60 replies to this topic

[Aindreas]

After skimming through the forum, I've come across several topics covering the Predator. Now, before I dive into my own topic, I just wanna let you guys know that I'm new to the game. Not complete freshman though, as I have purchased several other mechs so I can actually get a sense of different play styles.

Okay. Let's jump to the main point: Is Predator the hunter or the hunted_
IMHO, Predator seriously needs a buff. Yes, you might as well have heard this elsewhere. However, I'm gonna go into details why a buff is desperately needed.
As a "defensive" player, I always seek the play style that suits me. Predator sounds cool to me. You know, all those cloaking and shoving spikes up arses. However, Predator is a complete failure to my expectation of a being a sneaky bastard. Why_

1. Stalker Mode: is not "perfected." Of course, if it was perfected then I would not be writing this topic. However, I feel that the Predator's special ability could have been done better. The shimmer while cloaking is too visible, and you get even more visible while moving, not to mention how vulnerable you are despite still being cloaked.
2. Weapons: are ridiculously useless to the hands of an ambush vehicle. Take Infiltrator for example. It has Assault Rifle and Grenade Launcher that can deal tons of damage and can finish of a full health medium mech from behind fairly easily, whereas Predator's charged Breacher can only damage a light mech which ends up running away. If the target you're picking on is already damaged then it's easy to finish him off, but that's not always the case.
3. Movement: doesn't fit ambush style. To keep being cloaked, Predator must not boost. Even dodging would break the effect. If you want to ambush someone, you have to be a little bit more versatile to out-move the opponent. Chasing a damaged enemy is a super tough job for a cloaked Predator, and by the time you reach him, he has already healed up. This drives us back to problem number 1.

Despite all those problems, only small modifications are needed. I think:

1. You should be able to withstand a certain amount of damage before being knocked off Stalker mode, OR reduce the distortion of the cloaking effect. The former sounds more okay to me, since you are already slow moving while cloaked and Infiltrator would not be nerfed if the latter was more appealing to you guys. Infiltrator is able to keep its Camouflage ability even if it's hit in exchange for run-up fuel. So, Predator should be able to keep its Stalker mode (within damage threshold) in exchange for speed, and by speed I mean not boosting, not dodging, and not flying. Fair enough.
2. All Predator's weapons, except EOC Repeater, should has higher RoF. I'm pretty sure Predator pilots know why. Also, EOC Predator should enable proximity function. Yes, mines from EOC Predator do have proximity, only if they are mines. While in midair, they don't, sadly. Sometimes you might run into a CQC scenario, and with Breacher as well as T32-Bolt doing kitty scratches because of their relatively low RoF, EOC Predator wouldn't make your teammates and yourself any happier. Let's face it: if you shoot mines on the ground, your enemies just might as well flank you from above. Aerial fighting is not a rare sight these days, keep that in mind. So, if only projectiles from EOC Predator could be detonated proximately in midair then it would help a lot, since a single projectile doesn't do much damage.
3. With problem number 1 solved, any solution for problem number 3 is not necessary. If you buff this thing, nerf that thing.

And... That's all I have to say. I really hope Predator would be modified in the future. The idea behind Predator is awesome, but lacks potential. While Infiltrator is assassin type with hit-and-run tactics, Predator is ambush style designed to finish off wounded preys. I kinda feel like the two should switch their arsenals, but I'm just saying *lol*. So, what's your opinion on how Predator should be changed_

[EliteShooter]

That's the pred, but he might get attacked by sharks and he can't do much about it.

[caduceus26]

As one who has been ganked by some good Predator pilots I'm not so sure. A predator can be a sneaky b@$t@rd.  A flanking Pred can be a nightmare on some maps. When cloaked and standing still they can be very difficult to spot. I've boosted right past them without realizing it until they moved. When I hear that sound of traps being laid if I don't know already, I take to quick peek at the teams to see if he's with us or them. Predators concern me more than Infiltrators!

I don't disagree that the Pred could use a little work--but not too much!

[Telamoont]

I couldn't agree more!
Predator definetely is not a hunter. He is more like a coward basically designed to kill hurt targets.
He seriously need a rework based on the theme proposal (Predator).
Change T-Bolt for Heat Cannon will be a nice begining.

[Aregon]

Predator is a mech created for those times when most of the players in your team is not able to finish of the enemy.

​It is a situational mech that should not be mained under normal fights. It does exactly what is supposed to do, being a hard mech to play with a high learning-curve that can devastate when you least expect it.

[Aindreas]

caduceus26, on March 26 2014 - 04:54 AM, said:

As one who has been ganked by some good Predator pilots I'm not so sure. A predator can be a sneaky b@$t@rd.  A flanking Pred can be a nightmare on some maps. When cloaked and standing still they can be very difficult to spot. I've boosted right past them without realizing it until they moved. When I hear that sound of traps being laid if I don't know already, I take to quick peek at the teams to see if he's with us or them. Predators concern me more than Infiltrators!

I don't disagree that the Pred could use a little work--but not too much!

We all wanted a change more or less. I personally don't wanna see too many changes about Predator because it would be unbalanced.

Telamoont, on March 26 2014 - 05:40 AM, said:

I couldn't agree more!
Predator definetely is not a hunter. He is more like a coward basically designed to kill hurt targets.
He seriously need a rework based on the theme proposal (Predator).
Change T-Bolt for Heat Cannon will be a nice begining.

Aregon, on March 26 2014 - 06:44 AM, said:

Predator is a mech created for those times when most of the players in your team is not able to finish of the enemy.

​It is a situational mech that should not be mained under normal fights. It does exactly what is supposed to do, being a hard mech to play with a high learning-curve that can devastate when you least expect it.

That's where the name Predator comes from,  isn't it_ I do manage to get some kills out of wounded preys, but most of the time they just simply run away or turn back and finish me off instead. I feel as if I'm playing Infiltrator at some point. The play style behind Predator is so wrong with its current loadout and arsenals.

[P3ntatonix3d]

Im using it for more of the "fun" side of hawken mechs, except for those mechs with HELLFIRE MISSILES like the ROCKETEER that LOCKON even when in cloak. and the scouts, who thought it would be a good idea to put a FLAK on a fast mech. Most scouts I find just easily dodges every attack no matter what mech i use, then when i run away, he chases, I run out of fuel, and if he does he has "reserves" so he can continue to chase me down.
Also a good tip i discovered when playing in the training mode with predator is to spam the eoc predator.Just hold the right mouse button while tapping the left button. this helps with the low RoF of the breacher but beware the overheating.
For the cloak, I just turn invisible stick with my team, far enough to not get shot, then go around the enemy and flank their ass while their distracted. Also when fighting a dodging mech, place eoc mines on the ground, I've got many kill with that tactic. I know more because I'm a rank 6 predator with all weapons.
Ohh, another thing is that "Failsafe" Internals is a MUST

Edited by P3ntatonix3d, March 26 2014 - 09:09 AM.

[Lightangel112]

The failsafe internal is not an absolute must have, deflector is.

[Telamoont]

I think the Hawken predator is strongly inspired by the movie one.
The diference between them is the poor arsenal of mech pred.

Just to refresh the idea...

[Phantasmo]

The model does look like hte movie Predator.
Actual gameplay though is quite far from it.

[IroncladLion]

I have got a few things to say about the Predator.

1. It's ability is NOT the problem. In fact I love the Predator ability and think it's rather balanced.

2. Its weapons are laughably underpowered. The T32 buff is nice, but the breacher needs some serious tweaking. And the EOC repeater... Don't even get me started. The weapons has 0 synergy.

3. Just because some really experienced players manage to get a few kills with it and end half way up the scoreboard does NOT make the Predator balanced. Seriously. Get this right. All mechs are supposed to be balanced and have their niche. This mech has NO place being on the battlefield currently and is mostly just a fun toy for experienced players to kill newbies with while those same newbie struggle desperately to play it.

I agree with most everything the OP said, honestly it needs some tweaks. Sitting on your butt waiting for someone to walk through your minefield is NOT being a Predator, it's being:

EliteShooter, on March 26 2014 - 04:21 AM, said:

[Aindreas]

IroncladLion, on March 26 2014 - 04:09 PM, said:

I agree with most everything the OP said, honestly it needs some tweaks. Sitting on your butt waiting for someone to walk through your minefield is NOT being a Predator, it's being:

EliteShooter, on March 26 2014 - 04:21 AM, said:

I absolutely agree. But no one is to blame though. Predator is a new mech introduced in the last patch, so it inevitably needs more work.

[Telamoont]

Yeah, there is no problem on skill. I think its balanced. The question truly is: The poor arsenal combinations.

[Aindreas]

Telamoont, on March 26 2014 - 06:03 PM, said:

Yeah, there is no problem on skill. I think its balanced. The question truly is: The poor arsenal combinations.

I'd love to hear your combination of choice.
Personally, I would replace the Breacher with a weapon that deals splash/AoE damage instead of an automatic rifle since Predator is designed for ambush, not assault.

[IroncladLion]

Aindreas, on March 26 2014 - 07:02 PM, said:

Telamoont, on March 26 2014 - 06:03 PM, said:

Yeah, there is no problem on skill. I think its balanced. The question truly is: The poor arsenal combinations.

I'd love to hear your combination of choice.
Personally, I would replace the Breacher with a weapon that deals splash/AoE damage instead of an automatic rifle since Predator is designed for ambush, not assault.

I like the IDEA of the breacher, with the whole shotgun -> railgun concept with charge. But lawd it was poorly executed. And the EOC repeater is kinda cool, but I think it could use some adjustments also.

My ideas for weapon changes (not all together but maybe a one or two of them for each weapon):

BREACHER:
- lame change: increase damage 10% (don't like this idea)
- The nail thing is weird (in my opinion), I think it'd be way more awesome to have it be a more energy type weapon. Like a true railgun infused with glowly bits. With effects on it such as the Redox on the Tech. It'd still have the dual shotgun / charged rail shot, just look different. Because honestly, the most high-tech mech with heat vision and stealth and this thing is armed with a NAIL GUN_ WHY__

- Make the Charged shot 'mark' the target for future damage, this would play into the idea of being a 'Predator / Hunter' and provide some utility for getting a higher score. The mark could:
1) Reveal the enemy on the map for the next 5-10 seconds (balance accordingly) for all allies, making this a weapon nice for tracking down enemies.
2) Make future damage deal 5-10% more from all sources (similar to redox but does not stack)
3) Fuzz the enemies vision for .5 seconds each shot that connects (or lower for balance)
4) Make each shot also burn a portion of the enemies fuel
5) (Personal favorite idea) Reduce hit enemies speed by 25% for 10 seconds (catch the scout)
And the mark could only be applied to one enemy at a time, for balance reasons of course.

EOC PREDATOR:
- This thing just needs some changing. The idea is cool, but something needs to change.
- For simplicity, just increase the fire rate. I mean honestly spending 10 seconds to lay one mine field that someone may never step on is really stupid.
- Rather than make it a painfully slow full-auto thing... Make it a fast firing, semi-auto mine laying device, with a chargeable shotgun mine shot. These shotgun mines would generate a LOT of heat and have a very long cool down period before firing any more mines (balance). It could also have a large spread to prevent cheap shots.
- Make the ability to detonate the mines in mid-air PLEASE. Especially if the shotgun mine is added, would make the weapon very capable.

That's all I got for now. Probably going to make my own suggestion thread for the Predator. I love it, but it needs some changing.

[Aindreas]

I like your changes on the weapons. But how about Predator's movement_ Is it too slow for a hunter_ The ability to dodge, dash, and fly is useless while cloaked, and that only decreases Predator's full potential. I think Predator should be able to dodge, dash, and fly while cloaked, but with a drawback: it can only walk after being knocked out of Stalker mode. Just like a cheetah.

[Phantasmo]

He he, one of the few things I like of the Breacher is the fact it's a nail gun and not an energy weapon: the missiles leaves no fancy trail that can give away your location.

On the other hand, I agree with what you said about the EOC P: it takes forever to lay a decent minefield.

Edited by Phantasmo, March 26 2014 - 10:55 PM.

[Telamoont]

Aindreas, on March 26 2014 - 07:02 PM, said:

I'd love to hear your combination of choice.
Personally, I would replace the Breacher with a weapon that deals splash/AoE damage instead of an automatic rifle since Predator is designed for ambush, not assault.

For me breacher is ok, but maybe mini flak cannon would be better.
Instead t32-bolt a heat cannon can suit perfectly (Includes the theme).
EOC-Repeater is ok, At this point my suggestion is visionary. The prestige weapon could be a melee weapon. In reference of predator hunter theme, a tech spear that can make a melee stab on charge or a claw with same stab feature.

[Bazookagofer]

I think if they buffed the predator that it can lay 3 P EOC mines at a time and maybe if those mines were not able to be seen (no flashy red lights) and if the mines were no blown up by an assualt rifle skimming over em THAN MAYBE JUST MAYBE IT MIGHT BE GOOD. Over all i was expecting a mech that gets a bonus damage for attack from stealth but that gets like 35% damage penalty not in cloak.

[Madman01]

personally I would like to see the EOC predator mines have proxy or manual airburst, be fired like the EOC repeater (maybe fewer pucks, 2 and 4 fully charged) i like the EOC repeater on it but the T32 is a waste of HC, maybe a HEAT cannon, REV-GL or slug rifle would be better.(for burst damage, area denial nades shouldn't detonate own mines for this and mid-long range fighting respectively depending on how you play) also railgun instead of breacher_  medium ROF and bust with a charge and/or projectile penetration through targets or if you want it to be OP have it penetrate everything.