117 replies to this topic

[Beemann]

I actually ignore jammers and go specifically on what's moving very fast and has a directional marker when it comes to the radar, or I just spot targets and remember which dot they were if I truly can't just chase them down (which pretty much never happens

As for the EMP usage, while it's easy to get away from people with poor movement, it's pretty difficult to get away from an equally skilled opponent, and you're basically reliant on someone on your team to survive. In a team environment, EMP only gets stronger, as you can focus down the EMP'd target
It's also piss easy to hit with as long as you make use of the huge AOE radius
And last time we timed it it was about 4.6 seconds

[String]

I say just give specific classes access to specific items or give each class an item with no choice in the matter. Having everyone equip anything feels sloppy in a class based game. 0 readability.

[Ace4225]

String, on November 25 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

I say just give specific classes access to specific items or give each class an item with no choice in the matter. Having everyone equip anything feels sloppy in a class based game. 0 readability.

+10000 internets

Finally, an excellent idea. This could even work to balance out classes that feel OP with the option to pick any items they want.

[Beemann]

There aren't really any classes I can think of that only feel OP because they have the same access to items as everyone else
But I COULD see classes become OP/UP with limited item selection
That is, with the exception of the mobility issues with EMP, which still wouldn't be solved ultimately, because in a team setting those issues would still emerge... not to mention the other problems with it

Edited by Beemann, November 25 2012 - 09:54 PM.

[N0stalgia]

Am I the only person that prefers the hologram to the EMP_ Lay down a hologram, cloak and flank your opponent to get a second initiative - or retake the initiative if they surprised you. So much smarter and much more effective than a temporary shut down of their weapons.

As for item regeneration, I think it could go wither way.There are arguments for both and both sound reasonable. This is a good thread. I wonder what will happen...

[Beemann]

N0stalgia, on November 25 2012 - 10:50 PM, said:

Am I the only person that prefers the hologram to the EMP_ Lay down a hologram, cloak and flank your opponent to get a second initiative - or retake the initiative if they surprised you. So much smarter and much more effective than a temporary shut down of their weapons.

As for item regeneration, I think it could go wither way.There are arguments for both and both sound reasonable. This is a good thread. I wonder what will happen...

It's only good against people who don't pay attention, or who think you're dumb enough to stand still
Neither are very flattering

[Ace4225]

Beemann, on November 25 2012 - 09:52 PM, said:

There aren't really any classes I can think of that only feel OP because they have the same access to items as everyone else
But I COULD see classes become OP/UP with limited item selection
That is, with the exception of the mobility issues with EMP, which still wouldn't be solved ultimately, because in a team setting those issues would still emerge... not to mention the other problems with it

Yes, but think about it. Imagine if only C classes could deploy turrets to balance out their slower movement. And scouts wouldn't be able to use EMPs, but could use items like radar or jammer to support their more heavily-armed teammates equipped with HE, EMP, and other more offensive items... _

certain more neutral-ish items such as hologram or shield might still be available to a variety of classes.

_

[Beemann]

Ace4225, on November 26 2012 - 01:49 AM, said:

Beemann, on November 25 2012 - 09:52 PM, said:

There aren't really any classes I can think of that only feel OP because they have the same access to items as everyone else
But I COULD see classes become OP/UP with limited item selection
That is, with the exception of the mobility issues with EMP, which still wouldn't be solved ultimately, because in a team setting those issues would still emerge... not to mention the other problems with it

Yes, but think about it. Imagine if only C classes could deploy turrets to balance out their slower movement. And scouts wouldn't be able to use EMPs, but could use items like radar or jammer to support their more heavily-armed teammates equipped with HE, EMP, and other more offensive items... _

certain more neutral-ish items such as hologram or shield might still be available to a variety of classes.

_

But then who gets EMP_ Do they suddenly become required by comp meta because they can disable heavy mechs and let the A classes run in_
In every match I've played against a somewhat even/better opponent, EMP gets used pretty much whenever possible by both sides. It's very existence in the game makes the item itself crucial in duelling, and it only becomes more effective in a team setting
Do we now have to balance all the classes via items_ Do we now have to nerf/buff certain aspects of each to make up for the huge boon one item gives over another_
Do scouts then need to keep their current damage numbers because scrambler and radar are largely useless in a team environment, particularly when you consider the effects of other items_

[DarkPulse]

String, on November 25 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

I say just give specific classes access to specific items or give each class an item with no choice in the matter. Having everyone equip anything feels sloppy in a class based game. 0 readability.

Problem is that then customization only goes down to optimizations and cosmetics. Furthermore, some classes will no doubt have items that you, as a player, might barely even use.

It just means we'll see a marked increase in the numbers of mech classes that have the "useful" items versus the ones who do not.

Edited by DarkPulse, November 26 2012 - 06:43 AM.

[String]

That argument could be used to argue against other class gameplay features such as class limited weapons / abilities / body types. Forcing items to be class specific would just be another axis to balance on.

Edited by String, November 26 2012 - 10:46 AM.

[Ace4225]

Mechwarrior did this with countermeasures, and it worked fine. [only certain mechs equippable with ECM, AMS, Jump jets, etc] but true, it's not necessary for Hawken.

What I think just needs to happen is that the items take more of a countermeasure role on the battlefield. Right now, some items are simply too offensive in nature, such as the HE charge and EMP. The HE is basically an extra grenade on a mech like the infil, as the Detonator would be an extra missile. Who doesn't want extra firepower_ The EMP is obviously OP at the moment....

Turrets primarily serve as distractions... so I think they're fine as long as they stay nerfed.

What I would propose:

-instead of EMP, have comm-jammer. Upon hitting a target, disables wireless connections to items and teammates [so your deployed items stop working and you lose sight of your teammates.]

-remove HE charge and Detonator

-instead of radar, have a "spy drone" that could give you an overhead view of a part of the battlefield and help you relay info to teammates.

-make the radar-jammer an actual jammer; have it render enemy radar inactive within a given radius of item deployment rather than simply giving false signatures. Possibly could visually mess with the HUD a little too.

-have some sort of countermeasure for locking weapons like the Seeker and Hellfire missiles. I.E., an on-board [or deployable] target-jammer that breaks missile lock and perhaps also prevents the enemy from being able to see your name/health.

-make the hologram give a radar signature, or perhaps make it possible to deploy multiple holograms at once. [other than that, I'm cool with it.]

Edited by Ace4225, November 26 2012 - 10:29 AM.

[Ace4225]

Regarding my last post, I moved the topic here in case you want to respond to my item ideas:

http://community.pla...efensive-items/

[ReachH]

I don't mind the item cooldown thing, as SS I kinda rely on a few of them to get aggressive.  

I do miss the support item slot, I always had a radar jammer there. It was a great tactical tool to get good positioning on the enemy. Also allowed players to rely on their positional sense - something you don't have in fps anymore because of fvcking radar radar everywhere.

[Beemann]

String, on November 26 2012 - 10:03 AM, said:

That argument could be used to argue against other class gameplay features such as class limited weapons / abilities / body types. Forcing items to be class specific would just be another axis to balance on.

Except the game is currently balanced/being balanced around those limitations
It is not, however, balanced around class-specific items, nor is there any sign that it would be
You'd just be heaping another layer of balance issues on top of whatever issues we already have
As well, the purpose of all weapons is to damage, the items have utility functions that are entirely unique

Edited by Beemann, November 26 2012 - 02:01 PM.

[String]

You haven't really given a reason as to why it is a bad idea. You're just saying things will be different if this happens.

[KaszaWspraju]

Tell me why, hologram must make a noise_ Is this game really needs to lead the player by the hand_

[Beemann]

KaszaWspraju, on November 29 2012 - 06:39 PM, said:

Tell me why, hologram must make a noise_ Is this game really needs to lead the player by the hand_

I'm more surprised by the fact that it was used enough for you to notice

Edited by Beemann, November 29 2012 - 06:42 PM.

[KaszaWspraju]

yes, by rookies(lvlo) who have not yet met the EMP.

Edited by KaszaWspraju, November 29 2012 - 06:57 PM.