22 replies to this topic

[Sarbus]

The submachine cannon, point-d vulcan, and assault rifle need a dps and effective range nerf. They have very long range, are easy to use, have crazy dps and are very forgiving if you have bad aim. A-mechs are completely useless because of these weapons. I understand that there should be weapons that are good against dodge tactics, but they shouldn't deal upwards of 40+ dps than most other weapons in the game. Since their dps is so high they can beat weapons like the TOW at corner play if they are on B-mechs. It's the reason why every match has 5+ assaults and it's getting annoying. I have never seen assault zergs lose a match.

[BoompigXD]

Rapid Fire weapons are easily countered by the abilty to dodge behind cover, around corners and what not and their only super effective in tight corridors and in open ranges. A player can easily just, launch a TOW rocket, than dodge back behind a corner, wait for the guy to come around, fire another rocket, rinse and repeat until dead.

Learn to counter, learn to dodge carefully, and get gud scrub

[MechCraft]

No. Sustained damage weapons have no burst potential and require the user to maintain line-of-sight. Learn to use cover and dodges to break enemy LoS and you'll be fine.

[Sarbus]

BoompigXD, on March 17 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

Rapid Fire weapons are easily countered by the abilty to dodge behind cover, around corners and what not and their only super effective in tight corridors and in open ranges. A player can easily just, launch a TOW rocket, than dodge back behind a corner, wait for the guy to come around, fire another rocket, rinse and repeat until dead.

Learn to counter, learn to dodge carefully, and get gud scrub

In theory that's how it should work, but it doesn't. If someone with an SMC for example fires at a corner in short bursts then you will get hit when firing your TOW and they will dodge the TOW, so SMC wins. The tactic you mentioned only works against noobs.

Edited by Sarbus, March 17 2014 - 04:12 PM.

[BoompigXD]

Sarbus, on March 17 2014 - 04:10 PM, said:

BoompigXD, on March 17 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

Rapid Fire weapons are easily countered by the abilty to dodge behind cover, around corners and what not and their only super effective in tight corridors and in open ranges. A player can easily just, launch a TOW rocket, than dodge back behind a corner, wait for the guy to come around, fire another rocket, rinse and repeat until dead.

Learn to counter, learn to dodge carefully, and get gud scrub

In theory that's how it should work, but it doesn't. If someone with an SMC for example fires at a corner in short bursts then you will get hit when firing your TOW and they will dodge the TOW, so SMC wins. The tactic you mentioned only works against noobs.

Then flank the bastard and shoot him in the arse

[Stingz]

Sarbus, on March 17 2014 - 04:10 PM, said:

BoompigXD, on March 17 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

Rapid Fire weapons are easily countered by the abilty to dodge behind cover, around corners and what not and their only super effective in tight corridors and in open ranges. A player can easily just, launch a TOW rocket, than dodge back behind a corner, wait for the guy to come around, fire another rocket, rinse and repeat until dead.

Learn to counter, learn to dodge carefully, and get gud scrub

In theory that's how it should work, but it doesn't. If someone with an SMC for example fires at a corner in short bursts then you will get hit when firing your TOW and they will dodge the TOW, so SMC wins. The tactic you mentioned only works against noobs.

Well the tactic i use on noobs is whopping out the SMC/Vulcan Bezerker to mow down mechs that try to out-DPS me.
They just sit there, shooting and hope they can kill me before they explode (they don't).

Keep in mind this only works on opponents that forget Barrage is only 5 seconds.
Proper use of cover really puts a dent in a sustained weapon's DPS, and the CRT has more health available to it.

Edited by Stingz, March 17 2014 - 05:54 PM.

[Sarbus]

Stingz, on March 17 2014 - 05:43 PM, said:

Sarbus, on March 17 2014 - 04:10 PM, said:

BoompigXD, on March 17 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

Rapid Fire weapons are easily countered by the abilty to dodge behind cover, around corners and what not and their only super effective in tight corridors and in open ranges. A player can easily just, launch a TOW rocket, than dodge back behind a corner, wait for the guy to come around, fire another rocket, rinse and repeat until dead.

Learn to counter, learn to dodge carefully, and get gud scrub

In theory that's how it should work, but it doesn't. If someone with an SMC for example fires at a corner in short bursts then you will get hit when firing your TOW and they will dodge the TOW, so SMC wins. The tactic you mentioned only works against noobs.

Well the tactic i use on noobs is whopping out the SMC/Vulcan Bezerker to mow down mechs that try to DPS race me.
You would not believe how fast Vulcan/TOW melt for the 5 seconds Barrage is on.

I know how much dps it is. The point of this thread was to state that it needs a nerf.

[Sarbus]

BoompigXD, on March 17 2014 - 04:56 PM, said:

Sarbus, on March 17 2014 - 04:10 PM, said:

BoompigXD, on March 17 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

Rapid Fire weapons are easily countered by the abilty to dodge behind cover, around corners and what not and their only super effective in tight corridors and in open ranges. A player can easily just, launch a TOW rocket, than dodge back behind a corner, wait for the guy to come around, fire another rocket, rinse and repeat until dead.

Learn to counter, learn to dodge carefully, and get gud scrub

In theory that's how it should work, but it doesn't. If someone with an SMC for example fires at a corner in short bursts then you will get hit when firing your TOW and they will dodge the TOW, so SMC wins. The tactic you mentioned only works against noobs.

Then flank the bastard and shoot him in the arse

Any competent player will know what you're up to. Also, radar scanner. And that doesn't resolve the balance issue of rapid fire weapons.

Edited by Sarbus, March 17 2014 - 05:49 PM.

[Stingz]

Sarbus, on March 17 2014 - 05:46 PM, said:

BoompigXD, on March 17 2014 - 04:56 PM, said:

Then flank the *fuzzy bunny* and shoot him in the arse

Any competent player will know what you're up to. Also, radar scanner. And that doesn't resolve the balance issue of rapid fire weapons.

That's what Radar Scrambler is for. Sustained is definitely powerful this patch, but burst weapons still wreck even harder.

The bigger problem is probably pilots that don't use the free testdrive mechs to keep a match from being CRT vs CRT.

Edited by Stingz, March 17 2014 - 05:58 PM.

[IareDave]

A sustain primary is more beneficial in open areas, whereas burst is more effective when playing around corners. There's a reason every map in this game is filled with cover. Use it to your advantage.

[BoompigXD]

Sarbus, on March 17 2014 - 05:46 PM, said:

BoompigXD, on March 17 2014 - 04:56 PM, said:

Sarbus, on March 17 2014 - 04:10 PM, said:

BoompigXD, on March 17 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

Rapid Fire weapons are easily countered by the abilty to dodge behind cover, around corners and what not and their only super effective in tight corridors and in open ranges. A player can easily just, launch a TOW rocket, than dodge back behind a corner, wait for the guy to come around, fire another rocket, rinse and repeat until dead.

Learn to counter, learn to dodge carefully, and get gud scrub

In theory that's how it should work, but it doesn't. If someone with an SMC for example fires at a corner in short bursts then you will get hit when firing your TOW and they will dodge the TOW, so SMC wins. The tactic you mentioned only works against noobs.

Then flank the bastard and shoot him in the arse

Any competent player will know what you're up to. Also, radar scanner. And that doesn't resolve the balance issue of rapid fire weapons.

Thats why you gotta go fast

[SoldierHobbes11]

Sustained fire weapons only wreck havoc if you're caught out in the open. So don't get caught out in the open. Use cover to your advantage. I can outplay assault mechs easily with just a pillar for cover in just about any mech I use. In the dance of death, you want to the one leading. The only real problem is when that assault mech has friends that want to dance, too... But anyways, generally when you're moving, move from cover to cover to avoid the bullet storm aimed your way. Machine guns can't hit what their pilots can't see after all.

[SirCharlesNorris]

I've seen threads 5x as long that say burst is too OP right now.  A-class has to be evasive pop out and burst a few times, come around an obstacle from the side once, pop over the top, getting overwhelmed_ Run to team and let someone finish for you!!  As a Reaper pilot that is my life.  You can fire both burst at the same time so dodge out, Left Click + Right Click at the the same time and disappear, you don't have to finish every engagement immediately most people won't run from an A-Class they all seem to think they can win.  Finish it as they try to figure out why you didn't pop back out where and when they expected.  I think it's funny to watch someone try to just stand and blast.

[Sarbus]

Stingz, on March 17 2014 - 05:56 PM, said:

Sarbus, on March 17 2014 - 05:46 PM, said:

BoompigXD, on March 17 2014 - 04:56 PM, said:

Then flank the *fuzzy bunny* and shoot him in the arse

Any competent player will know what you're up to. Also, radar scanner. And that doesn't resolve the balance issue of rapid fire weapons.

That's what Radar Scrambler is for. Sustained is definitely powerful this patch, but burst weapons still wreck even harder.

The bigger problem is probably pilots that don't use the free testdrive mechs to keep a match from being CRT vs CRT.

Radar Scrambler doesn't do much if they already know you're trying to take point. It's not like they can't look at their flank. I have only found burst weapons to be useful when getting a surprise ambush on someone, but that's because you are ahead on the hp race which is doable with any weapon, not because burst weapons are great. And burst weapons are terrible for trying to hold or attack the AA in siege or a point in MA since they are mostly short range flak weapons or easily dodged missiles/grenades.

[Sarbus]

BoompigXD, on March 17 2014 - 08:10 PM, said:

Sarbus, on March 17 2014 - 05:46 PM, said:

BoompigXD, on March 17 2014 - 04:56 PM, said:

Sarbus, on March 17 2014 - 04:10 PM, said:

BoompigXD, on March 17 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

Rapid Fire weapons are easily countered by the abilty to dodge behind cover, around corners and what not and their only super effective in tight corridors and in open ranges. A player can easily just, launch a TOW rocket, than dodge back behind a corner, wait for the guy to come around, fire another rocket, rinse and repeat until dead.

Learn to counter, learn to dodge carefully, and get gud scrub

In theory that's how it should work, but it doesn't. If someone with an SMC for example fires at a corner in short bursts then you will get hit when firing your TOW and they will dodge the TOW, so SMC wins. The tactic you mentioned only works against noobs.

Then flank the bastard and shoot him in the arse

Any competent player will know what you're up to. Also, radar scanner. And that doesn't resolve the balance issue of rapid fire weapons.

Thats why you gotta go fast

Going fast is still slower than looking at your flank.

[Sarbus]

SoldierHobbes11, on March 18 2014 - 12:30 AM, said:

Sustained fire weapons only wreck havoc if you're caught out in the open. So don't get caught out in the open. Use cover to your advantage. I can outplay assault mechs easily with just a pillar for cover in just about any mech I use. In the dance of death, you want to the one leading. The only real problem is when that assault mech has friends that want to dance, too... But anyways, generally when you're moving, move from cover to cover to avoid the bullet storm aimed your way. Machine guns can't hit what their pilots can't see after all.

I already explained here why the cover idea counters RFW is wrong.

Sarbus, on March 17 2014 - 04:10 PM, said:

BoompigXD, on March 17 2014 - 03:51 PM, said:

Rapid Fire weapons are easily countered by the abilty to dodge behind cover, around corners and what not and their only super effective in tight corridors and in open ranges. A player can easily just, launch a TOW rocket, than dodge back behind a corner, wait for the guy to come around, fire another rocket, rinse and repeat until dead.

Learn to counter, learn to dodge carefully, and get gud scrub

In theory that's how it should work, but it doesn't. If someone with an SMC for example fires at a corner in short bursts then you will get hit when firing your TOW and they will dodge the TOW, so SMC wins. The tactic you mentioned only works against noobs.

[Sarbus]

SirCharlesNorris, on March 18 2014 - 07:11 AM, said:

I've seen threads 5x as long that say burst is too OP right now.  A-class has to be evasive pop out and burst a few times, come around an obstacle from the side once, pop over the top, getting overwhelmed_ Run to team and let someone finish for you!!  As a Reaper pilot that is my life.  You can fire both burst at the same time so dodge out, Left Click + Right Click at the the same time and disappear, you don't have to finish every engagement immediately most people won't run from an A-Class they all seem to think they can win.  Finish it as they try to figure out why you didn't pop back out where and when they expected.  I think it's funny to watch someone try to just stand and blast.

I already explained here why the cover idea coutners RFW  is wrong. Reaper is ok to do that because you have long range. Scout and infiltrator can't use that tactic(I've explained it in a previous post) and if anyone zergs you, you will most likely die. Corner play is easily countered by hyper aggression which most RFW mechs thrive at.

[Stingz]

Sarbus, on March 18 2014 - 09:45 AM, said:

SirCharlesNorris, on March 18 2014 - 07:11 AM, said:

I've seen threads 5x as long that say burst is too OP right now.  A-class has to be evasive pop out and burst a few times, come around an obstacle from the side once, pop over the top, getting overwhelmed_ Run to team and let someone finish for you!!  As a Reaper pilot that is my life.  You can fire both burst at the same time so dodge out, Left Click + Right Click at the the same time and disappear, you don't have to finish every engagement immediately most people won't run from an A-Class they all seem to think they can win.  Finish it as they try to figure out why you didn't pop back out where and when they expected.  I think it's funny to watch someone try to just stand and blast.

I already explained here why the cover idea coutners RFW  is wrong. Reaper is ok to do that because you have long range. Scout and infiltrator can't use that tactic(I've explained it in a previous post) and if anyone zergs you, you will most likely die. Corner play is easily countered by hyper aggression which most RFW mechs thrive at.

Grenade Launchers love to wreck people trying to rush around cover, Grenadier is especially good at wrecking deathballs.

Vangaurd + Tech can stop a rush quite hard, Incinerator also, Grenadier can just rain hell for teammates to hold the line.

Edited by Stingz, March 18 2014 - 10:05 AM.

[Sarbus]

Stingz, on March 18 2014 - 10:03 AM, said:

Sarbus, on March 18 2014 - 09:45 AM, said:

SirCharlesNorris, on March 18 2014 - 07:11 AM, said:

I've seen threads 5x as long that say burst is too OP right now.  A-class has to be evasive pop out and burst a few times, come around an obstacle from the side once, pop over the top, getting overwhelmed_ Run to team and let someone finish for you!!  As a Reaper pilot that is my life.  You can fire both burst at the same time so dodge out, Left Click + Right Click at the the same time and disappear, you don't have to finish every engagement immediately most people won't run from an A-Class they all seem to think they can win.  Finish it as they try to figure out why you didn't pop back out where and when they expected.  I think it's funny to watch someone try to just stand and blast.

I already explained here why the cover idea coutners RFW  is wrong. Reaper is ok to do that because you have long range. Scout and infiltrator can't use that tactic(I've explained it in a previous post) and if anyone zergs you, you will most likely die. Corner play is easily countered by hyper aggression which most RFW mechs thrive at.

Grenade Launchers love to wreck people trying to rush around cover, Grenadier is especially good at wrecking deathballs.

Vangaurd + Tech can stop a rush quite hard, Incinerator also, Grenadier can just rain hell for teammates to hold the line.

Exactly, you just proved my point. Vanguard and Incinerator have RFWs which are superb. And when I say zerg I don't mean the mindless rush that new players do. Grenade launcher takes 4-5 direct hits to kill a B-mech and has slow reload. Any RFW will deal more than enough dps to kill you first. Grenadier is actually terrible against deathballs unless the deathball is made up of noobs that stand 1 meter away from each other, don't fly, and are in a confined area. And Grenadier will still die to a single Assault/Bruser/CRT with vulcan or SMC.

Edited by Sarbus, March 18 2014 - 10:21 AM.

[Stingz]

Sarbus, on March 18 2014 - 10:15 AM, said:

Exactly, you just proved my point. Vanguard and Incinerator have RFWs which are superb. And when I say zerg I don't mean the mindless rush that new players do. Grenade launcher takes 4-5 direct hits to kill a B-mech and has slow reload. Any RFW will deal more than enough dps to kill you first.

Vanguard Turret mode is somewhere about 50% damage resistance, good luck breaking that.

Grenadier turret mode is extra damage, and it packs 2 Grenade Launchers stock (Rev-GL +GL).
You don't even need line of sight to bounce and hit with grenades(massive splash is a bonus).

DPS only matters if you can hit an opponent for long enough.
Burst is wham there goes 1/3 of your health, and the opponent is already behind cover.

Edited by Stingz, March 18 2014 - 10:26 AM.