117 replies to this topic

[KaszaWspraju]

These are two of the worst changes in my opinion.

• Items now regenerate after a set amount of time.
  
  
• Items are now divided into just two categories: Offensive Items and Support Items (the old Defensive and Functional categories are now "Support")

Ad1
I do not have to worry and plan when, where and how to use items, just wait a little bit, they never run out.

Ad2
With this change devs drastically limited number of items to be taken into account by the player.
I think now most often will be selected: EMP,  MG-Turret and grenade.
Who would not want a regenerate EMP.


NEXT

• Mech movement has been rebalanced: Mech B and Mech C move slightly slower, but all mechs can use thrusters for longer periods of time

In my opinion, the last thing this game needs is to increase the speed difference between classes,taking into account how it can be further enhanced.

The same applies to: "mechs can use thrusters for longer periods of time". Again, too simplify the game, increasing the pace.


FINALLY SIGE MODE

• Siege Mode: Bases now have 2 base health instead of 3
  
  
• Siege Mode: Energy Unit (EU) sources no longer run out of energy when in dispensing mode

Sige mode is to fast now, and the applied solution  for problems form CB2 unfortunately ruined this mod pretty much.

Just enough to reduce the possibility of shooting down battleship to a minimum, If not shot up at least once or twice with AA.
Slightly increase speed of filling EU the mech and the station.

Talk about sige mode takes place in this topic

Edited by KaszaWspraju, November 20 2012 - 05:48 PM.

[Ace4225]

I disagree..

Many people asked for items to regen so we could use them more often [and keep the terms of engagement balanced]. And I rather like the modifications to jump/boosting. There were a lot of issues in CB2 with ppl not being able to make simple jumps or have enough fuel to successfully escape... now that's fixed.

Edited by Ace4225, November 20 2012 - 05:45 PM.

[Ollie]

I agree.  I don't want regenerating item cool down.  If you shoot your load with items, too bad!  I'm not playing WoW over here.  Moreover, I want the option to throw *two* grenades at the fuzzy bunny following me.  It just became much harder to play a distance/position game...and the game of position is what sort of defines "mech" type games to me.

edit:  Also, siege changes are *way* too fast, but I've already posted to the other thread.

Edited by Ollie, November 20 2012 - 05:48 PM.

[Trakel]

I'm inclined to agree, I don't really like the regeneration of items. You are deployed to the field with X amount of equipment, as you use the equipment it's lost permanently as it should be. We're in mechs here, not mobile factories for grenades, repair charges, etc.

I would agree to the ability to rearm yourself in Seige, Missle, and possibly Team DM matches at a placed station in the game.

[KaszaWspraju]

Ace4225, on November 20 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:

I disagree..

Many people asked for items to regen so we could use them more often [and keep the terms of engagement balanced]. And I rather like the modifications to jump/boosting. There were a lot of issues in CB2 with ppl not being able to make simple jumps or have enough fuel to successfully escape... now that's fixed.

So you just want to be more easily for you to play Hawken, well I read between the lines_

With these changes, will limited tactical element. I know this is not a simulator but let's not make the Hawken another brainless, present, casual shooter.

Edited by KaszaWspraju, November 20 2012 - 05:56 PM.

[Ollie]

Trakel, on November 20 2012 - 05:50 PM, said:

I'm inclined to agree, I don't really like the regeneration of items. You are deployed to the field with X amount of equipment, as you use the equipment it's lost permanently as it should be. We're in mechs here, not mobile factories for grenades, repair charges, etc.

I would agree to the ability to rearm yourself in Seige, Missle, and possibly Team DM matches at a placed station in the game.

Even without the realism argument, it's also a way to put a check on someone going 10 and 1.  Someone mentioned something about regen EMPs earlier....

[Trakel]

KaszaWspraju, on November 20 2012 - 05:51 PM, said:

Ace4225, on November 20 2012 - 05:44 PM, said:

I disagree..

Many people asked for items to regen so we could use them more often [and keep the terms of engagement balanced]. And I rather like the modifications to jump/boosting. There were a lot of issues in CB2 with ppl not being able to make simple jumps or have enough fuel to successfully escape... now that's fixed.

So you just want to be more easily for you to play Hawken, well I read between the lines_

I think that's a lot of what this is. If you opt to use your thrusters to hover and make your mech harder to target with motion predicted weapons, you shouldn't also have enough thruster energy left to run away should the hovering tactic fail. I think the same can be said with the regenerating items issue. Before, they were a tool that helped you defeat an enemy - once. After they were used, it was up to your ability to play the game to ensure your survival and how well you did without anything to help you.

Edited by Trakel, November 20 2012 - 05:58 PM.

[Hipnox]

Still downloading CBE3 but..

Regenerating item is not bad in concept. it all depends on how fast the regen is.

a 10 seconds regen for an EMP is absurd, wereas a 60 - 80 second regen is not.

[h0B0]

I had no issue with either fuel or items in CBE2.
I do not understand what they wish to accomplish with these changes.

[Necro]

Trakel, on November 20 2012 - 06:11 PM, said:

What I did suggest though was placing in some modes (I had seige and missle in mind, maybe team deathmatch) placing a station either in each home base where people have the option to go and rearm their mech with the consumables they're provided with on spawn.

This would fix just camping with items.

Check out the thread for even more detailed ideas

Thread

Edited by Necro, November 20 2012 - 07:20 PM.

[Pelax]

alpha>closebeta1>closebeta2>closebeta3

Alpha had powerful weapons, fast paced combat, tone-downed HUD, clear rules.

CloseBeta3 has BB-guns, slower combat, HUD shines like christmass tree (using 'q' will visually hide your target), rules are messy.

In my opinion seeking of 'ultimate balanced gameplay' will be more difficult to achieve 'coz Devs wants to please everyone. It's simply not possible.

[HugeGuts]

You would probably have to restrict the use of abilities then, since the current version of items are basically abilities that aren't class specific.

Also, saying "no" because it's not realistic doesn't make sense in a game that already has infinite ammo, fuel, and hull regeneration.

[Beemann]

I'm actually pretty cool with the fuel changes. I felt like just a little more emphasis on movement would put the game in a good place.
I don't however feel like they needed to create a larger speed gap

Items regen-ing is alright as long as they actually nerf items. Sure it sucks for pubs, but in comp do you really want constant zerg+spam from the losing team_ Do you want cycled suicides to replenish items_

As for the siege changes, lowering the points needed is fine, but making the ships harder to shoot down w/out the AA would have worked better IMO. The EU node change only serves to slow the pace of the match however. There's no point in shooting down enemy mechs for EU when you can just sit by your node. They should have restricted the EU further instead of making it so easy to earn... and maybe make it such that bonus EU is dropped from slain mechs (so if you kill someone pre-node they drop energy)

[RudaForce]

Not going to be able to play until tomorrow, but I'll add something in. First off, has the MG Turret been nerfed_ And can you have multiple thanks to this regenerating items feature_ If you can, then something is very, very wrong.

[Beemann]

RudaForce, on November 20 2012 - 07:55 PM, said:

Not going to be able to play until tomorrow, but I'll add something in. First off, has the MG Turret been nerfed_ And can you have multiple thanks to this regenerating items feature_ If you can, then something is very, very wrong.

You can't have multiple, but you could theoretically place one, then have the cooldown run out before it dies, giving you the ability to drop a new one the second the old one dies, a la Global Agenda
If you drop it too early the old one gets destroyed

Edited by Beemann, November 20 2012 - 07:57 PM.

[Ace4225]

The MG turret has been nerfed.. as has the Vulcan.

[I noticed the MG turret both does less damage and takes less damage to destroy]

after playing a couple hours, my initial reactions were:

-items and jets are cool now.
-weapon/chassis balancing, however, has now been upset.

But that's a topic for another thread..

EDIT: agrees that Siege plays out too fast now. Before, the third and final life point sometimes kept a team from losing. Now, it seems, a better/unbalanced team will win even quicker now.

Edited by Ace4225, November 20 2012 - 08:10 PM.

[KaszaWspraju]

this topic in one of the developers wrote something more about the changes and their counsels.

Quote

Items are now divided into just two categories: Offensive Items and Support Items (the old Defensive and Functional categories are now "Support")

With this change devs drastically limited number of items to be taken into account by the player.
I think now most often will be selected: EMP,  MG-Turret and grenade.
Who would not want a regenerate EMP.

Quote

• Items now regenerate after a set amount of time
• Items are now divided into just two categories: Offensive Items and Support Items (the old Defensive and Functional categories are now "Support")
We wanted to give this a try since it seemed to help with balancing and also allow players to use an equipped item again if they've successfully avoided death. Avoiding death for that long is no small task to be sure. Players no longer have to worry about how many items they have left, only if one is ready to use. Have no fear, players can't have more than one turret deployed at once.

There are two reasons for the regrouping. One, Support seemed to make more sense as a category and the Functional category from previous closed betas seemed unnecessary. There were only a few items there anyway. Two, we are working on a third category which will add a new dynamic to the game and should be pretty sweet when people get their hands on it.

But here you're overrated players, most of choose the simplest option: EMP plus anything else for DMG.
Few who sacrifice EMP for radar jammer, shield and so on.

Edited by KaszaWspraju, November 21 2012 - 05:14 AM.

[Raxaphan]

I got a turret and shield on my SS and I wish I could had bought EMP not that shield.
This game it's all about DM now, in every mode you play.
I enter the battles with the SS and if I see I can't play like a sniper then I'll go rocketeer because not much of a skill to land seeker's missiles.
So now you have to chosen between rabbit mechs (fast ones) or orbital cannon a.k.a. rocketeer.

[DarkPulse]

The regenerating items is interesting. Ultimately, I'm indifferent on the issue; it allows for some different strats and the like but it's not massively breaking as the cooldowns are appreciable.

Mech Movement... eh, also indifferent, though it feels like C-Class is a tad TOO slow. It's not a deal breaker for me.

Siege: Ends way too fast now. Set this back to 3 points, please.

[Hipnox]

I played a couple of matches and here's my take on these changes.

Item regeneration is fine and needed. When a mech is able to carry an infinite amount of TOW rockets and Assault Rifle rounds, as well as a regenerating special abilities, having items as a one time use feels a little inconsistent.

Say i blow my load on the first guy i see, i know i wont be able to use them again until i die. The old system "punishes" you for staying alive. And when that load is 2x HE, 1 EMP and 2x Shields, it's starts becoming really temting to just immolate yourself to get your stuff back.

Same is true in for turrets in a team games. I might be more creditto team if i just kill myself to get my turret back than if i just stay around.

Now, staying alive is not a problem, as items will come back.

With that said, the recharge item for HE might be a bit too low.



On the 2 slot system. It's fine. All they need to do is place EMP on the offensive slot and it's perfect.