117 replies to this topic

[Ace4225]

we must have had some very different matches so far in CB3.. cuz so far, my main complaint is the OP Rocketeer. [which I've used and dominated matches with]

EMP even as it is is fairly easy to recover from if you know what you're doing. Getting locked in close-quarters with a mech that has all homing weapons is a lot less fun.

Edited by Ace4225, November 21 2012 - 03:04 PM.

[Beemann]

Ace4225, on November 21 2012 - 03:02 PM, said:

we must have had some very different matches so far in CB3.. cuz so far, my main complaint is the OP Rocketeer. [which I've used and dominated matches with]

EMP even as it is is fairly easy to recover from if you know what you're doing. Getting locked in close-quarters with a mech that has all homing weapons is a lot less fun.

Getting locked in close-quarters with a mech that has weapons while you don't is much less fun TBH
And both the new C class weapons are ridiculous and spammy. I'm sure the other team has so much fun trying to run through constantly exploding tunnels on Sahara whenever AJK decides to use the RevGL

[Pap]

item regeneartion is great. in CBE when i was on a kill streak with 10 or more kills i had no items and it sux. if you can regenerate iteams by waiting long enough its fair.
also agree on the items reduced to 2. it sucks, 3 iteams was perfect. not the game seems borrrring with only 2 iteams.
and yes, siege mode now sucks tooo

[Ace4225]

Beemann, on November 21 2012 - 03:10 PM, said:

Getting locked in close-quarters with a mech that has weapons while you don't is much less fun TBH

That's why I [and probably others] suggested this:

Ace4225, on November 21 2012 - 01:14 PM, said:

it seems to me an easy fix would simply be to nerf the AOE of the EMP. [and the duration of effect a little]

[DarkPulse]

AsianJoyKiller, on November 21 2012 - 11:23 AM, said:

Pretty much.
Unless I'm placing an emergency turret to cover my ass in a retreat, my cooldown is always done by the time the turret gets destroyed.

Bonus Objective while I'm hunting down AJK for internets: Smoke his turrets before cooldown ends.

Which won't be hard, considering now all I have to do is literally fire once.

AsianJoyKiller, on November 21 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:

But it sure was easy as hell to have a turret do at least a 1/3 of the damage for you. Which was incredibly ridiculous.

And_ Several weapons and even a few items do that much damage. And yes, you may have to actually aim those, but there is this little tactic called healing, you know...

Regardless, it's moot now. They're slower, do less damage, and also are much thinner. This pleases you. It would normally make me rather displeased, but even if you nuke it, I can place another one after awhile, and I'm pretty decent at staying alive long enough to do so, so it balances out.

Ace4225, on November 21 2012 - 01:14 PM, said:

since the MG turret only takes one TOW to kill now [whereas before it was ~ 2 TOWs and a bit of primary fire] I'm hardly if ever threatened by it.

No, a single TOW took out like at least 75-90% of its health. IIRC, Turrets in CBE2 had 300 armor and I think a direct TOW hit did about 200-225.

Both likely got tweaked now, but I know all I have to do is hit the thing once and it crumples. It's now a paper-mache turret, but since I can place more than one in a given life, that negates the much weaker durability.

[KejiGoto]

I don't understand the hate on the item cool down timer. It sucked before because the only way to get your items back was to die so if you're a better player and can go awhile without dying you're at a disadvantage against those who are respawning and getting all their items back. A few times I'd let myself die just to get my items back that way my mech can pack a little extra punch when I'm in a bind. You still have to be selective when you use your items because it's a good 30 seconds or so until they are ready to go (not sure if this varies from one item to the next) and a few times I've messed up using my grenade and found myself moments later wishing I had saved it.

One thing Team Death Match needs though is a respawn timer. I noticed this on the Uptown map but a few times I'd kill someone and then start to repair my mech only to have that same person I just killed come down on top of me for an easy kill. A 10 second timer would definitely keep this from happening because being able to instantly jump back in doesn't give the person you were fighting much time to move away and try to heal especially if there is a lot of action going on.

[DarkPulse]

KejiGoto, on November 21 2012 - 11:34 PM, said:

One thing Team Death Match needs though is a respawn timer. I noticed this on the Uptown map but a few times I'd kill someone and then start to repair my mech only to have that same person I just killed come down on top of me for an easy kill. A 10 second timer would definitely keep this from happening because being able to instantly jump back in doesn't give the person you were fighting much time to move away and try to heal especially if there is a lot of action going on.

Repair boosters or else move somewhere else to heal, that's common sense.

(Also, more situational awareness, so that he doesn't leap on you as easily.)

[Ace4225]

DarkPulse, on November 21 2012 - 11:16 PM, said:

No, a single TOW took out like at least 75-90% of its health. IIRC, Turrets in CBE2 had 300 armor and I think a direct TOW hit did about 200-225.

It always took me at least 2 direct TOW hits to stop a turret in CB2.

In CB3, every time I hit a turret with a TOW, it's done in one hit. Even you said that. I don't get where you're getting those figures from, but it doesn't really matter.

[Ahmintar]

Hipnox, on November 21 2012 - 08:58 AM, said:

I played a couple of matches and here's my take on these changes.

Item regeneration is fine and needed. When a mech is able to carry an infinite amount of TOW rockets and Assault Rifle rounds, as well as a regenerating special abilities, having items as a one time use feels a little inconsistent.

Say i blow my load on the first guy i see, i know i wont be able to use them again until i die. The old system "punishes" you for staying alive. And when that load is 2x HE, 1 EMP and 2x Shields, it's starts becoming really temting to just immolate yourself to get your stuff back.

Same is true in for turrets in a team games. I might be more creditto team if i just kill myself to get my turret back than if i just stay around.

Now, staying alive is not a problem, as items will come back.

With that said, the recharge item for HE might be a bit too low.



On the 2 slot system. It's fine. All they need to do is place EMP on the offensive slot and it's perfect.

Now why would you blow your item loadout on the first guy. Your saying you need items to get kills. Which is not the way you play this game. In CBT2 I would go in many fights and not use an item. Learned to save them for when I "Really" needed it. Looking ahead of yourself and see the situation serperated the noobs from the pros.

[defekt]

KejiGoto, on November 21 2012 - 11:34 PM, said:

I don't understand the hate on the item cool down timer. It sucked before because the only way to get your items back was to die so if you're a better player and can go awhile without dying you're at a disadvantage against those who are respawning and getting all their items back. A few times I'd let myself die just to get my items back that way my mech can pack a little extra punch when I'm in a bind. You still have to be selective when you use your items because it's a good 30 seconds or so until they are ready to go (not sure if this varies from one item to the next) and a few times I've messed up using my grenade and found myself moments later wishing I had saved it.

I don't like it because it heavily dilutes a fundamental aspect of any good tactical game: resource management.  Where you felt that 'it sucked' to blow your load in the first encounter and then have nothing left to keep you alive for kill after kill (clearly, you weren't being that heavily hindered) I found that non-regenerative items acted as a soft balancing mechanic to give the weaker players a way back into a game.  Now the strong players only have to wait 45 seconds or so to have everything back again.  It's fuzzy bunny, frankly.  It simplifies and dumbs down the game, something that I thought Hawken wouldn't indulge in.

This change, coupled with only having two slots available, has pretty much knackered an important aspect of play down to being merely spamming EMP and HE.  (Where team stacking was the defining characteristic of CB2, spamming may end up being the defining characteristic for CB3.)

Radar Drone and Radar Scrambler: two new names to add to the Endangered Species register.  Haven't seen a single one of either in the course of ten games.  Why would you if it meant you had to give up a regenerating burst weapon.  Big mistake, guys.  Huge.

[defekt]

Ahmintar, on November 22 2012 - 03:19 AM, said:

Now why would you blow your item loadout on the first guy. Your saying you need items to get kills. Which is not the way you play this game. In CBT2 I would go in many fights and not use an item. Learned to save them for when I "Really" needed it. Looking ahead of yourself and see the situation serperated the noobs from the pros.

I wouldhave 'Liked' this if I were allowed to.  Quotas.

[Pap]

resource managment is important i agree, but also if you are not getting killed for the entire game it kinda sucks to not have the items regenerate.
current regeneration timer is to low IMHO, its should be like a 2minutes or something similiar. not those 30-45secs (not sure how much it really is now)

[KaszaWspraju]

Quote

current regeneration timer is to low IMHO, its should be like a 2minutes or something similiar. not those 30-45secs (not sure how much it really is now)

It also does not work in my opinion, because it will only encourage good players and the vast majority of players will not survive on the battlefield of the two minutes. They feel will be they die just because others have items and they dont.

Edited by KaszaWspraju, November 22 2012 - 05:32 AM.

[defekt]

Pap, on November 22 2012 - 05:08 AM, said:

resource managment is important i agree, but also if you are not getting killed for the entire game it kinda sucks to not have the items regenerate.

That is an example of the logic that escapes me about this change: if you're not dying for the entire game then you clearly don't need regenerating items.

[Hipnox]

Ahmintar, on November 22 2012 - 03:19 AM, said:

Now why would you blow your item loadout on the first guy. Your saying you need items to get kills. Which is not the way you play this game. In CBT2 I would go in many fights and not use an item. Learned to save them for when I "Really" needed it. Looking ahead of yourself and see the situation serperated the noobs from the pros.

I might NEED to blow mi load on the first guy. you say save it for when you "really" need it. what happens if you "really" need it 30 seconds after spawning_

And yes, items get you kills. In fact, 1 time items only encourage people to kamikaze into the fight, blow their load of HE and EMP, die and repeat the process.

Sure, you will die a lot, but you will also get a lot of kills too.


I said it before and i¡ll say it again. Item regen is a GOOD thing. It rewards players that are good/cautious enough to stay alive for several minutes at a time instead of punishing them for not dieing.

Some mention a balance issue, like newbie players restocking items while "pros" that stay alive. I don't buy it, mainly because :

a- Since you said "pros learned to save them for when I "Really" needed it.", pros don't need items to get kills.

b- landing an EMP or HE on a competent opponent require a fair bit of precision. Precision that new players don't have. Agains a skilled opponent, HEs are useless. EMPs are a little easier to land, but you still need to do damage to make it worth it.

c- When i engage in a fight, i always assume my opponent is packing items. If i get too close, i assume i'll have to dodge an EMP or HE at some moment or other. If he doesn't throw any, he might not have them, or he might be saving it for that "really" important moment.

Edited by Hipnox, November 22 2012 - 06:54 AM.

[defekt]

Hipnox, on November 22 2012 - 06:49 AM, said:

I said it before and i¡ll say it again. Item regen is a GOOD thing. It rewards players that are good/cautious enough to stay alive for several minutes at a time instead of punishing them for not dieing.

Cobblers.  If they stay alive for so long they evidently don't need more items.

[Manoloco]

AsianJoyKiller, on November 21 2012 - 11:24 AM, said:

...
But it sure was easy as hell to have a turret do at least a 1/3 of the damage for you. Which was incredibly ridiculous.

Ridiculous indeed, it lent to many camping techniques that slowed the pace of the game, players just waited until their turret started firing and the acted as "support" for the turret, then, the possibilities for camping escalated if more people in the team coordinated turret placement and "turret support" techniques.

In short, it was leading to a slow campy game.

I think the changes made to turrets benefit the game and player skill.

[Lazoraz]

I dislike what Seige has become. I LOVED everything about Seige and the gameplay in CB1/CB2. I don't like the map changes in Sahara, I don't like the energy tree changes. It all leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I know people had a big discussion about how Sahara and Seige needed to be changed/tweaked. I don't like what it's become. Seige and Sahara were perfect as it was.

And I'm not a HUGE fan of regenerating items, but I won't exactly complain too much. I feel like it might be best to leave them as one time use so that a winning team can't keep using super powerful items. Give the losing team some breathing room. But again, this change doesn't bother me too much.

But that's just my opinion, pretty sure it will get buried under everything else.

Edited by Lazoraz, November 22 2012 - 08:15 AM.

[KaszaWspraju]

And what you think about  : use thrusters for longer periods of time.

For me overboard, now instead of one to overcome such a ramp upwards, can easily jump to a height of two and still have a lot of fuel in reserve. Where is the place for learning maps.

A - class mech just flies around the map and overcome larger distances are no problem

TDM changed into a bunnyhoping fest.

I understand the need to increase Possibility gets a higher place on the map and and it gets the AA guns without burning all fuel but taking into account how it can be further enhanced is way to much now imho.

Edited by KaszaWspraju, November 22 2012 - 08:32 AM.

[Hipnox]

defekt, on November 22 2012 - 07:42 AM, said:

Hipnox, on November 22 2012 - 06:49 AM, said:

I said it before and i¡ll say it again. Item regen is a GOOD thing. It rewards players that are good/cautious enough to stay alive for several minutes at a time instead of punishing them for not dieing.

Cobblers.  If they stay alive for so long they evidently don't need more items.

With that attitude you could just remove items entirely.