91 replies to this topic

[PsychoTick]

No, I believe he was being facetious.

[Garuda]

Woa, we reached 4 pages_
Time to get 3D glasses.

nomnomnomnomnomnomnomnom

[Cyclonus]

I wish you could switch out weapons too.

[Montiblanc]

i wish it could be like armored core for answer. But its never gonna be able to be as good as that...is that okay_ depends on the person while i personnaly am not okay with it.

[TheChaffeemancer]

Montiblanc, on November 03 2012 - 01:43 PM, said:

i wish it could be like armored core for answer. But its never gonna be able to be as good as that...is that okay_ depends on the person while i personnaly am not okay with it.

Your well-reasoned and explained assertion that this game is not as good as another mech game is very convincing.

[Montiblanc]

well i dont really feel the need to explain a game you can easily see more of on youtube ~_~

[AsianJoyKiller]

Montiblanc, on November 03 2012 - 03:12 PM, said:

well i dont really feel the need to explain a game you can easily see more of on youtube ~_~

Yeah, sorry.
A good persuasive argument doesn't work like "go watch about it on youtube."

You need to tell us what the mechanics are that you like, then explain why you think they should be in Hawken and why you think they're appropriate for Hawken.

[Punisher_1]

TemperWolf makes a solid and valid point.

Here's the issue

If you have been gaming for a long time you can see that older games had more content, resonably smart AI and options. However game now a days is all about shagging you for all your money and giving you little to no content.

And this is going to offend but I don't give sh17. It seems all gaming is designed for the ADD generation of players. It's mostly fluff graphics and little content. The whole core of the game is based on shallow PVP which does not seem that complex to put togther. The whole process seems to be to hook the player into spending money to aviod the pain of grinding. Horrible to think games are going this way.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Punisher_1, on November 03 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

TemperWolf makes a solid and valid point.

Here's the issue

If you have been gaming for a long time you can see that older games had more content, resonably smart AI and options. However game now a days is all about shagging you for all your money and giving you little to no content.

And this is going to offend but I don't give sh17. It seems all gaming is designed for the ADD generation of players. It's mostly fluff graphics and little content. The whole core of the game is based on shallow PVP which does not seem that complex to put togther. The whole process seems to be to hook the player into spending money to aviod the pain of grinding. Horrible to think games are going this way.

TemperWolf does not, in fact, have a solid and valid point.

He doesn't even have a point.

The entire basis of his post is that he didn't do his research beforehand to see what Hawken was all about, and then got upset when it was a vastly different game than his imagined expectations and then complained about it.

Like you, he also shows a extremely limited understanding of how the game works. Both you and he make claims that are, at best, incredibly biased and poorly researched and at worst, completely false.
At least TemperWolf tried to back up his claims, which you fail to do so completely.

Edited by AsianJoyKiller, November 03 2012 - 07:59 PM.

[Roundlay]

AsianJoyKiller, on November 03 2012 - 07:58 PM, said:

At least TemperWolf tried to back up his claims, which you fail to do so completely.

Chip on your shoulder much_ The bedrock of TemperWolf’s initial post is an expression of “disappointment”. That is, his/her opinion. With this in mind, and irrespective of the veracity of the claims made therein, replies to this kind of topic would be better served as alternate ideas and less cross examination of the OP.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Roundlay, on November 03 2012 - 11:20 PM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on November 03 2012 - 07:58 PM, said:

At least TemperWolf tried to back up his claims, which you fail to do so completely.

Chip on your shoulder much_ The bedrock of TemperWolf’s initial post is an expression of “disappointment”. That is, his/her opinion. With this in mind, and irrespective of the veracity of the claims made therein, replies to this kind of topic would be better served as alternate ideas and less cross examination of the OP.

That's all well and good, but show me where Punisher_1 is actually adding any ideas or concepts.
All I see is at least one outright lie, and a couple of vague statements that may or may not be true, depending on what you source as evidence.

[Roundlay]

AsianJoyKiller, on November 04 2012 - 04:31 AM, said:

That's all well and good, but show me where Punisher_1 is actually adding any ideas or concepts. All I see is at least one outright lie, and a couple of vague statements that may or may not be true, depending on what you source as evidence.

I don't necessarily disagree with your assessment, but Punisher_1's comment is beyond the scope and bearing of my reply.

Forum participants, for better or worse (generally the latter) are under no burden to back up or present fully researched and sufficient arguments to support their claims. So, straight appeals to emotion, like the aforementioned comments, are best left ignored, in my opinion.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Roundlay, on November 04 2012 - 04:48 AM, said:

I don't necessarily disagree with your assessment, but Punisher_1's comment is beyond the scope and bearing of my reply.

Forum participants, for better or worse (generally the latter) are under no burden to back up or present fully researched and sufficient arguments to support their claims. So, straight appeals to emotion, like the aforementioned comments, are best left ignored, in my opinion.

I feel differently.
So...
Uh...
Yeeeaaah.
*Insert "That awkward moment when..." comment here*

[Roundlay]

Punisher_1, on November 03 2012 - 07:01 PM, said:

And this is going to offend but I don't give sh17. It seems all gaming is designed for the ADD generation of players. It's mostly fluff graphics and little content. The whole core of the game is based on shallow PVP which does not seem that complex to put togther. The whole process seems to be to hook the player into spending money to aviod the pain of grinding. Horrible to think games are going this way.

Whilst intuitively I disagree with the gist of your comments, a lot of research actually does suggest that time spent playing video games is positively correlated with incidences of attention deficit disorder (Chan, Rabinowitz; Swing et al.), so taking your assumption for granted for the sake of discussion, perhaps approaches to game development have unconsciously shifted over time to cater to this trend. On the other hand, some have suggested that "it's not that gamers can't pay attention, it's that they choose not to" (Prensky). Also sciencequoteskthxbye.

Edited by Roundlay, November 04 2012 - 05:22 AM.

[VertoPrime]

Is this a new way to rant about a game with comparative ideology and industry know how then write a one page essay to do it_

To think people would develop a game of this quality and then give it to you for free is really arrogant, there are some good points to your argument but to be arrogant and naive about the rest only draws one conclusion, "Who Cares."   Can you tell the difference with Hawken compared to some other industry games_  There is no hype to get you to buy...  In my opinion this game is awesome and different by way of feel and control, is it similar to other Mech games of course it is with sounds and visuals.  So if your disappointed about the game being FPS then go play some RPG or develop one to your liking Wandering Samurai Studios is hiring...these guys are real Independent developers and they really know their Battle Tech.  By the way, what is up with all these big words do we really need them to look intelligent_

[AsianJoyKiller]

VertoPrime, on November 04 2012 - 07:05 AM, said:

By the way, what is up with all these big words do we really need them to look intelligent_

Need them_ No.
Like them, yes.

I'd rather read a wordy, arguably pretentious essay that's precise and clearly explains a person's thoughts, rather than the mass of vague or general statements riddled by punctuation and spelling errors that is commonly what one is subject to on public forums.

[Roundlay]

VertoPrime, on November 04 2012 - 07:05 AM, said:

By the way, what is up with all these big words do we really need them to look intelligent_

There is no shame or pretense in expanding your vocabulary. Use your words, my Padawan.

[Elix]

Everyone has a toolbox. Some just have bigger or smaller ones, and some don't use all the tools they've got.

Being sophisticated and nuanced in your language is not automatically a sign of snobbish elitism.

[TemperWolf]

I for one am also impressed to see this topic still going, but at the same I'm shamed to see that no one is respecting the point of the topic and have merely hijacked it for a immature "He said vs. She said" argument. Some claim I have a point, some claim I don't. Some say I did research, some say I don't. Here is the ultimately point: None of that matters.

Okay, the original plan of this topic was to open up a forum - a very straightforward conversation on opinion and point of view. Discussions lead to feedback, feedback leads to constructive and helpful critique to better the overall development of the game. While I may not enjoy the game, I remain hopeful that constructive critique can still be shared. Furthermore, I was also trying to gauge the prospective of the players here.

We are all different people and we all have different tastes. What plays well to me, may not play so well to you and visa-versa. I see fault in some of the development choices in the game mainly because I'm a huge mech fan, but not much of a FPS fan; however, if there were enough mech-style content in the game I could overlook my distaste of FPS games. I also stated that this game just feels utterly void of good content and it feels way too mainstream for an independent title. I did voice disappointment in that regard. Does that make me at fault for "not researching" the subject matter_ No.

Why not_ Because of advertising, art, webdesign, and the overall look of the game as a whole is largely misleading. Even if I did research, that doesn't matter. People will always approach a game with expectations; people will always bring their experience from former games with them; and people will always expect something more progressive than something they've had on their shelf for the past 12 years.

All I ask if that people take the time to re-read the opening statement of this thread and honor it: "I’m going to lay down a point of view and that I request the community to take time to talk about why they are for or against such points."

That is an invite for constructive and thoughtful conversation. Those points have been laid out already. Does my quality as a gamer, time spent playing, or research I've done before hand matter in that_ No. If you think it does, then do not respond and let this topic die.

If no one is going to honor the point of this thread, then by all means please stop posting in it and go do something more constructive with your time.

Now you do the same:

What Hawken is_ (to you)
What Hawken isn't_ (to you)
Is that Okay_ (Your view)

Review each other's comments and views and discuss accordingly in a constructive manner.

Edited by TemperWolf, November 04 2012 - 09:58 PM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

TemperWolf, on November 04 2012 - 09:35 PM, said:

We are all different people and we all have different tastes. What plays well to me, may not play so well to you and visa-versa. I see fault in some of the development choices in the game mainly because I'm a huge mech fan, but not much of a FPS fan; however, if there were enough mech-style content in the game I could overlook my distaste of FPS games. I also stated that this game just feels utterly void of good content and it feels way too mainstream for an independent title. I did voice disappointment in that regard. Does that make me at fault for "not researching" the subject matter_ No.

Why not_ Because of advertising, art, webdesign, and the overall look of the game as a whole is largely misleading. Even if I did research, that doesn't matter. People will always approach a game with expectations; people will always bring their experience from former games with them; and people will always expect something more progressive than something they've had on their shelf for the past 12 years.

Tell me, how is this misleading_



Or this:



Or this:




All of that is official Hawken media and advertising. It paints a very accurate picture of what you find in the game. I sure as hell can blame you for not doing your research. With all that's been available, there's absolutely no reason whatsoever you should be expecting Hawken to differ so much than what has been shown.
I'd say you'd have to be delusional to think any of your disappointment is justified.
If you have watched or read even a fraction of the material out there about Hawken, you should have known what you were getting into.

Also, about this:

Quote

I see fault in some of the development choices in the game mainly because I'm a huge mech fan, but not much of a FPS fan; however, if there were enough mech-style content in the game I could overlook my distaste of FPS games.

This is a mech game, pure and simple. How you operate in the world of Hawken is through a mech, and that is enough to make it a mech game with mech content. "Mech-style content" does not mean it has to have extensive customization. It doesn't have to have any customization.

Quote

it feels way too mainstream for an independent title

Newsflash, being an indie title does not mean it can't cater towards mainstream audiences. All it means is the dev doesn't have the same sort of resources that the large big-name studios have.
Now, that often leads indie games to rely on things like highly innovative gameplay and extremely unique mechanics in order to be noticed against big titles, but remember, that is not what makes them an indie title.

Lastly, unless you're a mod or admin, don't tell me how I should or should not reply to a topic.
You've posted on a semi-public forum, and that means you've agreed to open your ideas to whatever comes their way.
If it's inappropriate, report it and ignore it.
If you don't like it, then either ignore it, or deal with it.