46 replies to this topic

[spo0n]

A team of incinerators will take down a ship faster than a team standing on the aa for the first three, the fourth is when the aa starts shooting faster.

[Z3roCool007]

Aregon, on July 18 2014 - 08:07 PM, said:

Kopra, on July 18 2014 - 11:41 AM, said:

The AA does 280dps to the ship when you have 3 or more guys on it. If your team has an Incinerator and/or is projectile heavy (those have no falloff) then it's not a bad idea to shoot the ship if it's knocking on your base door.

It is actually faster to take it down with an Incinerator, if I remember correctly.

Hm. Time to get an incin.
The amount of bad games I get.

[hawkenus]

These little n00bs and lamers really start pissing me off, when they talk go to AA, when you need to shoot the ship, not dying miserably still pushing AA...
and the most annoying is when our base HP is so low, that we need EU for a ship launch to prevent dmg to base, because even 6 of us in AA won't be launching the missiles fast enough to shoot down enemy ship...
and these n00bs and lamers whining all day that you need to go to AA or stay AA...
if not that say that you are a FUZZY BUNNY etc...

[craftydus]

No matter what happens, I'm not very likely to follow your orders in a videogame.
However, I'll do my level best to contribute toward a win.
People who run their mouth a lot in a seige match to berate their teammates are wasting their energy being negative.
If you find taking a loss unhinges your mental state, maybe take a break or something.

[nokari]

Quote

No matter what happens, I'm not very likely to follow your orders in a videogame.

Maybe this idea is too radical or unacceptable to some of you, but try it at least once.
If you're in a match and 1 or 2 guys is going off on your team about how you should do this, not that and insulting your tactics, stop what you're doing and follow their directions exactly. Listen to what they want you to do and do it. One of several outcomes will happen every time:

1) Their strategy is the correct one to follow, and because you are all working together with the same correct strategy, you win.

2) Their strategy is the correct one to follow, and while you may end up still losing because it was done too late or without total team sync, you can at least realize they had it right and you were wrong. A good time to change your own strategies.

3) Their strategy is the incorrect one, irregardless of whether your idea was better. If you do exactly what they say and your team loses, then you have every right to point your finger at them and say it was the wrong strategy. It may not change their minds, but you'll at least have the moral victory of having listened and tried instead of being the guy that won't listen to advice and insults his team.

Though ideally if they were wrong and you do start pointing fingers, I hope you at least be constructive about it and not insult them. But that may be asking too much for some..

[thirtysix]

Indeed siege vets do shoot the ship. Every tactical situation can not be covered by a general rule. But to start out shooting the ship because you don't know better, don't want to get killed, see someone else doing it, the other team is whipping your butt... whatever. Ya just can't, you have to try to win the AA and that's where I think most vets get so frustrated. For whatever reason the team just can't get its fuzzy bunny together and it's inevitable they are going to lose.

[spo0n]

nokari, on July 19 2014 - 08:19 PM, said:

Quote

No matter what happens, I'm not very likely to follow your orders in a videogame.

Maybe this idea is too radical or unacceptable to some of you, but try it at least once.
If you're in a match and 1 or 2 guys is going off on your team about how you should do this, not that and insulting your tactics, stop what you're doing and follow their directions exactly. Listen to what they want you to do and do it. One of several outcomes will happen every time:

1) Their strategy is the correct one to follow, and because you are all working together with the same correct strategy, you win.

2) Their strategy is the correct one to follow, and while you may end up still losing because it was done too late or without total team sync, you can at least realize they had it right and you were wrong. A good time to change your own strategies.

3) Their strategy is the incorrect one, irregardless of whether your idea was better. If you do exactly what they say and your team loses, then you have every right to point your finger at them and say it was the wrong strategy. It may not change their minds, but you'll at least have the moral victory of having listened and tried instead of being the guy that won't listen to advice and insults his team.

Though ideally if they were wrong and you do start pointing fingers, I hope you at least be constructive about it and not insult them. But that may be asking too much for some..

You forgot an option, let me help out.
4) Competent players already know how to play and what to do, so shouting at people instead of respawning and playing wastes time.  Your team is down a man because someone wants to type incompetent advise.  The team down a man loses.

[nokari]

spo0n, on July 20 2014 - 04:53 AM, said:

nokari, on July 19 2014 - 08:19 PM, said:

Quote

No matter what happens, I'm not very likely to follow your orders in a videogame.

Maybe this idea is too radical or unacceptable to some of you, but try it at least once.
If you're in a match and 1 or 2 guys is going off on your team about how you should do this, not that and insulting your tactics, stop what you're doing and follow their directions exactly. Listen to what they want you to do and do it. One of several outcomes will happen every time:

1) Their strategy is the correct one to follow, and because you are all working together with the same correct strategy, you win.

2) Their strategy is the correct one to follow, and while you may end up still losing because it was done too late or without total team sync, you can at least realize they had it right and you were wrong. A good time to change your own strategies.

3) Their strategy is the incorrect one, irregardless of whether your idea was better. If you do exactly what they say and your team loses, then you have every right to point your finger at them and say it was the wrong strategy. It may not change their minds, but you'll at least have the moral victory of having listened and tried instead of being the guy that won't listen to advice and insults his team.

Though ideally if they were wrong and you do start pointing fingers, I hope you at least be constructive about it and not insult them. But that may be asking too much for some..

You forgot an option, let me help out.
4) Competent players already know how to play and what to do, so shouting at people instead of respawning and playing wastes time.  Your team is down a man because someone wants to type incompetent advise.  The team down a man loses.

That's the opposite of what I was suggesting. That's the "do what you're already doing" option that I was addressing. My point was that sometimes we are wrong when we think we're right. Obviously there's no specific rules, but sometimes we think we're infallable, which is why I suggest trying to follow someone else's directions at least ONCE. You may end up losing, or you may end up winning even stronger because instead of being 5 teammates working against 1 angry teammate + 6 enemies, you could be 6 in sync teammates. If their strategy is proving to be wrong, then you can all tell him to shut up and follow a different strategy or maybe he'll leave and someone else can join.

There are a few caveats for bad players who simply decide not to help because teammates weren't listening at the start or because teams are uneven, but the point is give them a shot and you may prove who is right and who is wrong.

Of course everyone is free to do whatever they want, but if you've got an open mind, try it. It will either confirm your beliefs or surprise you. Either way the only thing you have to possibly lose is 1 match out of the hundreds you've played and will play.

Edited by nokari, July 20 2014 - 10:25 AM.

[spo0n]

I understand what you are/were saying, but crafty is a competent player, and him doing what "is best for the team" is not mutually exclusive with what people are saying to do.

I believe he meant that depending on the situation he will decide for himself what is best, and pursue that course... or just say fuzzy bunny it have fun then play the next match.

[Odinous]

Man,the chills u get when u join a team and u dont need to say a word cause everyone know what they are doing,those are the best matches!

[SkyeBeats]

Odinous, on July 20 2014 - 10:45 AM, said:

Man,the chills u get when u join a team and u dont need to say a word cause everyone know what they are doing,those are the best matches!

Those siege matches are so few and far between that you have a higher chance of winning the lottery than finding a match like that.

[BurnsHot]

Odinous, on July 20 2014 - 10:45 AM, said:

Man,the chills u get when u join a team and u dont need to say a word cause everyone know what they are doing,those are the best matches!

I get chills when I join a match and players on my team are bitching at each other.  It gets even worse when one player wants to make his point by using chat-all instead of team chat.

The worst thing that you can do when you are loosing is to complain about your team to the enemy team.

Edited by BurnsHot, July 21 2014 - 06:07 AM.

[Odinous]

@ SkyeBeats actually no,having a good friendlist helps you finding great matches just by joining them

[SoldierHobbes11]

Main problem I see is people sometimes shoot the ship or blindly charge the AA when it's not the opportune moment to do so.

[BurnsHot]

It never fails.  I played with a team last night who refuse to shoot the ship.  I didn't get nasty with them, I just kept calling for the team to do it, but maybe only one team mate did.

I chalk it up to: my team just gave up, simple as that.

They didn't want the game to extend.  They were ready for it to end.

What is Sad is that our problems mostly was the result of uneven number of players not necessarily lack of skill.

More players did join but by the time they did our team had already given up.

Edited by BurnsHot, July 24 2014 - 07:53 AM.

[PoopSlinger]

Maybe if you quit being zerker and played a useful mech your team wouldn't eat so much doodoo.  jk  Add me as friend i've played a bunch of sieges with you and will only let you down 42% of the time.

[GustoSpiegel]

In the even that you still don't know what to do in siege, follow my 12 minute Siege shortie

perfect show of what to do.  I'll post more as I record more



cheers,

GustoSpiegel

[GalaxyRadio]

@Gusto Spiegel

Good Morning!

Mistake No.1 - 2:40min. - you left your Team alone at EU Station, 1 teammate almost dead, another one beeing shot by 2 big C-Classes. Main objectiv from Tech is to keep your team alive, not launching/collecting eu, just keep Team alive, because most of the time they are standing at EU Stations until they are full with EU, not what is needed to launch the ship. You can do it as the last guy, all your mates on the way back to deliver, you can collect as a reserve Unit for 2/3rd Launch

Mistake No.2 - 2:45min. - there was Pred Mines stick to the wall, they cold blown you up, detonate by Pred himself

Mistake No.3 - 4:00min. - again, you are not healing your teammate, instead of that you choose to hunting someone, then saw 2 enemy mechs, going back to see your teammate is dead, could live by now

Mistake No.4 - 4:25min. - collecting EU is ok, but you have to watch while collecting it, what your team is doing and watching at the same time the radar, so you can decide after that, where to go to help your team out, with keep in mind what the radar says and where you are needed the most to fight enemy back

Mistake No. 5 - 5:25min. - you can see a teammate fighting near enemy base with low health, but you choose to heal your already safe teammates, the Pred and the 1 in the corner, also safe. They can repair themself, making points isn't important, important is the one fighting at the front. You was lucky, they survived that

Minor Mistake No.6 - 5:55min. - you have to watch the way the enemy is coming from while going backwards btw strafing back to aa, they could be anytime a SS/Reaper or Pred sniping you, in the worst it could be 2 of them and you where dead at this time not watching your sides or back

Mistake No.7 - 7:40min. - you let, again, a teammate alone fighting near EU Station, launching is important, but to keep your guys alive also while holding back the enemy to get some eu. this is not your objective, you are just reserve, you can send your team to aa with 150 EU left to delvier to base, say it beforehand and keep them alive until then. See at 8:05min. the Pred from your team was dead, because you let him alone

Mistake No.8 - 8:20min. - you choose to hunt that rocketeer instead of helping your team at aa, had the AA in their hands for a short time. Outcome was, you don't get thet rocketeer and dying painfully at aa while fighting 3 guys almost with full HP and your whole team is dead. You had to retreat that time, standing and waiting for teammates to go at aa again helping the. You don't know if they would be still alive with you at aa instead of chasing down tha rocketeer, but overall this wasn't the best choice.

You go only on Red Beam, if you team have clearly the upperhand or your teammate is finished before the enemy with only shooting with Prestige Weapon while healing your teammate, so sometimes its okay to shoot with both to keep your teammate alive and heal him ASAP after that.

Minor Mistake 10:15min. - while healing, you can watch a little bit more to the left to see what your team is doing, fine or with low health_ It's not a problem, the heal beam will still work

And overall it wasn't a big problem to win that, because 1 of your teammates was extremly strong and the enemy side had a strange combinations of mechs. The only 1 i know is Gameover, a very strong player, your side had beside you 3 names i can remember, that tells everything, it was unbalanced and clear who would win this, but i don't play much on US because of bad ping, so i don't know all the good player there.

But overall your team did good to play with objectives ind mind

Kind Regards,

Galaxy Radio

Edited by GalaxyRadio, July 27 2014 - 01:31 AM.

[GustoSpiegel]

Alrighty GalaxyRadio,

I will only spend so much on your post and here it goes

Siege is not TDM, its objectives, if my teammates are going to put themselves in a sticky situation that does not seem favorable to the game, I WILL NOT go and fetch them.  And here is the breakdown of YOUR perceived mistakes:

M1 2:40
Whenever you've got the EU to launch and its favourable to launch, launch.  As you might have noticed by the radar, it was 4v3 and we were pinned on EU, chances of surviving are questionable yet I already had the amassed EU.  If you noticed the countdown we were down with the EU but 1 guy was loading up and I was going to finish the load on the enemy side they still had 130ish EU left and nobody was bringing it on their side.  Techie is tech, but its part of the team to make the objectives work, if pple keep shooting at the EU station instead of bringing back what they have, its not playing effectively.

M2 2:45
Dunno where you see the mistake, i was bringing EU back and i had more than enough health and i was far enough from those MOSTLY EOC mines. Non issue, if i would have died, someone could had taken the EU back and launched, and at worst, i would respawn, pick up the EU again and launch.  Non Issue.

M3 4:00
I could have lasted a bit longer on him, I lost track of the Brawler and I remember that I had to scratch my nose.  Great for seeing that the incin decided to come back to an engagement while still being low in HP.

M4 4:25
I don't see the mistake, the current objective is to blow up their ship, I am standing in AA to make that happen and I see EU for the next launch in AA while not getting blown up.  If my team mates are not in AA to speed up the process of blowing up their ship its their problem.  The Rocketeer decided to aim for me and the Predator on AA was full health if you didn't notice.  He was capable of taking care of himself while I picked up EU for the next launch.  Keep the objectives in mind, I'm not only a Techie on the field, I'm also part of the functional team.

If you notice I dropped 300 EU that fast forwarded the next battleship launch.

M5 5:25
So yeah, I don't like to harass, the team had AA and I was glad with that, Evolwar was looking for blood, so good for him.  Iike I said, if team mates decide to put themselves in sticky situations that "especially here" over aggress the team, then let them be.

M6 5:55
Non issue, nobody was there, it was concluded that most of their players are shooting the ship.
Non issue

M7 7:40
He didn't see that we had 3 guys offloading EU.  It's a pub, if you decide to fight around EU and not bring it back, so be it, but my choice was not to let go to waste the EU that I had amassed and hope for the best.  In the end hhung died and saw HIS mistake to get in a fight that was not needed.  The objective is to get the ship shooting their base, not for me to support team mates that will decide to fight it out in areas that does not support the cause of the objectives.  hhung respawned and saw the messages to go to AA and went there right away.  Was for the team's benefit.

M8 8:20
If you see, 3 of my team mates died all together in the span of less than 2 seconds.  if I would have chosen to come down the middle instead of sweeping around, there might have been a different outcome, but that being said a techie will be only in the way if they are pushing so hard.  All of the mech's positions in the team were not optimal.  I did try to do a little vendetta on the Rocketeer.  

The last minor 10:15
Meh, I was in my "healing" zone and I was comfortable there.  It pained me to see my team mate blow up on me right in front of my eyes, I did shed 1 dried up tear, but they fought valiantly.  I think this is the biggest mistake of my game actually.... since I zoned out and just decided to be relaxing for the last seconds of the game.  Sue me, i was still on the objective.

The win was not what I was talking about.  I was talking about synergy with the team.  Evolwar was looking for carnage and he went to get it.  What I wanted to emphasize was that at least 4 team mates were always aware of what needs to be done next (including me)  Bringing EU back is not a mistake for a Techie, its strategy.  A techie is not reserve because they can actually kill.

Thanks for being so critical about my play style, but I see that you are TDM oriented and not Siege oriented and its clear why I could win Tech vs Tech against you in Siege.

QED,

GustoSpiegel

Please go and criticize my next videos, I'll be exalted to give my explanations.

[ThatDamnedBoedy]

BurnsHot, on July 14 2014 - 06:56 AM, said:

I'm not the first player to make a post about Shooting the Ship but for the NEWBIES out there and some who have played more than a few Siege games. You guys need a Reminder! When your Top Score player says: Team all shoot the Ship NOW.  You should listen!

Shooting the ship makes sense when the ship has traveled half way across the map and your team can not take the AA especially if your team is a MAN down.  This happens quite often and so many players want to argue about the merits of shooting the ship instead of taking the AA.  To those players I say this.  Can't you see that we are a man down and taking the AA is not going to happen_

In the time it takes to fight for control of the AA and for the counter to roll and actually launch a missile at the ship your team could have shot it down quicker. (Plenty of times the ship is at one bar of health and instead of shooting it the team throws themselves at the AA one at a time to their deaths)

The best you can hope for is shooting it as a Team and bring it down fast to buy time for another player to join.  Hopefully the new player joins and you regroup and go at it with balanced number of players.

The main reason to shoot the ship is that it buys you TIME.

Players are constantly dropping off and new players joining.  So many games are won or lost as a directly result of that new player joining.

I'm sure if you did a search you will find plenty more post that tell you when to and when not to shoot the ship, but when you are in a game and a player says shoot the ship.

If you are in the above situation then Listen and don't argue.

SHOOT THE SHIP!!!!!

Update:  If you are NEW and do not fully understand how to win Siege games, than Don't sit back and think you can shoot the ship while your team is going at the AA.

Follow the lead of the team and if its announced to shoot the ship then do it otherwise your are not helping your team out.

Shooting the ship works in a minority of situations.  Doing it should gain you the initiative.  However what usually happens is this.  A moron in a sharpshooter or reaper will stand back the entire time plinking away at the ship regardless of what anyone types or says.  He'd be more useful suiciding on the AA as a distraction to the other team than shooting the damned ship from the rear.

Also sniping isn't as directly helpful as getting on the AA.  Yes you can help clear out one or two guys maybe...but if the other team keeps rushing right back you haven't done a damned thing except raise your personal score.  
Ofc in Siege I think they should get rid of tracking your k/d ratio and have no score awarded for kills...substitute in more XP for killing enemy ships and by how badly you win (weighted against the other team's member count).  That means you get less XP for winning as a full team vs someone who has 3-4 players on average due to frequent drops or simply low server population.