27 replies to this topic

[PhasmaFelis]

I've never seen a game mode, in any game, that seems to be as misunderstood by players as Siege. The mode itself is fine, people just don't know how to play it. After my last match, I'm seriously thinking of writing up a HOW TO PLAY SIEGE macro and posting it to chat at the beginning of every match. What should go in it_ I could write a bloody research paper on what not to do in Siege, but I'm not sure I can write a concise paragraph. I'm looking for the absolute bare necessities needed to not suck, ideally covering the game mechanics ("bring EU to your base to launch your battleship") as well as tactics ("GET IN THE AA").

[ReEvolve]

Take a look at this Siege tutorial: https://community.pl...siege-tutorial/ Maybe you get some inspiration.

[Beefsweat]

Siege mode guides already exist.

http://steamcommunit...s/_id=227744049 (recently updated)
http://youtu.be/2cuJMyyna8Q (old gameplay but some stuff is still relevant)

Personally I think hawken needs its own siege-specific tutorial/training mode.

Edited by Beefsweat, March 18 2014 - 07:47 PM.

[WarlordZ]

Beefsweat, on March 18 2014 - 07:46 PM, said:

Personally I think hawken needs its own siege-specific tutorial/training mode.

It needs to include a segment specifically on playing siege as a sniper, as the noob snipers seem to think that when somebody says "EVERYBODY GET ON AA", it doesn't include them.

Also, completing a tutorial for the first time should earn you some hawken credits, and new players should be made aware of that fact in a "can't possibly ignore/dismiss it" manner on their first login.  It would save us a ton of trouble.

[XyXly]

People just do whatever they want.

GET TO AA

and SHOOT THE SHIP and STAY AT AA seems to mean "go look for enemies"

And yes, snipers are the bane of Seige, I don't care what class you are, we aren't winning the game and you aren't getting any kills

Edited by XyXly, March 19 2014 - 06:25 PM.

[Phantasmo]

I'm starting to think people know well enough how to play siege, it's just that taking the AA back is too hard and they enjoy to stay away sniping at the enemy.
And I don't know if there's a reward for winning the game but if there is, it doesn't seem to be compelling enough.

[SteelShark]

I don't think people actually know how to play siege.  When I start shouting at people (in text (cause voice chat is still 100% broken (yet for some reason I can't use my "T" key while typing in the match making mode because I have it bound to talk))) People actually start going on the AA turret.  I don't want to have to do that, but seriously, how else can they learn how siege works.

There's a setting in options that will activate a popup that tells you what to do in siege, and it comes defaulted to OFF.
That's ridiculous, why would a noob who can't even see a huge AA and big square and numbers go looking through their options for one that tells them step by step what to do in siege_  I didn't even know it existed until I was like rank 25 and just found it cause I was looking at other options.

The least you could do is have that option default to on and make the newbies less of a burden.

[Stingz]

XyXly, on March 19 2014 - 06:25 PM, said:

People just do whatever they want.

GET TO AA

and SHOOT THE SHIP and STAY AT AA seems to mean "go look for enemies"

And yes, snipers are the bane of Seige, I don't care what class you are, we aren't winning the game and you aren't getting any kills

Snipers have a use on Frontline to pick off enemies on the AA, it's perfectly lined up with the bridge vantage point.
The problem is when players are trying to keep their K/D instead of helping with objectives.

Edited by Stingz, March 20 2014 - 03:32 PM.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

Stingz, on March 20 2014 - 03:26 PM, said:

Snipers have a use on Frontline to pick off enemies on the AA, it's perfectly lined up with the bridge vantage point.
The problem is when players are trying to keep their K/D instead of helping with objectives.

You may find this controversial, but I'd argue all they do is annoy a good team, until the good team kills them enough to make them change mechs.

[XyXly]

Stingz, on March 20 2014 - 03:26 PM, said:

XyXly, on March 19 2014 - 06:25 PM, said:

People just do whatever they want.

GET TO AA

and SHOOT THE SHIP and STAY AT AA seems to mean "go look for enemies"

And yes, snipers are the bane of Seige, I don't care what class you are, we aren't winning the game and you aren't getting any kills

Snipers have a use on Frontline to pick off enemies on the AA, it's perfectly lined up with the bridge vantage point.
The problem is when players are trying to keep their K/D instead of helping with objectives.

It doesn't mean half the team should be snipers though, and if there's an exception to when you absolutely must not be sniping, is when there is 5 opposition on the AA

[McBonY]

It's true in most shooters i played - team full of snipers is not going to win anything ;]

[Stingz]

XyXly, on March 20 2014 - 09:05 PM, said:

It doesn't mean half the team should be snipers though, and if there's an exception to when you absolutely must not be sniping, is when there is 5 opposition on the AA

It's problem with every game that has long ranged combat, too many Snipers.

[The_Silencer]

Well.. let's cut the chase here for the sake of the performance of many teams right now..

1.- EU time. (Energy units, to harvest Energy in order to deliver it in your base..)
2.- AA time.  (to defend and conquer the Anti-Air structure on the map...)

Let's just understand that well enouch + keep cooperating plus talking during the match for a better performance.

Just an idea though...

[Schmerkin]

I think the game mode is good and the fact that the matches end up being long and deliver a lot of XP and HC is a bonus!  The one thing gets to me, as mentioned by several other posters, is that people don't seem to know how to play.  Other posters have pointed out the game guides available, but I believe the problem is more than knowledgeable gameplay.  Timing is also key, as well as how aggressively you play.

Here are a few problems I've noticed and how to avoid them:

• Keep a close eye on the EU meters for your team and the enemy's.  I can't count the number of times the enemy was less than 100 EU to launch and our team still need over 600.  In this situation the enemy battleship launch is imminent and the team should forego EU collection and squat on the AA site.  This will give your team a distinct edge in controlling the AA once the enemy has launched.  On the flip side I've seen players continue to collect EU when their team is less than 100 EU away.  Watch your teams meter and if it's moving rapidly, someone is dropping off EU.  If the enemy isn’t close to launch in EU, at least some players should squat the AA in anticipation of the team’s launch.
  
• The fastest way to destroy a battleship is with AA.  Only shoot at the enemy ship as a last ditch effort to survive.  If you do not control AA, GET TO THE AA!
  
• Try to avoid launching your battleship if the enemy has launched (especially if they control the AA).  You may have a full tank of EU, but you’d be better serving your team to not deposit it and get to the AA.  It can take as little as 2 successful battleship attacks to wipe out your base.
  
• Be extremely aggressive when attacking or defending the AA.  Standing off and trying to snipe is useless as the AA positions offer great cover.  Try to choose mechs with good close and medium range and push in hard (excellent for the scout).  Force the enemy off the AA at all costs!  Remember, you only need 1 more mech than your enemy has on the AA to begin capture.  The last game I played, my team refused to stand on the AA and tried sniping from afar and we lost, badly.

When I’ve been on teams that followed at least one of these strategies, we’ve been very successful.

[ASneakyFox]

i think the game should have a required training session against ai to unlock siege mode (similiar to how its done in dota2).

the training session should not only cover the basic rules. but also cover some of the common strategies and approaches to the game

some topics that i think should be covered: (feel free to add/ discuss)

- explain the new hud elements
- explain the gameplay flow (collect fuel-launch ship-protect aa)
   - some people dont seem to get why theyd want to control the aa when the enemy has no ship in the air.
   - the overall importance of the aa needs to be explained.
- explain possible team configurations eg leave some on aa/fuel harass while others collect fuel directly (either teach 2-2-2 or 3-3)
- knowing how to guage your ships fuel need.
    - For instance if theres 450 fuel needed to launch. then 2 people returning their fuel will cover that need, any remainder is usually covered by the self fueling of the ship.- everyone else should be doing fuel harassment, fuel protection, or locking down the aa.
   - explain that the ship fuels at 1 fuel per second, unless the other ship is launched
- explain the 3 ways to shoot down a ship
    - controlling the aa
    - counter launching
    - shooting directly
- explain that counter launching and controlling the aa can be used to completely protect your base from damage.
- explain that launching without controlling the AA is futile and a waste of fuel
- explain shooting the ship directly, but also that its generally not worth it unless the ship is at very low health or if your team is unable to counter launch.

i think siege is a truly awesome game mode. and i think it has the chance to be a truly awesome competitive way to play hawken amongst serious hawken fans. but i think the core of the mode needs to be flushed out more in the same way the core of dota 2 is "flushed out". Even total newbies to dota2 can hop on and atleast understand the general strategy of whats going on, i think it would be great if hawken could have that too.

[Schmerkin]

I think by default some hud options are not shown, like the goals in siege.  I had to turn them on manually in settings when I first started.  These should be on by default.

[mittens800]

The other thread that says "learn mech roles" or whatever sums it up pretty good.
It's fine having a sniper/grenadier off AA, that's how they work and they can actually do a pretty great job.

It's when your team is 2 snipers and not very good ones, and another person who only gathers EU, and then the other three going solo that really ruins things.  

While I welcome a tutorial, the fact is there's a great on that is stickied.  It seems like a lot of people just don't care about actually "playing" siege.  Rarely has anyone actually listend to good advice.  Perhaps there can be a "real" siege mode for people that know how to play.

[FirstRaven]

Beefsweat, on March 18 2014 - 07:46 PM, said:

Personally I think hawken needs its own siege-specific tutorial/training mode.

Yes!!! Exactly what Beef said.

Schmerkin, on March 29 2014 - 06:07 AM, said:

  
Try to avoid launching your battleship if the enemy has launched (especially if they control the AA).  You may have a full tank of EU, but you’d be better serving your team to not deposit it and get to the AA.  It can take as little as 2 successful battleship attacks to wipe out your base.

...and what Schmerkin says, only without the "try" DO NOT launch your battleship with the enemy ship in the air.

When someone on your team says "AA" or "aa" in team chat, DROP WHAT YOU ARE DOING and GET TO THE FRIGGIN AA!!!

On the topic of snipers, you only need ONE PER TEAM. If you're not a Great SS/Reaper pilot, let someone who is do that and get in an Assault or Heavy and go flush out the AA.

I've noticed a lot of players, sniper or not, that just don't get in/on the AA- it's not TDM, you have to be *within* the colored perimeter. Standing outside of the colored perimeter does Nothing for your team, unless you're the one Great sniper on your team.

Edited by FirstRaven, March 31 2014 - 04:49 PM.

[BoompigXD]

I stand in front of Sharpshooters when their not on the AA, blocking their view

[KittyMeow]

i second the opinion of a tutorial for siege. they have it for TDM, why not siege too_