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CB2 Bullet Points from a Beta Tester


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#1 defekt

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Posted November 14 2012 - 03:41 AM

The Good
  • You let me play it.  <3
  • HUD tweaks are sweet, esp. visibility of health during heal/scope/turret.
  • Additional sounds are nice; more ‘metallic’.
  • Performance seems to have improved, slightly.  Can’t complain about an upward trend!
  • New maps and map alterations are generally pretty neat.
  • Mech selection for CB2 offered variety enough given the duration of the event.
  • XP syncing seemed to be much improved compared to CB1 but work is still needed (I still dropped all XP from a game roughly every 1 in 5 games).
  • Matchmaking is a step in the right direction.
The Not-So-Good
  • Frame rate drops.  Yeah, I know, it’s not fully optimized yet so I’ll say no more about that.
  • Matchmaking will still pit lvl0 mechs against fully specced ones and given how the system seems to work that will continue to happen.

Spoiler

  • Stacked teams.

Spoiler

  • Rewarding progress with ever taller stacks of buffs is the wrong approach, IMHO.

Spoiler

  • Vulcan is either too powerful or it should not be mounted on A/B-class mechs.
  • C-class turret mode is still at best lacklustre and at worst a death sentence.

Spoiler

  • It’s easy to eyeball a C-class mech at medium distance and beyond, but the A and B-class machines aren’t so distinguishable.
  • Sticky terrain.

Spoiler

  • Double-tap boost is too sticky.

Spoiler

  • If you’re being impacted by weapons fire you should be able to hear it - clearly!

Spoiler


Thank you.

Edit: Cleaned up errant spoiler tags.

Edited by defekt, November 14 2012 - 03:50 AM.


#2 Kyrzon

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Posted November 14 2012 - 04:15 AM

Well written. A couple additions and counterpoints, if I may_

Team Stacking: At this point, the teams cannot be 'stacked' past a +/-1 difference. Games where you see 6v2 are games where the enemy has given up and left, and no one new has joined the game at that point. Unlike earlier phases in the game & play, you cannot load everyone one up onto a team without a little coordination, and other than player skill, the number of bodies on the team will end up being relatively even. Consideration - punish players (or a fashion similar) that leave from a match early to prevent the game from becoming imbalanced.

Mech Buffs through levelling; Personally, I like this system, it makes things a bit more rewarding than they stand now. If you play well in a mech at low level, you're only going to perform better as your mech levels, increasing your confidence in situations regarding standard chase, retreat and basic guerrilla tactics. Something that would be better (and require a bit less coding, if I am not mistaken) is by creating divisive play gaps in the mechs themselves (Levels 0-4, 5-9, 10-14, 15-19, 20 or larger like 0-9, 10-19, 20), or even by matching up players together based on the 'Mech Mastery' rating on the player card.

Double-tap to boost; This option feels like a great tool to get players accustomed to the boost mechanics, and even a little more immersive (like manual throttle control almost) but far and away utilizing a secondary key for boosting needs and disabling double-tap is largely more effective. Maybe remove this option altogether_

Damage effects and terrain; Please. Please please please. Dear god, please. This.

Edited by Kyrzon, November 14 2012 - 04:16 AM.


#3 h0B0

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Posted November 14 2012 - 04:28 AM

i mostly agree with all this.

Although i have had no issues with the inclines clipping.

Click me! I dare you.

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View Post[HWK]HUGHES, on March 15 2013 - 08:35 PM, said:

Oh don't always listen to h0B0. Lol.


#4 defekt

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Posted November 14 2012 - 04:38 AM

View Posth0B0, on November 14 2012 - 04:28 AM, said:

Although i have had no issues with the inclines clipping.
If you're piloting an A/B-class mech then you may not be affected by the hardstop bumps on the 'knobbly' ramps because you're more likely to be boosting your way around.  Us C-class plodders spend much more time walking and it is at these speeds where the invisible hardstop bumps take effect.

#5 defekt

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Posted November 14 2012 - 04:49 AM

View PostKyrzon, on November 14 2012 - 04:15 AM, said:

Well written. A couple additions and counterpoints, if I may_
Not at all.  Shoot...

View PostKyrzon, on November 14 2012 - 04:15 AM, said:

Team Stacking: ...  Consideration - punish players (or a fashion similar) that leave from a match early to prevent the game from becoming imbalanced.
Disagree.  There are innumerable legitimate reasons for leaving a game early and such a binary solution will only generate more ire.  Serial droppers might be detectable through back end database queries but it’s still a ‘stick’-based solution; ‘carrot’-based solutions should be encouraged.  (Devs have already commented that Hawken is to be a vegetable-based regime.)  This is not to say that auto-balancing mid-game isn’t a entirely ‘stick free’ measure, but offering the option for someone to voluntarily switch teams when the stacking warning shows goes at least some way toward adding a bit of veg back into the equation.

View PostKyrzon, on November 14 2012 - 04:15 AM, said:

Mech Buffs through levelling; Personally, I like this system, it makes things a bit more rewarding than they stand now.
One of the devs has recently commented on their plans for this side of the game.  Highly encouraging stuff.

#6 Kyrzon

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Posted November 14 2012 - 10:23 AM

View Postdefekt, on November 14 2012 - 04:49 AM, said:

View PostKyrzon, on November 14 2012 - 04:15 AM, said:

Team Stacking: ...  Consideration - punish players (or a fashion similar) that leave from a match early to prevent the game from becoming imbalanced.
Disagree.  There are innumerable legitimate reasons for leaving a game early and such a binary solution will only generate more ire.  Serial droppers might be detectable through back end database queries but it’s still a ‘stick’-based solution; ‘carrot’-based solutions should be encouraged.  (Devs have already commented that Hawken is to be a vegetable-based regime.)  This is not to say that auto-balancing mid-game isn’t a entirely ‘stick free’ measure, but offering the option for someone to voluntarily switch teams when the stacking warning shows goes at least some way toward adding a bit of veg back into the equation.

Absolutely. When i refer to punish, I only mean chronic leavers, because it's a toxic action to what is currently a growing game, and toxicity can abruptly stymie growth. Having a system set up where the more games you play in a row without leaving (up to a cap, obv) provides an HP and/or XP bonus. Yet ANOTHER good idea would be to differentiate between a public, casual game, and a competitive, ranked game.

Pardon my 'in the box' thinking, but these would also be some things that I am interested in, not only as a player, but as someone that will be investing into Hawken when it is something that is available.

Edited by Kyrzon, November 14 2012 - 10:25 AM.


#7 defekt

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Posted November 14 2012 - 10:43 AM

IIRC one of the devs did mention the possibility of rewarding players who see a game through to the end - unless I dreamt that!  Details would be up for debate, or course, I suspect it was only an embryonic idea, but even that will not punish serial leavers and in many ways I agree.  If we accept that punitive measures are indeed needed in extreme cases, I'm not convinced that serial game leaving is a crime serious enough to be worth compromising a laudable veggie-based philosophy.  This isn't a game like LoL or DOTA2 where a leaver's seat isn't filled by a newcomer, therefore I think Hawken can afford to be less judicial in this regard.

#8 Gagoloth

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Posted November 14 2012 - 10:54 AM

View Postdefekt, on November 14 2012 - 10:43 AM, said:

IIRC one of the devs did mention the possibility of rewarding players who see a game through to the end - unless I dreamt that!  Details would be up for debate, or course, I suspect it was only an embryonic idea, but even that will not punish serial leavers and in many ways I agree.  If we accept that punitive measures are indeed needed in extreme cases, I'm not convinced that serial game leaving is a crime serious enough to be worth compromising a laudable veggie-based philosophy.  This isn't a game like LoL or DOTA2 where a leaver's seat isn't filled by a newcomer, therefore I think Hawken can afford to be less judicial in this regard.
agreed.

#9 Kyrzon

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Posted November 14 2012 - 10:57 AM

I had a whole post written out, and then I scrapped it. I found the dev post you were talking about earlier about lots of changes and side-grades. It is very likely that I will wait until CB3 before I comment here again; need to see those changes!

#10 Juodvarnis

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Posted November 14 2012 - 11:01 AM

Agree on all points, especially the one with my "finger painting" :lol:

Good job, it's nice to see people that aren't lazy and actually bother making large and informative posts like this.
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*sigh*

#11 defekt

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Posted November 14 2012 - 11:06 AM

View PostKyrzon, on November 14 2012 - 10:57 AM, said:

I had a whole post written out, and then I scrapped it. I found the dev post you were talking about earlier about lots of changes and side-grades. It is very likely that I will wait until CB3 before I comment here again; need to see those changes!
Yeah, it's encouraging stuff isn't it.  I'm a happier (fuzzy) bunny for having read that.

View PostJuodvarnis, on November 14 2012 - 11:01 AM, said:

Agree on all points, especially the one with my "finger painting" :lol:
Good job, it's nice to see people that aren't lazy and actually bother making large and informative posts like this.
Finger painting is a much underappreciated art form IMO, and thanks.  :)

#12 ItsThatGuy

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Posted November 14 2012 - 12:35 PM

+1 on bullet impact sounds. I feel it is contributing to some posts about the sharpshooter being overpowered only because people aren't aware it's a sabot hitting them. I often find myself engaged in combat, noticing the red flashes for damage and thinking it's only regular bullets. Then I'll look at my health and realize otherwise.

+1 on Alleys. In general the flow of that map can be improved. It exaggerates the claustrophobia Hawken sometimes has when getting stuck on level geometry. Also, jump jetting to go up stairs is not a fun mechanic especially when it requires me to stop and refill my fuel once. Either make it so I shouldnt get up there at all or use the presumably-soon-to-be-better-working-boost-pads.

#13 DarkPulse

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Posted November 14 2012 - 01:40 PM

I love the idea for the hit sounds. Make no mistake; sound is a secret sauce in a great game. Visceral-sounding impacts work on instinctive levels. As it is, I barely even notice glass cracking - but I do notice the beeping (though it's quiet) and I'd definitely notice a deep, bassy THUNK if something heavy like a HEAT cannon walloped me.

I also agree that encouraging people to stay in matches is a good idea, and far better than an auto-balance. There's always going to be more skilled players and less skilled players, but it's not fun for anyone when a match becomes 6v2 because one side has the superior skill and the other side doesn't want any more part of it.

Edited by DarkPulse, November 14 2012 - 02:14 PM.

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#14 defekt

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Posted November 14 2012 - 02:17 PM

View PostItsThatGuy, on November 14 2012 - 12:35 PM, said:

+1 on bullet impact sounds. I feel it is contributing to some posts about the sharpshooter being overpowered only because people aren't aware it's a sabot hitting them. I often find myself engaged in combat, noticing the red flashes for damage and thinking it's only regular bullets. Then I'll look at my health and realize otherwise.
Glad I'm not the only one with these sorts of experiences well lodged under my belt!

#15 marshalade

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Posted November 14 2012 - 11:44 PM

View Postdefekt, on November 14 2012 - 03:41 AM, said:

Vulcan is either too powerful or it should not be mounted on A/B-class mechs.
C-class turret mode is still at best lacklustre and at worst a death sentence.

These 2 need to be combined. Please. It makes a lot of sense, and would turn C-classes using their abilities into a real threat, especially if they stick together.

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#16 Passenger69

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Posted November 15 2012 - 12:01 PM

I'm for auto-balancing, even without notice - whoever dies next on the OP team gets switched, have a nice day.
BUT, I'd also be for some sort of bonus for the shorthanded team, like a power play in hockey.

I disagree that the C turret ability is too weak, at least from the viewpoint of a sharpshooter playing against one. In the siege games I played, turtled rocketeers guarding the AA were almost impossible to kill.

Need a ROF/damage buff for the rocket turret, there's no reason to fear them, currently. If I see one it might get one shot off, but not a second.

LOVED the Insanity servers, all servers should be like that.

#17 3Jane

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Posted November 15 2012 - 12:10 PM

To be honest a lot of the time I am bored with the teams being imbalanced and would almost always rather switch to the other team for the challenge.

If they give the option for someone to switch voluntarily to attempt to fix an imbalance I think people will definitely use it, myself included.

Also bullet sounds yessssssss.

Edited by 3Jane, November 15 2012 - 12:10 PM.


#18 TheChaffeemancer

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Posted November 15 2012 - 02:56 PM

View Postdefekt, on November 14 2012 - 03:41 AM, said:

  • Stacked teams.

Spoiler

Kiwi has to agree with this. Coming into missile assault game where the base HPs are 1400 to 200 is incredibly discouraging (and other game modes with the respective imbalances) and is the number one way to make Kiwi go "bugger this" and go do something else. Though Kiwi is thinking you mean just one team having more players then the other (if you don't, Kiwi apologizes). Often, if one team stomped another, it's going to happen the next game as well, so why should Kiwi bother sticking around if he isn't gonna have a good fight_ Kiwi would really like to see some aftermatch shuffling work happen. Something like Best scorer in the game goes on team 1, 2 and 3 on team 2, 4th best on team 1 and so on. It'd be interesting to see how that plays out.

View Postdefekt, on November 14 2012 - 03:41 AM, said:

  • C-class turret mode is still at best lacklustre and at worst a death sentence.
  • It’s easy to eyeball a C-class mech at medium distance and beyond, but the A and B-class machines aren’t so distinguishable.
  • Sticky terrain.

Spoiler


As someone who spent most of CBE2 playing Brawler, Kiwi whole-heatedly agrees with these.

View Postdefekt, on November 14 2012 - 03:41 AM, said:

  • If you’re being impacted by weapons fire you should be able to hear it - clearly!

Spoiler



Yet another thing Kiwi agrees with. It's one of the things that are making sharpshooters and missiles so obnoxious, because unless you watch your health bar closely, you won't know what actually hit you. It's possible to watch your HP closely enough but it's unnecessary work for your eyes to do when it already needs to scan terrain, watch your targets, the radar, heat, and other things. You don't need to add watching the health like a hawk so you can spot the differences between being hit by a sabot, a missile, or just a stray AR bullet.
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#19 defekt

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Posted November 16 2012 - 03:25 AM

View PostTheChaffeemancer, on November 15 2012 - 02:56 PM, said:

Kiwi would really like to see some aftermatch shuffling work happen. Something like Best scorer in the game goes on team 1, 2 and 3 on team 2, 4th best on team 1 and so on. It'd be interesting to see how that plays out.
TBH I thought something like that happened aready.  If not then maybe I was just 'lucky' enough in my follow-up games not to see the same roflstomp team come round a second time (sans manual team switching).

#20 TheChaffeemancer

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Posted November 16 2012 - 09:55 AM

View Postdefekt, on November 16 2012 - 03:25 AM, said:

View PostTheChaffeemancer, on November 15 2012 - 02:56 PM, said:

Kiwi would really like to see some aftermatch shuffling work happen. Something like Best scorer in the game goes on team 1, 2 and 3 on team 2, 4th best on team 1 and so on. It'd be interesting to see how that plays out.
TBH I thought something like that happened aready.  If not then maybe I was just 'lucky' enough in my follow-up games not to see the same roflstomp team come round a second time (sans manual team switching).

Kiwi has not really noticed it, it's either a non-functional thing or it hates Kiwi. Usually a roflstomp lead to another roflstomp.
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