64 replies to this topic

[SleepingEntity]

I've always thought a good compromise would be too have an "inventory" of sorts. Basically, if you buy one spare "malk chassis" (for example), you can equip it on one mech AT A TIME, but after a game you can go and move it around. If you buy another, you can have two at any time. Of course, every mech will always have its normal parts (and elite parts) completely separate from the "spare" parts.

Although I'm not too fussed about mech parts. What I really want is this system for repair drones and thrusters. I'm finding it really hard to justify forking out money for a shiny repair drone and thruster for EVERY mech I like.

[Odinous]

its already a F2P game,and you want everything in it universal_how the hell devs gonna be paid_honestly correct me if i am wrong,but unless you are a kid in high school,you got to know that for us its a game,for some people its work and they must get paid..So NO for the universal parts,the camo already is!

Edited by Odinous, May 04 2014 - 03:22 AM.

[Meraple]

Please don't be greedy, we already have universal camos.
And like Odinous said, how else are the Devs supposed to make money_

[Vdragon]

why even, why would be the point to even have MC_

[teeth_03]

They can make money by making universal Items and Internals MC only, while mech specific ones are HC and a lower priced MC option.

Its literally Thousands of dollars to purchase every Item and Internal for every mech, that my friends is greedy. Give me a universal option that is a more down to earth price and I will pay for the universal option.

Quite frankly, this game would have been better as a $60 retail game, buy once and unlock everything through leveling. I have already gave them this much money with mechs, weapons and camos. I would like to give them a little more money, but only if that money goes far. A new mech and early weapon unlocks gets me a decent amount of worth, but I'm not giving them money for a Grenade that only fits on 1 mech. But if I can equip that Grenade to any mech, then it makes the purchase well worth it.

[HadronVictorioso]

teeth_03, on May 04 2014 - 10:40 AM, said:

They can make money by making universal Items and Internals MC only, while mech specific ones are HC and a lower priced MC option.

Its literally Thousands of dollars to purchase every Item and Internal for every mech, that my friends is greedy. Give me a universal option that is a more down to earth price and I will pay for the universal option.

Quite frankly, this game would have been better as a $60 retail game, buy once and unlock everything through leveling. I have already gave them this much money with mechs, weapons and camos. I would like to give them a little more money, but only if that money goes far. A new mech and early weapon unlocks gets me a decent amount of worth, but I'm not giving them money for a Grenade that only fits on 1 mech. But if I can equip that Grenade to any mech, then it makes the purchase well worth it.

All true, and I agree with you.

[LuxAngel7]

Odinous, on May 04 2014 - 03:21 AM, said:

its already a F2P game,and you want everything in it universal_how the hell devs gonna be paid_honestly correct me if i am wrong,but unless you are a kid in high school,you got to know that for us its a game,for some people its work and they must get paid..So NO for the universal parts,the camo already is!

It would be nice if you wouldn't make such a blanket statement. It's obvious that I am not saying the devs should not make money, I'm actually suggesting a way for them to make more money. And if you read my OP, you should know I'm not in high school...are you trying to be offensive_ :

It is possible to be a F2P game that makes LOTS of money even though you have universally applicable items. An example of this is Warframe.

As a concept, my request or suggestion is good for many reasons, but to address your specific issue, there is no need to assume that they don't make money just because they apply such a model.

The difference in models means that instead of hoping that people will spend a few hundred dollars just to get the specific parts that they want, they'll be having people spend a few hundred dollars to get ALL the parts. Volume vs. Pricing

I bought 24$ (discount weekend) of MC, and I was recently looking to customize my Technician, and man did it look sweet. But then I realized that I had to spend almost half of all my MC just to get those specific parts. So I didn't buy anything , as I felt like buying thos parts might make me feel like I'd rather spend it on other parts later and regret it.

So after spending 30$ (discounted to 24) I have the choice of fully customizing a whopping two mechs once. I've only played this game for a week or two, and I already have like 6 mechs. So as someone else said, I'm supposed to spend over thousands to unlock the current amount of options_ Sorry, no way that's ever going to happen.

And let's be honest, although I think that this game is great and has great things ahead of it, currently there is a really really low amount of customization options. Where are the elite versions of all the customization parts for us to buy_ How can I make my mechs not look like they're busted up and have been resold 5 times before getting to me_ Why can you not paint elite parts_ Only 5-7 parts per mech section_ Why can't I paint my repair module or weapons_

When you put the low amount of customization options next to the fact that buying an item is locked to that specific mech, the resulting picture is one where the Devs are losing money, that they could be making.

Edited by LuxAngel7, May 08 2014 - 08:35 PM.

[MechFighter5e3bf9]

And i like unlocking/tinkering/ tuning stuff it breaks monotony all bare bones shooters eventually give me.

[LuxAngel7]

Edited OP

[Abanomex]

NO, camos are universal, also thrusters and repair drones, thats enough, if you want to deeply customize, pay for it.

the devs deserve every bit of purchases.

[ticklemyiguana]

First, Lux, check the attitude. Not that other people don't have one occasionally, but it's your thread and responding in kind makes people not care about your argument.

teeth_03, on May 04 2014 - 10:40 AM, said:

They can make money by making universal Items and Internals MC only, while mech specific ones are HC and a lower priced MC option.

Responding to this. No. No. No. And I hate people who just enter a thread to say "No" and leave nepecaka I"m looking at you so here's the reasoning. That's pay to win. I don't care about the universal items, because those already are MC only. Only universal items so far are paints, repair bots, and thrusters, and those are pure cosmetics. Internals have a very large effect on the game. For the kiting scout, a deflector is 20% more health. For the berserker, (and any other mech) the AC is a variety of advantages. So, no to charging MC only for internals, items, or anything else that affects the game. I'm ok with you being able to purchase them early, because the grind isn't awful, and inexperienced pilots who purchase new mechs or weapons early generally can't use them very well, and by the time they can, they're just as deadly in their CRTs.

As for the original intent of the thread, I'm also pretty against it. It doesn't have to do with any specific lore or ability to swap an item on or off (though I might be ok with there being a purchased chassis inventory that you can swap onto different mechs one at a time outside of a game, as has been suggested) but flat out universal not only doesn't make much sense from a lore or reality standpoint, chassis are pretty big purchases, and they should feel that way. It may be the case that not enough people are buying them for them to make much profit, which is unfortunate, and if the devs will them to be universal for those reasons, then that's ok, though again, unfortunate.
Simply requesting they be universal because you don't want to spend money on every mech is a little selfish. It is free to pay, and many people pay to set themselves apart from other players cosmetics wise. I wouldn't appreciate seeing that last stretch of ground swept out from under the feet of higher paying customers.

Hawken is dying right now. It's a game we all play, and the large majority of us enjoy, not only because it's a great game, but because it has a tight knit community of players that we enjoy playing with. Please put aside the fact that it would be "nice" to pay less for things that you in no way need to be competitive at this game. Without your contributions, Hawken is gone. The devs do a terrific job of listening to the community, maintaining a balanced game through a variety of updates, and keeping everything running despite the trickle of income that we provide.

[LONEDEADWOLF]

LuxAngel7, on April 30 2014 - 08:47 PM, said:

Silverfire, on April 30 2014 - 08:35 PM, said:

Universal_ Well it doesn't even make sense to me.  You bought 1 chassis/repair drone, so you equip it on one mech.  How exactly will that transfer to another mech if you only have one_ Paint jobs make sense because you can buy a thousand cans of paint and decorate your mech to your fancy because you just have so much damn paint, but universal mech parts_ I don't know.

/devil'sadvocate

Ok you just gave me a big headache.

So your argument as a devil's advocate is that in your view the in game lore is that we have specific pieces for each mech_ And that if I buy a drone for one mech then there's only one so it can't be used on the other mech, even though the mech you bought it for isn't being used___

Dude....just....dude.

Ok how about this:

Don't worry yourself, because you see those guys in your main menu_ The ones fidgeting around your mech_ They're paid to unequip and re-equip whatever you want on whatever mech you want.

....thousands of paint cans...honestly...good grief.

LMAO ...this

[LuxAngel7]

ticklemyiguana, on May 09 2014 - 04:04 PM, said:

First, Lux, check the attitude. Not that other people don't have one occasionally, but it's your thread and responding in kind makes people not care about your argument.

teeth_03, on May 04 2014 - 10:40 AM, said:

They can make money by making universal Items and Internals MC only, while mech specific ones are HC and a lower priced MC option.

Responding to this. No. No. No. And I hate people who just enter a thread to say "No" and leave nepecaka I"m looking at you so here's the reasoning. That's pay to win. I don't care about the universal items, because those already are MC only. Only universal items so far are paints, repair bots, and thrusters, and those are pure cosmetics. Internals have a very large effect on the game. For the kiting scout, a deflector is 20% more health. For the berserker, (and any other mech) the AC is a variety of advantages. So, no to charging MC only for internals, items, or anything else that affects the game. I'm ok with you being able to purchase them early, because the grind isn't awful, and inexperienced pilots who purchase new mechs or weapons early generally can't use them very well, and by the time they can, they're just as deadly in their CRTs.

As for the original intent of the thread, I'm also pretty against it. It doesn't have to do with any specific lore or ability to swap an item on or off (though I might be ok with there being a purchased chassis inventory that you can swap onto different mechs one at a time outside of a game, as has been suggested) but flat out universal not only doesn't make much sense from a lore or reality standpoint, chassis are pretty big purchases, and they should feel that way. It may be the case that not enough people are buying them for them to make much profit, which is unfortunate, and if the devs will them to be universal for those reasons, then that's ok, though again, unfortunate.
Simply requesting they be universal because you don't want to spend money on every mech is a little selfish. It is free to pay, and many people pay to set themselves apart from other players cosmetics wise. I wouldn't appreciate seeing that last stretch of ground swept out from under the feet of higher paying customers.

Hawken is dying right now. It's a game we all play, and the large majority of us enjoy, not only because it's a great game, but because it has a tight knit community of players that we enjoy playing with. Please put aside the fact that it would be "nice" to pay less for things that you in no way need to be competitive at this game. Without your contributions, Hawken is gone. The devs do a terrific job of listening to the community, maintaining a balanced game through a variety of updates, and keeping everything running despite the trickle of income that we provide.

I don't know what kind of response you expect to get with your comment. So all I'll say is that you should really town down the moral superiority complex you got going before you tell complete strangers to "check their attitude" as if you're their elementary school teacher. I responded to a person who even admitted he was trolling, and continuing to bring it up serves no purpose other than to entice an argument and try to make yourself feel superior.

Your entire argument is completely backwards. My entire post was about encouraging the devs to make MORE money, not less. Accomplishing that through volume instead of pricing, like a lot of other successful F2P games do.

Chassis are "heavy"_ And all the rest about lore_ Dude, you're delusional. This is about making money, and guess what_ Charging multiple times for the same digital item instead of focusing on creating new digitial items to buy once and never again is not the way to achieve financial success.

Today I bought a bunch of stuff, among which a few parts for my technician. Then I unlocked another light mech, and instead of thinking "hey maybe I could buy some other new parts for that too!" I immediately thought "wow I have to rebuy the same parts I just got 10 minutes ago_ lol no thanks"

It's a simple matter of economics and marketing. Really one of the most basic lessons you can learn in any economics course really. And you trying to twist my words into me somehow wanting this game to be P2W or "having an attitude" is a red herring, and honestly kind of pathetic.

But the most surprising thing is that you yourself say that the game is having "trouble" (or dying as you put it) and just like with any business, if you're opinion is just to keep on going without making any changes and expect things to get better...

....

well then I have some Blockbuster Video stock I'd love to sell to you...

Edited by LuxAngel7, May 09 2014 - 09:03 PM.

[ticklemyiguana]

And, well, that's why I'm not actually reading your post. Enjoy.

[SoldierHobbes11]

After reading this, the only thing I really got from it is that you don't want any more cash leaving your wallet. If you don't want to repurchase chasis parts, then don't. The Devs are going to do what they feel is best for the game, in the end. It's their game after all, and they've already given us something that should've cost us to play in the first place for free. That's already nicer than the EA evil empire.

[ROSING]

SoldierHobbes11, on May 09 2014 - 09:33 PM, said:

After reading this, the only thing I really got from it is that you don't want any more cash leaving your wallet. If you don't want to repurchase chasis parts, then don't. The Devs are going to do what they feel is best for the game, in the end. It's their game after all, and they've already given us something that should've cost us to play in the first place for free. That's already nicer than the EA evil empire.

With all due respect, I feel that these arguments aren't considering what Lux (and my argument) are actually saying. You're right, if I don't feel like repurchasing the chassis for another mech, then I won't. However, have you considered that if I could equip it with multiple mechs I'd feel like not repurchasing that chassis but another chassis because I can equip it on more things_

Please read this out, I hope I can summarize our argument as succinctly as possible:

TL;DR:We believe mech parts should be universal to increase (not decrease!) sales. If you're scratching your head why, scroll back up to either my previous post or one of the many that Lux posted.

Edited by ROSING, May 10 2014 - 12:25 AM.

[ticklemyiguana]

ROSING, on May 10 2014 - 12:24 AM, said:

SoldierHobbes11, on May 09 2014 - 09:33 PM, said:

After reading this, the only thing I really got from it is that you don't want any more cash leaving your wallet. If you don't want to repurchase chasis parts, then don't. The Devs are going to do what they feel is best for the game, in the end. It's their game after all, and they've already given us something that should've cost us to play in the first place for free. That's already nicer than the EA evil empire.

With all due respect, I feel that these arguments aren't considering what Lux (and my argument) are actually saying. You're right, if I don't feel like repurchasing the chassis for another mech, then I won't. However, have you considered that if I could equip it with multiple mechs I'd feel like not repurchasing that chassis but another chassis because I can equip it on more things_

Please read this out, I hope I can summarize our argument as succinctly as possible:

TL;DR:We believe mech parts should be universal to increase (not decrease!) sales. If you're scratching your head why, scroll back up to either my previous post or one of the many that Lux posted.

This is of course possible, but if that's the sole purpose of this thread-something that gets lost in many of the original poster's words, there is no purpose to the thread. A single person's (or two or three people's) opinion at the moment that they post this is not the data that anyone is collecting in order to make these decisions. I've had many a moment where I bought one or two things and then I thought "ok, that's enough. I wish this transferred to other mechs." but lo and behold I sold a couple items on steam, had a little extra money, and all of the sudden I buy a few more things that I wouldn't have if the parts were universal. Of course, my particular experience is only one data point, just like yours and Lux's and everyone elses, but the devs already have that information. And they have it with pure numbers, no one touting their e-peens on the forums to muddle it up.

In the end this is just a "Hey, look at this new idea" thread. Except, it's not new in any way shape or form, and has been considered not only by the community, but by the devs hundreds of times. If the publishers decide that monetarily this is the right course of action, and they have every right to consider that, then they will do it, as they did with the camos and repair bots. My personal opinion is that the chassis parts should remain limited to one mech on purchase at least until several more options are available, but that may or may not reflect the data that none of us have.

tl,dr: Some are against or for it on personal reasons, others are for it because they claim some sort of economic knowledge that the devs and publishers somehow don't possess, and others still are for it because of their own wallets, but it doesn't matter because none of us have the appropriate information to make the call.

[LuxAngel7]

ticklemyiguana, on May 09 2014 - 09:07 PM, said:

And, well, that's why I'm not actually reading your post. Enjoy.

Avoiding the conversation in the name of your perceived moral superiority does nothing but to emulate a sandbox attitude of "I'm going home and taking my toys with me" except with different words. I tried to explain to you why what I'm saying is for the devs to make MORE money, and since you don't have even a marginally valid argument to put forward you choose this route instead. Enjoy_ Enjoy what_ What are you even talking about_ You're trying to make things personal when all I'm talking about is an idea and suggestion for the devs to make more money and treat their fans better at the same time.

SoldierHobbes11, on May 09 2014 - 09:33 PM, said:

After reading this, the only thing I really got from it is that you don't want any more cash leaving your wallet. If you don't want to repurchase chasis parts, then don't. The Devs are going to do what they feel is best for the game, in the end. It's their game after all, and they've already given us something that should've cost us to play in the first place for free. That's already nicer than the EA evil empire.

You obviously didn't read my first post. And if you did, you should reread it, as you missed the part where I explicitly say that I WANT to THROW money at them, but because I am getting new and exciting digital items that I get to have fun with as I see fit. Instead of buying the "digital rights" to a digital item for one particular character/mech.

I'm not disputing that it's their game nor am I espousing a lack of gratitude or anything of the sort. I am asking for them to make a course correction, much like what they've already done with paints,camos, thrusters and drones, in order to incentivize not only me, but all the new players that will come to the game and get turned off at the prospect of buying new mech pieces.

ticklemyiguana, on May 10 2014 - 01:55 AM, said:

ROSING, on May 10 2014 - 12:24 AM, said:

SoldierHobbes11, on May 09 2014 - 09:33 PM, said:

After reading this, the only thing I really got from it is that you don't want any more cash leaving your wallet. If you don't want to repurchase chasis parts, then don't. The Devs are going to do what they feel is best for the game, in the end. It's their game after all, and they've already given us something that should've cost us to play in the first place for free. That's already nicer than the EA evil empire.

With all due respect, I feel that these arguments aren't considering what Lux (and my argument) are actually saying. You're right, if I don't feel like repurchasing the chassis for another mech, then I won't. However, have you considered that if I could equip it with multiple mechs I'd feel like not repurchasing that chassis but another chassis because I can equip it on more things_

Please read this out, I hope I can summarize our argument as succinctly as possible:

TL;DR:We believe mech parts should be universal to increase (not decrease!) sales. If you're scratching your head why, scroll back up to either my previous post or one of the many that Lux posted.

This is of course possible, but if that's the sole purpose of this thread-something that gets lost in many of the original poster's words, there is no purpose to the thread. A single person's (or two or three people's) opinion at the moment that they post this is not the data that anyone is collecting in order to make these decisions. I've had many a moment where I bought one or two things and then I thought "ok, that's enough. I wish this transferred to other mechs." but lo and behold I sold a couple items on steam, had a little extra money, and all of the sudden I buy a few more things that I wouldn't have if the parts were universal. Of course, my particular experience is only one data point, just like yours and Lux's and everyone elses, but the devs already have that information. And they have it with pure numbers, no one touting their e-peens on the forums to muddle it up.

In the end this is just a "Hey, look at this new idea" thread. Except, it's not new in any way shape or form, and has been considered not only by the community, but by the devs hundreds of times. If the publishers decide that monetarily this is the right course of action, and they have every right to consider that, then they will do it, as they did with the camos and repair bots. My personal opinion is that the chassis parts should remain limited to one mech on purchase at least until several more options are available, but that may or may not reflect the data that none of us have.

tl,dr: Some are against or for it on personal reasons, others are for it because they claim some sort of economic knowledge that the devs and publishers somehow don't possess, and others still are for it because of their own wallets, but it doesn't matter because none of us have the appropriate information to make the call.

I don't know what you're problem with me is, but you are obviously taking things personally for some reason. This last post of yours confirms it. My original post was not at all saying "hey I have a new idea", I am relatively new to the game and the forums and never said that, because I don't know if it is.

My original post was pretty short, straight to the point, and I did nothing but put forward my personal opinion of what the devs could do to accomplish two things at once: improve and increase customer satisfaction and willingness to spend, while increasing their profit.

You also say that I am speaking or acting like I know better than the devs, when I explicitly say that I don't. At the end of my OP, I offer to provide free analysis and support with this issue if they like, and freely admit that I don't have any numbers or data to speak with authority on the matter, and that's why *gasp* this is a suggestion and not a demand based on my epeen as you so politely put it.

Stop talking out through your a**, if you have a problem with me personally, feel free to PM me, but it's really pathetic for you to continue to try and twist my words 180 degrees while at the same time talking down to me and claiming you won't respond because of my "attitude" whatever the hell that means.

[Thresh_1]

Just a minor counterpoint. Personally, I don't have an issue with the system as-is, aside from not liking the Incinerator I bought (which is that I just can't 'get into' the unique playstyle it has, my problem) and the inability to sell it or scrap it or whatever.

I've given Hawken a grand total of $25. Bought a couple paintjobs, a couple icons, and I think I bought a gun too. I've logged 100 hrs playtime (just got the achievement yesterday) and I have everything but the Scout and Berserker unlocked. This was before they changed the tree with the Raider G2, by the way.

My main go-to mechs (about 6 or 7) are becoming outfitted with hot-swappable internals as I have literally grinded my HC every single day except Fridays and the occasional day off. I do my dailys, including bot coop, and average 100 HC a game even in a loss.

Having said that, my W/L and K/D stats are terrible, but that is because I stick with the matches and don't rage-quit at the 18th sign of adversity. It's just a game, after all. It doesn't beat my wife in the sack, even on sunday morning.

You just gotta put the time in if possible. Or throw your wallet at it if you can't.

More to the point though.. I said this in another, similar post: You can't take a performance intake off a 12-cyl Rolls Royce (internal, C-Class) and put it on a Pontiac (B-Class.) Bolt patterns, threading, gaskets, boring, metric/standard, pressure, coolant jackets... it all makes the assembly impossible. You have to buy the intake for the Pontiac. I was a mechanic for 14 years. Trust me on this. I've seen some crazy, shade-tree shizz but that which I described is in the realm of impossible. To MAKE it fit would cost more than the actual part.

(Buckets of paint tho are very cheap. Just fyi.)

I am talking about internals, though. Not guns. IMO that is a whole different topic.

[LuxAngel7]

Thresh_1, on May 10 2014 - 01:47 PM, said:

Just a minor counterpoint. Personally, I don't have an issue with the system as-is, aside from not liking the Incinerator I bought (which is that I just can't 'get into' the unique playstyle it has, my problem) and the inability to sell it or scrap it or whatever.

I've given Hawken a grand total of $25. Bought a couple paintjobs, a couple icons, and I think I bought a gun too. I've logged 100 hrs playtime (just got the achievement yesterday) and I have everything but the Scout and Berserker unlocked. This was before they changed the tree with the Raider G2, by the way.

My main go-to mechs (about 6 or 7) are becoming outfitted with hot-swappable internals as I have literally grinded my HC every single day except Fridays and the occasional day off. I do my dailys, including bot coop, and average 100 HC a game even in a loss.

Having said that, my W/L and K/D stats are terrible, but that is because I stick with the matches and don't rage-quit at the 18th sign of adversity. It's just a game, after all. It doesn't beat my wife in the sack, even on sunday morning.

You just gotta put the time in if possible. Or throw your wallet at it if you can't.

More to the point though.. I said this in another, similar post: You can't take a performance intake off a 12-cyl Rolls Royce (internal, C-Class) and put it on a Pontiac (B-Class.) Bolt patterns, threading, gaskets, boring, metric/standard, pressure, coolant jackets... it all makes the assembly impossible. You have to buy the intake for the Pontiac. I was a mechanic for 14 years. Trust me on this. I've seen some crazy, shade-tree shizz but that which I described is in the realm of impossible. To MAKE it fit would cost more than the actual part.

(Buckets of paint tho are very cheap. Just fyi.)

I am talking about internals, though. Not guns. IMO that is a whole different topic.

Um ok I understand if you want to view everything through lore colored glasses, but the point you raise doesn't make much sense.

So you're implying that since in the real worl you can't swapt parts from one vehicle to another, in Hawken you shouldn't be able to either unless you pay again and again and again for the same part every time_ Sorry, but that doesn't really make much sense.