117 replies to this topic

[KaszaWspraju]

Quote

You can't hit flying targets_

Yes, it is demanding but it's good. The time spent in the air has increased monstrously to what it was before.

As I said I understand the need to increase Possibility gets a higher place on the map and and it gets the AA guns without burning all fuel but taking into account how it can be further enhanced is way to much now imho.

Edited by KaszaWspraju, November 22 2012 - 02:54 PM.

[Beemann]

KaszaWspraju, on November 22 2012 - 02:53 PM, said:

Quote

You can't hit flying targets_

Yes, it is demanding but it's good. The time spent in the air has increased monstrously to what it was before.

As I said I understand the need to increase Possibility gets a higher place on the map and and it gets the AA guns without burning all fuel but taking into account how it can be further enhanced is way to much now imho.

Air targets are some of the easiest targets in the game. As soon as you figure out the right leading it'll all click and you'll never take issue with them again

[Izayoi]

I love the regenerating items. It definitely helps the flow of the game and makes items feel far more useful than they were before.

Same with the mech speed and additional fuel, I really like it.

Game feels a lot more solid than it did in Alpha and CB1/2.

[Sparkard]

Well, tbh i like regenerating items,it's just too spammy atm. They could use a minute or two more of cooldown.
I have no problems with emp, it's not hard to dodge it, hard to hit enemies in air (or at least i'm very rarely hit when in air) and doesn't shut you off for too long.
I use mg/rocket turret and scrambler. If i'm playing against better players it's beneficial for me to come silently from side, drop a jammer and unload few loads of rockets for free, or close the gap without that ugly berserker or meaby infiltrator knowing where to shoot his grenades to hit my face after me getting around the corner to hit him. And new players often get completly confused.
You see someone shooting at you and your mates from a better position_ Quickly hide, drop a jammer and boost around him to unload few rockets at his back.

Edited by Sparkard, November 22 2012 - 06:04 PM.

[SamSlade]

It blows... there's no real planning anymore.  No setting a trap, no dynamic teamwork because you're all out of items and need each other.

It's more a case of EMP - spam weapons - run away... repeat.  The teamwork in Alpha was great.. you needed it to make an impact.  Now it feels like we're headed down the long WoW/WoT grind or die path... I'll pass on that and go play CS:GO and MWO.

EDIT: you've also made a few items useless... the Hologram used to be great because a sabot/slug rifle combined hit was epic... harder to land but epic in damage... loved it.  Now... missile missile missile missile.. bored.

Edited by SamSlade, November 22 2012 - 08:22 PM.

[Dreizehn]

You obviously haven't run into tightly knit teams. Items don't change the fact that while I'm chasing someone down for a kill, he actually had a mate ready to intercept ram me in the face and take me out.

Items aren't so damn overpowered that it completely negated teamplay. If there's a lack of teamwork, it's because some people just can't read the flow of the game or don't bother communicating. Often both.

[Beemann]

Dreizehn, on November 22 2012 - 08:42 PM, said:

You obviously haven't run into tightly knit teams. Items don't change the fact that while I'm chasing someone down for a kill, he actually had a mate ready to intercept ram me in the face and take me out.

Items aren't so damn overpowered that it completely negated teamplay. If there's a lack of teamwork, it's because some people just can't read the flow of the game or don't bother communicating. Often both.

Actually, they can and do negate teamplay (not completely, but nobody's seriously arguing that anyway... strawman harder )
I fight 2v1's more easily when I can disable or kill someone quickly, and items let me do that
Similarly, if I'm fighting two people, I stand a much better chance if they've both blown their loads on some other poor sucker instead of waiting to chain emp me or some other horrific thing
Theres quite a few items that take a lot of though out of the game as they currently stand, and could use a little bit of attention

Edited by Beemann, November 22 2012 - 09:28 PM.

[HugeGuts]

The only thing I'm starting to question is the change to mech speeds. Using a C class, I'm noticing situations I can't run away from like I could in CBE2. The obvious solution is to run away sooner. However, that's not as fun as waiting until the last moment, then successfully breaking away with movement optimizations. If I wait until the last moment now, my slow butt gets destroyed every time.

Edited by HugeGuts, November 22 2012 - 10:59 PM.

[Ace4225]

HugeGuts, on November 22 2012 - 10:58 PM, said:

The only thing I'm starting to question is the change to mech speeds. Using a C class, I'm noticing situations I can't run away from like I could in CBE2. The obvious solution is to run away sooner. However, that's not as fun as waiting until the last moment, then successfully breaking away with movement optimizations. If I wait until the last moment now, my slow butt gets destroyed every time.

I noticed this too. The slowing of the C-class hurts it tremendously. I used to be OK with the zerker and unstoppable with my Brawler. Now I do better with the zerker and can barely stay in a fight with the Brawler, simply because I can't maneuver quickly enough to stay active in the fight. Little scouts run circles around the C-classes, spamming their mini-flaks.. and it works.

[Beemann]

The B and C mobility nerf was entirely unnecessary. I could already run circles around most B and C pilots
That said I'm also really not liking the fact that I'm basically forced to play with near-stock health

[Dreizehn]

I managed to steamroll my way through victory in a Brawler a number of times last night. I had no trouble completely wiping out other B/C Classes.

A-Classes did give me trouble. And you know what_ I think they should! It'd be a bit unfair if the fatty Brawler and its Flak Cannon and up and simply mow down every bloody class in the game.

And even so, Scouts play a very dangerous game against the Brawler. One small mistake and they will go down. A good way is to predict their dashes and slam directly into them, firing both Flak and TOW, damaging yourself be damned. Brawler victories against Scouts do come at a hefty price, almost always resulting in a death should his mates be around to finish the job.

But hey, the Brawler's high armour and close range weapons come at a cost.

[defekt]

Beemann, on November 22 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

defekt, on November 22 2012 - 09:39 AM, said:

CB3 is the first of these closed test sessions that I've taken part in where I feel discouraged from taking a Jammer/Radar/Shield over something like a HE/Detonator or an EMP.  For me that is a stronger signal than anything that you can say to me that some things are being pushed in the wrong direction.

Really_ You took Jammer or Radar over EMP before_
Why_

Still do.  The Jammer makes flanking a more successful undertaking.  With a good flanking manoeuvre I can nail two or three mechs whereas the EMP only grants me one attack with no reply against one (sometimes two) mechs.

Beemann, on November 22 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

TBH EMP doesn't belong in the Defensive slot. It should have been in the Offensive slot from the start (because Radar and Jammers can't measure up to disabling the offensive capabilities of an opponent, especially in organized play)

Agreed.

Edit: ...Although not particularly for the reason that you cited.  Horses for courses.

Beemann, on November 22 2012 - 01:36 PM, said:

The problem however, with your position on item regen, is that it only takes pubs into account. Organized play is only hurt by items per spawn.

This is where we disagree.  It is my opinion that infinite items cheapen organised play, not enhance it.  It’s just too forgiving.

Edited by defekt, November 23 2012 - 04:51 AM.

[defekt]

HugeGuts, on November 22 2012 - 10:58 PM, said:

The only thing I'm starting to question is the change to mech speeds. Using a C class, I'm noticing situations I can't run away from like I could in CBE2. The obvious solution is to run away sooner. However, that's not as fun as waiting until the last moment, then successfully breaking away with movement optimizations. If I wait until the last moment now, my slow butt gets destroyed every time.

My poor Brawler is now slower than the speed of dark and it really, really hurts; they were super-slow to begin with but now they're borderline glacial.  I've adapted to a degree but the speed reduction is yet more pain inflicted upon an already wounded class*.  (Remember, they still effectively have no useful special abilities.)  The Bs were perhaps a tad too fast previously, that's all.

* Sans the Rocketeer which is an aberration soon to be walloped by the Balance Hammer^tm.

[Beemann]

defekt, on November 23 2012 - 04:49 AM, said:

Still do.  The Jammer makes flanking a more successful undertaking.  With a good flanking manoeuvre I can nail two or three mechs whereas
the EMP only grants me one attack with no reply against one (sometimes two) mechs.

Then you aren't making good use of it
I've never had a jammer actually harm my combat effectiveness, but I HAVE had some good flanking manoeuvres occur as a result of the EMP, and I've disabled 3-4 people with it at times (at least, I used it and saw people scatter like bugs from under a rock, so I can only assume )

defekt, on November 23 2012 - 04:49 AM, said:

This is where we disagree.  It is my opinion that infinite items cheapen organised play, not enhance it.  It’s just too forgiving.

Except you'd still have those "infinite items"
They'd just be gained through cycling suicides
You just used up all your items_ Go kill yourself so we can pull off a teamfight
We just won a teamfight_ Anyone who popped EMP needs to die right now so we can use it for the next one
We don't need to add an advantage to the loser in comp play It's like handing the RA to the guy with the lower score in Quake. Why fight normally if your enemy is going to get stronger as a result_

[defekt]

Beemann, on November 23 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

defekt, on November 23 2012 - 04:49 AM, said:

Still do.  The Jammer makes flanking a more successful undertaking.  With a good flanking manoeuvre I can nail two or three mechs whereas
the EMP only grants me one attack with no reply against one (sometimes two) mechs.

Then you aren't making good use of it
I've never had a jammer actually harm my combat effectiveness...

Then you haven't seen it used properly.  

Yes, I can apply pre-school logic to an argument as well.  Irritating, isn't it.

[Beemann]

defekt, on November 23 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

Beemann, on November 23 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

defekt, on November 23 2012 - 04:49 AM, said:

Still do.  The Jammer makes flanking a more successful undertaking.  With a good flanking manoeuvre I can nail two or three mechs whereas
the EMP only grants me one attack with no reply against one (sometimes two) mechs.

Then you aren't making good use of it
I've never had a jammer actually harm my combat effectiveness...

Then you haven't seen it used properly.  

Yes, I can apply pre-school logic to an argument as well.  Irritating, isn't it.

While a jammer is completely nullified through situational awareness and teamwork (calling targets), being disabled for 4 seconds isn't

And 4 seconds is enough for quite a bit of extra damage, especially if you decide to take advantage of the lack of return fire and blast one or more enemies to smithereens with well-placed items

[Sparkard]

@Beemann:

defekt, on November 23 2012 - 03:29 PM, said:

Beemann, on November 23 2012 - 01:59 PM, said:

defekt, on November 23 2012 - 04:49 AM, said:

Still do.  The Jammer makes flanking a more successful undertaking.  With a good flanking manoeuvre I can nail two or three mechs whereas
the EMP only grants me one attack with no reply against one (sometimes two) mechs.

Then you aren't making good use of it
I've never had a jammer actually harm my combat effectiveness...

Then you haven't seen it used properly.  

Yes, I can apply pre-school logic to an argument as well.  Irritating, isn't it.

Or you're not using your radar properly
Jammer also provides you with better escape ability.
Example situation (and it worked that way for me many times actually):
Bazaar, attacking enemy close to their base, low on health, 2 enemies start the chase from a bit longer distance.
Boost back through the valey, upon losing sight of enemy (e.g. near AA), drop your turret, drop the jammer, lauch your explosives to the valley's chokepoint, jump behind the corner and start repairing. If they consider you a formidable enemy, they'll think twice before engaging when there's possibility that you're not alone there (and many times for me it was enough to stop them). If they'll decide to continue the chase, they may now kill the turret and look for the jammer giving you some more time for repairs or simply pass by it and there are high chances they won't notice you. Now if your mates are actually planning to help you, you have them surrounded and they don't even know about it. I think i don't have to explain how to take advantage of it, of cours now you may find yourself surrounded if you won't do it right but that's another topic. EMP here would just work as a minor distraction and not a life saver.
You may say that you won't fall for such a simple trick, but that just doesn't change the fact it worked for me enough times to call it a viable tactic.

Beemann, on November 23 2012 - 03:58 PM, said:

And 4 seconds is enough for quite a bit of extra damage, especially if you decide to take advantage of the lack of return fire and blast one or more enemies to smithereens with well-placed items

Whoah it's whole 4 seconds_ Feels more like 2 at best. And sometimes it lasts for less than half second but that must be some bug. I don't find EMP harming unless some REALLY knows when to use it or he's heading straight at me and i got stucked in terrain. Usually it's just get hit -> dash behind a corner -> keep on attacking now that you took some heat off from your weapons.

[Ace4225]

Dreizehn, on November 23 2012 - 03:24 AM, said:

I managed to steamroll my way through victory in a Brawler a number of times last night. I had no trouble completely wiping out other B/C Classes.

A-Classes did give me trouble. And you know what_ I think they should! It'd be a bit unfair if the fatty Brawler and its Flak Cannon and up and simply mow down every bloody class in the game.

And even so, Scouts play a very dangerous game against the Brawler. One small mistake and they will go down. A good way is to predict their dashes and slam directly into them, firing both Flak and TOW, damaging yourself be damned. Brawler victories against Scouts do come at a hefty price, almost always resulting in a death should his mates be around to finish the job.

But hey, the Brawler's high armour and close range weapons come at a cost.

You must not have played against any really strong A-classes....

if you played CB2, you would know there was nothing wrong with the walk speed of the C-class then; they were just fast enough that they could maneuver around weapons almost as well as the other classes. Now, with the downgrade, their maneuvering is practically useless as there isn't a single point where a good pilot wouldn't be able to continue laying down fire on them.

I find it insanely easy to down C-class pilots now; to the point that I feel bad that they're even attempting to go up against my zerker.

And [this guy] used to dominate matches with a Brawler... I'm quite familiar with it, and am upset by the fact they made my favorite class useless.

Edited by Ace4225, November 23 2012 - 06:27 PM.

[KaszaWspraju]

CB3 I hope that the only test speed of movement A B C classes. In CB2 game speed was adequate and needed only a little help getting to higher places on maps. Refine the upgrade tree, no more A-class with 670 HP and more speed, and devs have a more or less this ready, in my opinion.

Now each of the game modes, it's simply running and shooting.

Edited by KaszaWspraju, November 23 2012 - 07:01 PM.

[Dackstrus]

I'm honestly fine with the changes they made, Except to Seige.... Now my main mode is boring.

I absolutly ADORED the insanity matches, And i pray they will keep one or two high pop servers around come open beta.

They take no time now, And what i liked to do, was energy carry. Get one guy to watch my ass, and the rest of the team off the point  since they wanted to kill more then carry. And i would just trundle back and forth being credit to team. The matches, if both teams played well, would go on awhile yeah, but it's called Seige... It gives the most EXP out of the game modes, Make the mode your "Summoners Rift" It lasts longer, but is more rewarding.