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A veteran's look into the Scout and insight for new players


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#1 OmegaNull

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Posted March 19 2014 - 03:44 PM

First off, what qualifies me to delve into this matter_
Over 400 hours of game time (when counting everything prior to the technician update).
Over 200 hours in a scout. Yes, I love my scout.
The rest of the time spent in other mechs. I have played and fought every mech in the game. I know their strengths and weaknesses.

So, I have noticed lately a lot of scrubs and newbies complaining about a certain mech: Scout.

Now, I have looked over and asked, "Why are they complaining about this_". Well, obviously the reason being is that it is fast and it hits like a sledgehammer. However, lets look at this from another point of view:
That of a good scout pilot vs everything else.


Now, you may be asking "But Omega, it is so broken and fast. I cannot hit it!"
Well, lets break things down really quick into negative and positives here:

Positives:
  • Fastest mech in the game
  • Ability regens fuel and gives speed boost of 6 m/s for 5 seconds (_)
  • High burst potential
  • High "effective" health
  • Depending on load-out, can be very strong at distance (medium) or close range
  • Very strong corner-play and flanking ability
  • Very strong in 1v1
  • Best radar in the game - PAY ATTENTION TO YOUR RADAR!
Negatives:
  • Second Lowest health pool in the game
  • Smallest fuel tank in the world
  • Weak when at a distance or faced with mechs that can apply pressure from a distance
  • Small health pool makes it very weak in the open
  • Difficult to use in team setting (when faced with good teams)
  • Small fuel tank (even when ability is used) can be quickly drained
  • Unable to withstand prolonged pressure from extremely agressive enemy
  • Overheats quickly
Now, lets dig into this a bit deeper.

Weapons

Mini-flak - This weapon is one of the highest DPS weapons in the game, however, requires long exposures to be used efficentily. This does not work well when in corner-play or for hit and run tactics. Actually, Mini-flak scout is a very difficult mech to play overall. That is why I have little input here

Flak - This weapon supplies very high burst potential and high damage output. It also gives the scout the ability to fight from behind cover and maintain high maneuverability as only a quickly, well aimed shot is all that is required, however, this also is its weakness next to lack of range. it also has very high heat output.

Heat Cannon - This weapon is scary. VERY scary when put into the right hands. Its AOE (Area of Effect) is very high and allows a pilot to rely on splash damage from indirect hits (or direct hits). It also allows for ranged combat as the heat cannon has a very long effective range (when aimed well). Its variable firing speed also grants it very high DPS ability. However, it is very difficult to use against fly opponents, especially those with air compressor. AOE prevents a pilot from fighting up close (even with fail safe) due to risk of damage from splash (in addition to the TOW). Heat output is also high but manageable.

Mobility

Being the fastest mech in the game also grants it the ability to be high mobile and agile. When this mech is coupled with an air compressor, it is a force to be reckoned with. This also allows for very high speed combat and maneuvering. Coupled with a small hitbox it makes fighting this mech a nightmare.

Health

The scout has the second lowest health in the game but also one of the highest effective health (ability to dodge incoming fire vs health pool). However, with its low health pool, it does not leave a lot of room for error as a single TOW is more than enough to bring it down to half health.

Now, why is the scout so strong_ Its small hitbox + mobility + high damage output and burst potential. It is also a relatively easy mech to get into and use. Though it does fall under: easy to use, difficult to master.

When playing a scout, the key is to always stay moving and trying not to be in the open. If caught in the open, you can do one of the following:
1) Run
2) Fight

In the open you are at a glaring disadvantage. Most mechs such as the Assault, Sharp Shooter, Grenadier, Beserker, Reaper, Predator, CRT, Bruiser, and incinerator are going to have a field day with you. Yes, you are small, fast, and hard to hit, but you don't have any cover to absorb those big blows and peek out from behind. Sustained, applied pressure and constant damage will rip you to shreds. You can move around, dodge, etc, but you have small fuel tank and if you run out of fuel it is game over. If you overheat, there is a likelihood of game over. Mistakes cannot be made. If using a flak cannon, getting in close and moving swiftly is your only key to survival as it is harder to be hit up close when moving quickly.
Moving and dodging incoming fire is the best practice but against multiple enemies the scout melts like snow thrown into a kiln.

Now, if an enemy is able to continue to track you, there is little that can be done other than to try to take them out as fast as possible and landing your shots. Sustained weapons will quickly and efficiently chip away at your armor and if timed right, a pilot can easily hit you with a full tow at the end of your dodging movement, dealing a large amount of damage.


The second best thing to do is to try to retreat, however, you could easily be picked off.

Best option is to try to stick to cover. Come out when needed to hit the enemy and get into a peekaboo deathmatch. Trading blows while hiding. If you are caught in the open, boost and dodge incoming secondaries if possible.  However, with your limited health pool, any long engagements, regardless if in the open or behind cover, will result in death.

You may ask, "Omega, you are painting a picture that the scout is very strong!"
Well, yes I am, however, it is not invincible. The scout has a very limited amount of health and it is easy to take advantage of someone who makes a mistake and vise versa.


Now, how do you take on a scout_
Scouts have some of the best radar in game and easily can see you coming if your boosting. The best option is to try and ambush a scout. Most of the time, a scout will just melt before they can get away and most people will panic and try to run away OR fight. Either is bad move on their part.

When facing a scout, applying constant pressure is key. If they run away, DO NOT CHASE. They can easily wait for you and hit you with a full on attack dealing large amounts of damage. Best option is to try to force their hand and into the open or to attempt and chip away at them when they are corner fighting you. However, they have the upperhand there. Also, be patient. You don't have to fire everything you have at them. Well timed and aimed shots are extremely effective. if your weapons have AOE (Area of Effect), you can use this to great effect.

If caught in the open, apply constant pressure and do not let them out of your sights. ALWAYS keep them in front of you. At the end of a dodge, a scout is vulnerable for a split second, a well aimed direct TOW hit (or if you blow one up near them) will deal a decent amount of damage. Most of the time if you are a B or a C class mech, you can tank a scout's damage and kill them IF you aim and land your shots.

I will edit this over time to apply more insight as I think of it. If anyone else has anything to add, I will gladly modify this post.

TL;DL: To put simply, the scout is a great mech and easy to use, but not forgiving. If you play one and don't have a good mastery of the mechanics within the game, you will die a LOT. There is very little room for error. Those who say scout is strong and you cannot kill one, play it. Tell me how hard it is when you can barely take any damage.

Edited by OmegaNull, May 21 2014 - 07:08 PM.

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Enjoy your Pain and Suffering as I tear Limb from Limb. Prepare to meet your Final End.

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#2 __Iron_Angel__

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Posted March 19 2014 - 03:54 PM

I like it. I don't fly a scout myself, but a lot of scouts I've seen recently could definitely do with reading this. ^_^ It's really informative, I didn't know there were differences in the radar between mechs.
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#3 OmegaNull

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Posted March 19 2014 - 03:56 PM

The scout has a radar of 160m. I think the next closest is like 100 meters, but I forget the mech.

Scootin' and Shootin | Ballin' and Brawlin' | Ragin' and Raidin'

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I am Omega Null. The abyss is my home and your last frontier. Welcome to my lair and become my Prey. As I track your scent through this nether,

my mouth begins to water. Your Demise will be quick and wretched.

Enjoy your Pain and Suffering as I tear Limb from Limb. Prepare to meet your Final End.

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#4 Sylhiri

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Posted March 19 2014 - 03:58 PM

Doesn't the Technician have the lowest health pool in the game_

I think you could cut out all the general A class stuff and get a smaller, tighter list (positive and negative).

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#5 ReEvolve

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Posted March 19 2014 - 05:27 PM

That looks like a good guide. Is there any chance that you copy that ino a Steam guide: http://steamcommunit.../271290/guides/ _ :)

#6 OmegaNull

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Posted March 19 2014 - 06:54 PM

http://steamcommunit...s/_id=240139720

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I am Omega Null. The abyss is my home and your last frontier. Welcome to my lair and become my Prey. As I track your scent through this nether,

my mouth begins to water. Your Demise will be quick and wretched.

Enjoy your Pain and Suffering as I tear Limb from Limb. Prepare to meet your Final End.

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#7 XyXly

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Posted March 20 2014 - 12:35 AM

Looking to buy scout soon, glad I got to read this
Also:

Edited by XyXly, March 20 2014 - 12:39 AM.


#8 Mykinius

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Posted March 20 2014 - 07:44 AM

I love the Scoot so far. I kinda wish the speed boost portion of the ability were a little more obvious (the description should mention it, and there should be a timer on the HUD like with other classes' special abilities).

Combined with the flak cannon, it's great for flanking and surprises because of its large radar and fast walk speed. I find it relatively easy to ambush enemies by detecting them on my radar from a long distance away and using the fast walk speed (but NOT boosting) to approach them without them seeing me on their own radars. Once I pop in and take out one enemy in a group, if noticed by any others, I can zigzag out, into cover, and away.

Edited by Mykinius, March 20 2014 - 07:45 AM.


#9 Phantasmo

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Posted March 21 2014 - 08:08 AM

View PostOmegaNull, on March 19 2014 - 03:44 PM, said:

Blao.

Please, pick a Predator with an EOC Repeater and try to kill some Scouts.
Then please tell me how you did it. I could really use such advice.

#10 GearsTw0

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Posted March 31 2014 - 06:53 PM

Useful, though i disagree with the heat cannon part.  I can't stand that gun.

#11 FirstRaven

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Posted March 31 2014 - 07:04 PM

Notes:

1. As mentioned above- second lowest HP at 320, tech is 315 (yeah, 5 seems nominal, but it's not when you're in a tech)
2. Fastest boost speed.Tech has fastest walking speed, Beserker has fastest air speed.
3. "Easy to use" as long as you're not actually fighting anyone or anything... but sure is Fun!
4. Con- low air dynamics- has a low ceiling/jump height.
5. Clarification- "Overheats quickly" = Do NOT Miss!!! Not even once.
6. Highly recommend Scout for Missile Assault, do Not recommend for TDM until you've mastered it (of course, DM helps you master it).

Qualifications: 39 out of 158 hours of game play have been Scout, second only to Reaper.
Still get my but kicked in the Scout at least half the time.

I could use some assistance with the Heat Cannon; just started trying to use it, and it's quite difficult, though Definitely very, Very effective when used correctly.

Very well written- Thank You!

Edited by FirstRaven, March 31 2014 - 07:20 PM.


#12 OmegaNull

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Posted April 01 2014 - 07:12 AM

View PostFirstRaven, on March 31 2014 - 07:04 PM, said:

Notes:

1. As mentioned above- second lowest HP at 320, tech is 315 (yeah, 5 seems nominal, but it's not when you're in a tech)
2. Fastest boost speed.Tech has fastest walking speed, Beserker has fastest air speed.
3. "Easy to use" as long as you're not actually fighting anyone or anything... but sure is Fun!
4. Con- low air dynamics- has a low ceiling/jump height.
5. Clarification- "Overheats quickly" = Do NOT Miss!!! Not even once.
6. Highly recommend Scout for Missile Assault, do Not recommend for TDM until you've mastered it (of course, DM helps you master it).

Qualifications: 39 out of 158 hours of game play have been Scout, second only to Reaper.
Still get my but kicked in the Scout at least half the time.

I could use some assistance with the Heat Cannon; just started trying to use it, and it's quite difficult, though Definitely very, Very effective when used correctly.

Very well written- Thank You!
Pretty much. Though on MA, I use Brawler. I can hold a point pretty well.

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I am Omega Null. The abyss is my home and your last frontier. Welcome to my lair and become my Prey. As I track your scent through this nether,

my mouth begins to water. Your Demise will be quick and wretched.

Enjoy your Pain and Suffering as I tear Limb from Limb. Prepare to meet your Final End.

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#13 EM1O

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Posted April 01 2014 - 07:40 AM

Since it was the only mech in my garage not ranked up, i decided to mess around with it. Never thought much of the Scout.
GAWD! I've possibly missed over a year of incredible fun!
I should have done this sooner: and you're right about the Heat cannon-- click L+R, L, L+R, L, etc. Devastating. Getting the dodge-boost-dodge zigzag down, then learning enemy dodge timing with splash shots make this a Killer Beast.
Just gotta watch heat load and HP, and Keep Moving!
Good article!
-O

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#14 OmegaNull

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Posted April 01 2014 - 07:57 AM

View PostEM1O, on April 01 2014 - 07:40 AM, said:

Since it was the only mech in my garage not ranked up, i decided to mess around with it. Never thought much of the Scout.
GAWD! I've possibly missed over a year of incredible fun!
I should have done this sooner: and you're right about the Heat cannon-- click L+R, L, L+R, L, etc. Devastating. Getting the dodge-boost-dodge zigzag down, then learning enemy dodge timing with splash shots make this a Killer Beast.
Just gotta watch heat load and HP, and Keep Moving!
Good article!
-O
Thanks, believe though, it can be really hard sometimes. Your a freaking glass cannon and going against something like a Raider that knows what he is doing... it is like swatting a fly. I feel so helpless sometimes (I am looking at you weezl3).

Scootin' and Shootin | Ballin' and Brawlin' | Ragin' and Raidin'

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I am Omega Null. The abyss is my home and your last frontier. Welcome to my lair and become my Prey. As I track your scent through this nether,

my mouth begins to water. Your Demise will be quick and wretched.

Enjoy your Pain and Suffering as I tear Limb from Limb. Prepare to meet your Final End.

Member of Violent Resolution


#15 Phantasmo

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Posted April 01 2014 - 03:33 PM

This thread is a joke.

Scout is way too fast, and way too powerful.
Needs a global nerf.

In fact needs the TOW removed. It just makes no sense that it has the same weaopns as a heavy mech.

What's the point at all in building a heavy mech if light mechs can carry the same weapons_

#16 Silverfire

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Posted April 01 2014 - 03:50 PM

View PostPhantasmo, on April 01 2014 - 03:33 PM, said:

This thread is a joke.

Scout is way too fast, and way too powerful.
Needs a global nerf.

In fact needs the TOW removed. It just makes no sense that it has the same weaopns as a heavy mech.

What's the point at all in building a heavy mech if light mechs can carry the same weapons_

Or you aim and hit the Scout_ It's not that bad, I only ever have trouble hitting a Scout when they're more skilled than me in movement and utilize cover properly, and even then, I can still beat a Scout every now and then.  Nerf the speed of the Scout and there goes pretty much the one thing that helps keep it alive for prolonged periods of time.

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#17 Phantasmo

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Posted April 01 2014 - 04:19 PM

View PostSilverfire, on April 01 2014 - 03:50 PM, said:

View PostPhantasmo, on April 01 2014 - 03:33 PM, said:

This thread is a joke.

Scout is way too fast, and way too powerful.
Needs a global nerf.

In fact needs the TOW removed. It just makes no sense that it has the same weaopns as a heavy mech.

What's the point at all in building a heavy mech if light mechs can carry the same weapons_

Or you aim and hit the Scout_ It's not that bad, I only ever have trouble hitting a Scout when they're more skilled than me in movement and utilize cover properly, and even then, I can still beat a Scout every now and then.  Nerf the speed of the Scout and there goes pretty much the one thing that helps keep it alive for prolonged periods of time.

"More skilled in movement"_
Sorry, I'm playing Hawken here, the only thing I see Scouts doing is just dodging 20 meters every one second rather than 10 meters every 1.4 seconds.
There's not that much skill implied. It's just math.

#18 FirstRaven

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Posted April 01 2014 - 05:53 PM

Phantasmo,

One of the things that caught my eye about this thread in the first place is the author stated his qualifications. I've seen you raging about class A mechs all over the place here in the forums, so if "it's just math" as you said, please state how many hours in Scout or whatever A classes you have played. Do you have any a class mechs leveled up_

When I first started this game, before steam, when the Scout was even more powerful, I got my butt kicked all the time by scouts. So I got one and leveled it all the way up. Dude, you must not be aiming. You can take out a Scout with a single tow and a whispy spring breeze.

I agree; it's all about the math. By the way- two words for you- the first one has four letters and starts with FU- Fuel Conservation. Go ahead and level one up and see for yourself how easy it is to *apply* the math. You'll learn their weaknesses first hand and be a better player in every class.

Cheers!

Edited by FirstRaven, April 01 2014 - 05:59 PM.


#19 EM1O

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Posted April 01 2014 - 05:54 PM

I take it you've not tried to drive one yet.
/@/Phantasmo

Edited by EM1O, April 01 2014 - 05:55 PM.

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#20 Desert_Fox2

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Posted April 01 2014 - 06:44 PM

View PostPhantasmo, on April 01 2014 - 04:19 PM, said:

"More skilled in movement"_
Sorry, I'm playing Hawken here, the only thing I see Scouts doing is just dodging 20 meters every one second rather than 10 meters every 1.4 seconds.
There's not that much skill implied. It's just math.

You are implying that dodges make the Scout more powerful. Just saying but that is the same dodge and cd on the dodge for all A class. At least I am pretty sure that is the case. It seems that you are playing B classes. Depending on the B you shouldn't be having that much trouble in taking down a Scout that is relying on dodges.

You have only been playing since March 7 of this year. It is going to take you some time to be able to learn how to take out a Scout. There is a difference in knowing how to take out a Scout and actually being able to do it. It is converting knowledge into action.

Edited by Desert_Fox2, April 01 2014 - 06:46 PM.





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