grenades coming at them non-stop or as they focus their attention on taking the Incinerator/Grenadier out.

Again, one more guy on the AA can save or destroy a battleship where the AA would otherwise be locked in a tie.  Grenadier doesn't even require you put yourself at much risk to do it, you can just stand on the edge of the control radius and lob grenades around corners.  Bring a portable scanner and you can really ruin the enemy's day.

Granted. However, starting at the periphery doesn't mean a mech providing suppressing fire support never moves up. There's a time to push in and a time to hang back. In the absence of a team leader, whose to say when that time is_ Coordinating a push by telling a guy to "move up, we're pushing in" is okay. That is likely to get you recognized by your teammates as trying to provide some leadership and coordination. On the other hand, calling teammates out as dumb @$$ noobs or degrading them or, telling them to uninstall the game--especially when using "CHAT ALL"  accomplishes nothing in the way of productive effort toward winning the game.

caduceus26, on March 10 2014 - 05:05 PM, said:

The Tech's primary role is healing teammates--killing enemies should be secondary.  If the tech is off chasing kills a lot of his teammates are probably dying because he's not available to heal.

This at least is true.  Techs are just healers that can add a little bit of damage on top of their allies' DPS.  I see too many stupid battletechs.

There are as many different ways to play this game as there are people playing. Team composition and coordination is important to a successful effort. Occasionally, a team in a PUG just clicks and that's a lot of fun.  Other times, it takes more effort.  However, the most experienced or knowledgeable player in the game can do more to "kill" team play by being obnoxious to the other players. Strategy and tactics are important but so is courtesy and respect for others.

Edited by caduceus26, March 10 2014 - 07:21 PM.

[WarlordZ]

caduceus26, on March 10 2014 - 07:20 PM, said:

There are as many different ways to play this game as there are people playing. Team composition and coordination is important to a successful effort. Occasionally, a team in a PUG just clicks and that's a lot of fun.  Other times, it takes more effort.  However, the most experienced or knowledgeable player in the game can do more to "kill" team play by being obnoxious to the other players. Strategy and tactics are important but so is courtesy and respect for others.

98% of the time, they won't listen even when told politely to move up.  They won't listen even when the entire team begs them to move up.  They won't get the message no matter what you do, it's like talking to a wall.  After noob #9001 or so, you just give up and realize that being nice to them is pointless.  They don't respond to "nice".

[Beefsweat]

WarlordZ, on March 10 2014 - 07:45 PM, said:

98% of the time, they won't listen even when told politely to move up.  They won't listen even when the entire team begs them to move up.  They won't get the message no matter what you do, it's like talking to a wall.  After noob #9001 or so, you just give up and realize that being nice to them is pointless.  They don't respond to "nice".

100% this, playing public hawken matches is absolutely infuriating because generally nobody tries to even attempt to group up or coordinate or attempt any semblance of strategy or tactic. Many players even actively eschew coordination or strategy and end up dragging the rest of the team down with them. I can't play PvP multiplayer because of how appallingly obstinate and stubborn a majority of average players can be, no matter what some might say losing over and over and over again isn't fun or enjoyable at all and repeatedly losing because of your team's failure to perform the most basic tasks takes the spirit out of you very quickly.

Edited by Beefsweat, March 11 2014 - 12:08 AM.

[caduceus26]

Why play in a match where one has disdain for the people they are playing with_  Better to find a clan and stick to more organized play and eliminate the frustration for everyone.

In actual combat abusing one's squad mates wasn't a good idea as it might land you on someone's frag list.

[caduceus26]

TheFrostnessMonster, on March 10 2014 - 07:14 PM, said:

Is it okay to badmouth strongly advise teammates who refuse to cap AA on Siege and sit in the base instead and shoot rockets and sh*t at the battleship_

I feel ya'.  I've actually had to run around that guy standing in the way as I headed back into the fight. Some players aren't going to respond regardless. Badmouthing Strongly advising won't change that guy.

Edited by caduceus26, March 11 2014 - 04:50 AM.

[space_]

Where the SS shouldbe depends on where ships are at the time.  Enemy ship in the air, every player should be in AA period.  You need to launch missiles quickly then they can return to exterior sniping.  Only your teams ship in the air, SS free to snipe from outside AA as long as the enmy is not shooting missiles.

[Bonegnasher]

I'm overall with WarlordZ on this one. It's hardly a situation unique to this game though. Throughout gamer history, men have growed "We cannot cap the point through that goddamn scope". I don't see any point in being rude though. In fact, I don't see any point in saying anything usually. No point in pissing people off when they're not going to listen, and there's no point in raising your own blood pressure.

[Beefsweat]

caduceus26, on March 11 2014 - 04:40 AM, said:

Why play in a match where one has disdain for the people they are playing with_  Better to find a clan and stick to more organized play and eliminate the frustration for everyone.

In actual combat abusing one's squad mates wasn't a good idea as it might land you on someone's frag list.

Personally I don't have the time to put in for clans or truly organized play, I'm the kind of dude who just likes to pick up hawken for an hour or two and then put it back down when I have precious free time. When nearly every pub PvP game in that hour or two becomes an exercise in futility and frustration, what's the point_ PvE4Lyfe

[caduceus26]

Bonegnasher, on March 11 2014 - 08:30 AM, said:

...Snip...
I don't see any point in being rude though. In fact, I don't see any point in saying anything usually. No point in pissing people off when they're not going to listen, and there's no point in raising your own blood pressure.

Beefsweat, on March 11 2014 - 09:33 AM, said:

...Snip...
When nearly every pub PvP game in that hour or two becomes an exercise in futility and frustration, what's the point_ PvE4Lyfe

Now on these points we truly have agreement.

[SuicideCharlie]

Honestly, being a little polite and courteous goes a long way in games.

I was in a FPS realism unit/clan/whatever for over a decade and operated as the XO for about five or six of those years. The most effective way I found to get others in general to play as a team is to start off politely asking or suggesting things. Tagging specific names to those lines helps a lot. Of course, nothing is guaranteed and there will always be that loner 12 year old who thinks they're 1337-sauce, but whatever.

I try to make a point of saying a few words in Debrief as well. Hawken players, in general, seem eager to engage with others and play together. Usually you just have to get the ball rolling.

[The_Silencer]

Unfortunately, most the times people uses to forget about the magical word -> "Please". I think it opens many doors, don't ya_ In other words .. better to suggest than end up yelling at people..

Edited by The_Silencer, March 14 2014 - 12:57 PM.

[Dew]

caduceus26, on March 10 2014 - 05:05 PM, said:

• It is kinda dumb to yell and cuss at a SS telling him to get in the AA while he is doing what snipers do.  If there are too many snipers on the team, suggest that someone swtch to another mech. Otherwise, let him play his role. No. If you can't CQC and get another body on the AA when you need to cap it, you are ineffective as a Sharpshooter. The Sharpshooter who sits off in the distance and takes potshots at the AA is a worthless teammate.
  
• Likewise, when an Incinerator or Grenadier is raining hell into the AA on Frontline or Origin he is doing what those mechs are good at, laying down suppressing fire to deny the other team easy access to the point if/when they are already outnumbering your team there. That should provide opportunities to rush them while they are trying to avoid the fireballs or grenades coming at them non-stop or as they focus their attention on taking the Incinerator/Grenadier out. Likewise with the Grenadier. If you can't get in the AA and do some damage with a Rev-GL while you help your team cap, you are a worthless teammate. CQC with the Rev-GL is far from impossible.
  
• The Tech's primary role is healing teammates--killing enemies should be secondary.  If the tech is off chasing kills a lot of his teammates are probably dying because he's not available to heal. This is accurate, though. If you EVER redbeam as a tech when there is still someone nearby that you could be healing, you are a worthless tech. The only acceptable time to redbeam is when all your teammates are dead and you have no hope of escape.

[redslion]

Dew, on March 14 2014 - 01:27 PM, said:

caduceus26, on March 10 2014 - 05:05 PM, said:

• It is kinda dumb to yell and cuss at a SS telling him to get in the AA while he is doing what snipers do.  If there are too many snipers on the team, suggest that someone swtch to another mech. Otherwise, let him play his role. No. If you can't CQC and get another body on the AA when you need to cap it, you are ineffective as a Sharpshooter. The Sharpshooter who sits off in the distance and takes potshots at the AA is a worthless teammate.
  
• Likewise, when an Incinerator or Grenadier is raining hell into the AA on Frontline or Origin he is doing what those mechs are good at, laying down suppressing fire to deny the other team easy access to the point if/when they are already outnumbering your team there. That should provide opportunities to rush them while they are trying to avoid the fireballs or grenades coming at them non-stop or as they focus their attention on taking the Incinerator/Grenadier out. Likewise with the Grenadier. If you can't get in the AA and do some damage with a Rev-GL while you help your team cap, you are a worthless teammate. CQC with the Rev-GL is far from impossible.
  
• The Tech's primary role is healing teammates--killing enemies should be secondary.  If the tech is off chasing kills a lot of his teammates are probably dying because he's not available to heal. This is accurate, though. If you EVER redbeam as a tech when there is still someone nearby that you could be healing, you are a worthless tech. The only acceptable time to redbeam is when all your teammates are dead and you have no hope of escape.

Yeah, but if a SS successfully softens enemies so that they die quickly under AA/ are forced to repair, isn't he doing his job_

I mean, rushing AA when you know you are gonna get killed isn't that great either. Even if it's a 6v6, it will soon be a 5v6 in the enemy's favor. Then yeah, a sniper should shoot from distance first, then come closer as the enemies come.

[caduceus26]

Dew, on March 14 2014 - 01:27 PM, said:

caduceus26, on March 10 2014 - 05:05 PM, said:

It is kinda dumb to yell and cuss at a SS telling him to get in the AA while he is doing what snipers do.  If there are too many snipers on the team, suggest that someone switch to another mech. Otherwise, let him play his role. No. If you can't CQC and get another body on the AA when you need to cap it, you are ineffective as a Sharpshooter. The Sharpshooter who sits off in the distance and takes potshots at the AA is a worthless teammate. I've played in games where a SS posted up on a tower became a royal PITA for anyone on our team either rushing or fighting around the AA and within his LOS. Every game is different.  When the team composition is right a SS can be a strong asset to the team,  Other times, not so much. In either case, ragging on the guy isn't going to change much.  If you tell him to get on the point and he doesn't, what then_  Ragging on him or raging about it won't change anything.There is not much one can control in a PUG.Telling a team mate that he is useless doesn't inspire that person to want to listen and be cooperative. AN if he is bringing down the health of opposing mechs or finishing off weakened enemies who are retreating or trying to repair then he is making a valuable contribution to the effort.

• Likewise, when an Incinerator or Grenadier is raining hell into the AA on Frontline or Origin he is doing what those mechs are good at, laying down suppressing fire to deny the other team easy access to the point if/when they are already outnumbering your team there. That should provide opportunities to rush them while they are trying to avoid the fireballs or grenades coming at them non-stop or as they focus their attention on taking the Incinerator/Grenadier out. Likewise with the Grenadier. If you can't get in the AA and do some damage with a Rev-GL while you help your team cap, you are a worthless teammate. CQC with the Rev-GL is far from impossible. Same response as above.
  
• The Tech's primary role is healing teammates--killing enemies should be secondary.  If the tech is off chasing kills a lot of his teammates are probably dying because he's not available to heal. This is accurate, though. If you EVER redbeam as a tech when there is still someone nearby that you could be healing, you are a worthless tech. The only acceptable time to redbeam is when all your teammates are dead and you have no hope of escape.

redslion, on March 14 2014 - 02:28 PM, said:

Dew, on March 14 2014 - 01:27 PM, said:

caduceus26, on March 10 2014 - 05:05 PM, said:

...snippedr.for brevity...

Yeah, but if a SS successfully softens enemies so that they die quickly under AA/ are forced to repair, isn't he doing his job_ Agree.

I mean, rushing AA when you know you are gonna get killed isn't that great either. Even if it's a 6v6, it will soon be a 5v6 in the enemy's favor. Then yeah, a sniper should shoot from distance first, then come closer as the enemies come.