34 replies to this topic

[Hipnox]

ForTheTrees, on November 11 2012 - 06:01 AM, said:

i get 5000-7000 EXP per TDM game

gotta use HP/XP boosts..

plus, if i want something, ill just buy it. Dropping 20 bucks into a F2P game that will give me hours of entertainment is a no brainer. Id rather save myself the time.

1- That's EXP, i'm not talking about EXP.
2- A Free2Play game must be able to sustain a a large portion of 100% free players to populate the servers. If a free2play game requires you to spend on it to be able to enjoy it, then it's a retail game with a blurry price tag masquerading as a F2P

TheChaffeemancer, on November 11 2012 - 06:04 AM, said:

But you get awarded XP for your actions. HP is for team actions and what not.

Read the first post people, im talking about HP not EXP.

Progression in this game comes not from EXP but from in-game currency (HP). Exp only serves to stack multiple barely noticeable flat percentage upgrades and level up your weapons (which give more barely noticeable flat percentage upgrades).

Real progression comes from buying mechs, internals, usable items, camos and parts. You know, things that require HP

[BuDeKai]

Jesus another one of these threads.

at the end of the day the people making the game have to make money. its FREE TO PLAY not FREE TO HAVE. Why would they make it easy to unlock everything, its the most horrible business model ever. the beauty of the free to play model is that you can experience what the game has to offer and decide whether you want to spend money on it. the more you spend on it the more support we will receive as a community. i always put at least 30 bucks into a free to play game. if i get 300 hours of enjoyment out of it thats the best 30 bucks ive ever spent. if u want a truly free game ill send u a copy of dota 2 on steam.

Edited by BuDeKai, November 11 2012 - 12:51 PM.

[PiVoR]

If you want to see real grind, try Ghost Recon Online. You get around 200 RP if you win a match and if you played it well, where weapon cost around 32000 RP. Now do the math..
Hawken is very fine in that subject.

[h0B0]

@2000 plus exp per game and an exp boost i have finally managed to reach level 20. This progress was made in CBE2 alone. i do not think it unreasonable to grind a ~week for a mech especially since i will not use most of them and grinding a new champ in lol takes about 2 weeks.

[DarkPulse]

I think the real problem is that once you hit about a dozen levels, the game turns grindtastic.

Keep in mind, this is XP needed PER LEVEL to get to the next one. This comes straight from game files.

[HawkenGame.R_LocalPlayer]
XpForLevel[0]=0
XpForLevel[1]=0
XpForLevel[2]=1220
XpForLevel[3]=2653
XpForLevel[4]=4337
XpForLevel[5]=6316
XpForLevel[6]=8641
XpForLevel[7]=11373
XpForLevel[8]=14584
XpForLevel[9]=18356
XpForLevel[10]=22789
XpForLevel[11]=27997
XpForLevel[12]=34117
XpForLevel[13]=41308
XpForLevel[14]=49757
XpForLevel[15]=59685
XpForLevel[16]=71350
XpForLevel[17]=85057
XpForLevel[18]=101162
XpForLevel[19]=120086
XpForLevel[20]=142321
XpForLevel[21]=168447
XpForLevel[22]=199146
XpForLevel[23]=235217
XpForLevel[24]=277600
XpForLevel[25]=327400

So the good news is it looks like they'll plan levels over 20. The bad news is, it's going to take you a hell of a while to get there once they do.

I'd much rather have a linear increase than this progressive scale. The only way such a scale is fair is if enemies can give more or less XP based on their level relative to yours or something, and that is its own can of worms.

Just set it back to a flat rate. It's already a decent length of time now to gain the extra 3 levels I lost from the changeover... and that's with boosters. Without_ Gonna take quite awhile.

[ItsThatGuy]

To distill this post, the OP is making a point about your skill as a mech-pilot and your ability to earn in-game currency. I think the OPs enjoyment of the game is based on their ability to earn new mechs and items as rewards. The unlocking and feeling of progression is important. I think that is an entirely valid point.

You said the game becomes incredibly boring if you're not able to buy/earn new items, mechs, weapons, etc. You mention Combat Arms but what other Free-to-play games do you feel handle the grind vs pay mechanic better_ What would improve Hawken for you_ More options to start out with_  An easier way to earn-in game currency based on your performance in the match_ I'm also guessing that you would not spend money on Hawken but only play it for free_ This is not an insult or attack. 90% of players of free-to-play games fall in this category. As you've said, we still need people on the servers to play against.

I personally feel that all F2P games are a little grindy in regard to in-game currency. I kinda feel like it comes with the territory. I am curious to see what Hawken does with its monetization farther down the road. Are they going to be releasing new mechs (ala champions in LoL)_ More items and guns (like Tribes Ascend)_ More cosmetic items (TF2)_ They've said no pay-to-win but there are still alot of ways to do that. My guess is they're still figuring out the exact balance of it all.

[Necro]

This thread has been hard to read, most of the people have lost sight of what the OP post was about.

It wasn't about the rate at which you gain HP and XP was never mentioned so idk why people brought that up.

His complaint was that currency gain is primarily based on time played not skill or teamwork.


This, like he says, only promotes playing not playing well. His post also states that winning grants more then playing well.
(which allows a poor player to essentially ride on better players)

If he were to just keep something on the w key then that would have gotten him 96 points if his team won without him playing but if he lost he would have gotten 76. So to me a good way to earn money is just q-ing up and then holding down the w key and not even playing.

An easy way to remedy this is award player for doing objectives not only time spent playing, and another way to remedy this.

Quote

I can come in, 2 minutes before the end of the match, completely sweep the opposing team, flip the game around, and will probably get a measly 30 HP. Why_ because my heroic killing spree was only 2 minutes long.

Is to take time played and weigh it against kills/deaths/assists and if it's good stats but he only played for 2 minutes award more rewards for "flipping the game around"
(not a vast amount more)

[defekt]

Necro, on November 12 2012 - 12:52 AM, said:

This thread has been hard to read, most of the people have lost sight of what the OP post was about.
It wasn't about the rate at which you gain HP and XP was never mentioned so idk why people brought that up.
His complaint was that currency gain is primarily based on time played not skill or teamwork.

Necro, I feel the same way: this thread is creeping into territory that isn’t part of the OP’s point.

I share the opinion, as I posted in reply above, that mission objectives do not carry enough weight as far as reward is concerned; in fact I’d go so far as to say that in any game mode outside of DM winning a match is almost irrelevant.  This is an enormously damaging scoring philosophy to implement if team play is meant to be one of the game’s selling points.

[NC37]

Grind seems fine to me. At first it looked rough but it is decent.

But honestly this beta isn't very fun compared to the others. I've given it multiple days now and had nothing but terrible matches. People don't talk, don't work together, mechs are very fragile compared to what they were before. Got guys 2 shotting and almost 1 shotting people in matches, not always TOW related. Heck I've done it too to a couple of folks. Then one time I barely moved into the open on one map and in a couple of long range shots I was in the red. Heavy mechs are a joke now. Almost no point to take them. Very easy to chew one up with an assault mech. Most I see go around doing nothing but play DM when the objective is siege.

Hawken devs, what the heck happened_ The game was balanced beautifully. Now its horrid. No way in heck I'm gonna throw any support to this come launch if this is how it stays.

[defekt]

NC37, on November 12 2012 - 04:33 AM, said:

Most I see go around doing nothing but play DM when the objective is siege.

This is the only part of your post that is relevant to the OP topic, and your quoted observation is symptomatic of the very problem that the OP highlights.

[Nitris]

Objectives, Kills and Assists need to factor more into the amount of HP you gain from a match. They already factor in for EXP, why do they not for HP_
What happens when you have a fully maxed out Mech EXP wise_
If you gain HP so slowly regardless of what you do in the match, as OP has said, what is the point of doing anything but wedging W down and hiding in your team's spawn area for the entire match_

[defekt]

Nitris, on November 12 2012 - 05:11 AM, said:

Objectives, Kills and Assists need to factor more into the amount of HP you gain from a match. They already factor in for EXP, why do they not for HP_

If anything it's worse for XP; you can lose every match and still come away with a massive bucketload of XP for having completely ignored every single objective in the game mode (sans T/DMs).

[Nitris]

While I agree the values for EXP and objectives needs to be tweaked this is not the thread for that, and my post only says they are factored in to the total EXP, not to what degree. =D

[Coot]

OP has a good point. If this HP system stays for release I see lots of people just AFKing in their base and receiving the same amount of HP as if they were participating.

HP should be awarded the same way XP does, by kills/assists/objective gameplay.

[Hipnox]

ItsThatGuy, on November 11 2012 - 10:27 PM, said:

You said the game becomes incredibly boring if you're not able to buy/earn new items, mechs, weapons, etc. You mention Combat Arms but what other Free-to-play games do you feel handle the grind vs pay mechanic better_

Variety is the name of the game. If by being a free player you are unable to make any big modifications to your game without requireing several days of grinding, the free community will leave this game.

Combat Arms (and Blacklight) do this much better by allowing players the ability to rent items on a per day basis. Grinding for months to buy a Sharpshooter, only to realize i hate the Sabot rifle is cause enough for a player to leave this game and never look back. A Renting system allows you to try items and mechs without spending obscene amounts of playtime

but this is something for another thread.