128 replies to this topic

[Necro]

After an hour of playing the scout here are my impressions of it so far.

Summary.
In my experience with using the scout and playing with the Mini-Flak and TOW I feel  the mini Flak should be given a smaller spread or change it's secondary weapon because having the TOW paired with a close range weapons feels kinda odd because of the damage you get from firing it at close range. With this mech fight dirty, disorient the target. Use your ability to get around so you can get to fights faster. c mechs are easy to kill, anything with automatic weapons is a bit harder.


Longer version.

I used the mini flak because the flak cannon on it seems to shoot way to slow for my likes on an a mech.

Somehow I feel that the flak could be sped up and have less damage but that's because it's an A mech I'm using it on.

I currently have a 2.0ish kill streak with it through 7 games. it doesn't feel over powered really depending on what your facing and in some areas i feel under-powered. This is not a mech to fight fair with, you will lose. The plan here seems to me to get behind mechs and disorient them, also if they fly up fly under and behind them and it's a sure kill.

I get most kills with the tow, the mini flak seems to just whittle people down unless our mechs are touching and I shoot it, basically blowing holes in them.

The fuel ability is nice but not really used ​for combat.
I find i usually never run out of fuel in combat I just use it to get around, I have another suggestion for the ability for mainly combat use. Decrease the amount of time required between side boosts for a shot amount of time or possibly a short duration fight while forward boosting.

one on one with this mech is a game of dodging and getting of good shots with the tow while trying to get in closer for the mini flak but not to close to hurt yourself with the tow.
(feels kinda wired to have a tow on it for the reasons of it hurting you and needing to be close)

In groups its best to get in behind and pick of people distracted while avoiding damage.

Overall I love this mech but the tow hurting you and having a close range weapon feels like an odd mechanic but it has proven to keep it balanced and could possibly be altered in optimization to change play-styles  and it's ability doesn't usually help in combat only to survive while running or getting to places faster.

Edited by Necro, November 24 2012 - 01:40 PM.

[Nitris]

Interesting. I have yet to play the Scout, so have nothing to add.
I will keep these points in mind when I do try the Scout.

[KyRoS]

Thanks for the info. Still deciding on which mechs to try out.

[D20Face]

Miniflak has 30 DPS more than the Vulcan in its prime.

Just keep that in mind.

[Necro]

D20Face, on November 20 2012 - 08:02 PM, said:

Miniflak has 30 DPS more than the Vulcan in its prime.

Just keep that in mind.

It does indeed and that's why it feels weird having it paired with the TOW. I'm not sure the optimal firing distance to hit with every bullet but I feel that it may be right on the edge of hitting yourself with the rocket.

It's a great weapon however when you have a chance to sneak up and be unnoticed.

[Saunders]

We're researching potential mech-specific abilities for the optimization trees.  Having the Scout be immune to self-inflicted TOW damage might be something to consider.

That being said, the Scout is probably OP for high skilled players anyway!  So much fun, and super versatile.  So maybe that's a built-in counter to the Scout just running in and bringing the miniflak of death.

Question:  Would you still choose to have the Scout be immune to self-inflicted TOW damage if choosing that ability caused the TOW to do less damage_

[Akrium]

I would take it...

But I still worry about the A-Class over all eventually being blown sky high once people figure out how the mechs move and timing. Classic example of how a good class got ruined was in TFC. Eventually the scout class in that game became near useless because he could be one shot and his speed/movement didn't matter as player skill grew. I know mechs cannot be one shot, but I still worry that the A-Class will need help the longer the game plays out.

[D20Face]

Saunders, on November 20 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

Question:  Would you still choose to have the Scout be immune to self-inflicted TOW damage if choosing that ability caused the TOW to do less damage_

Yes. Even if it cut the damage in half.

[Beefsweat]

Akrium, on November 20 2012 - 08:43 PM, said:

I would take it...

But I still worry about the A-Class over all eventually being blown sky high once people figure out how the mechs move and timing. Classic example of how a good class got ruined was in TFC. Eventually the scout class in that game became near useless because he could be one shot and his speed/movement didn't matter as player skill grew. I know mechs cannot be one shot, but I still worry that the A-Class will need help the longer the game plays out.

+1 to this!

[Dreizehn]

I haven't touched the Scout, but having used the Brawler for a time - yeah self inflicted TOW damage is a bit of a problem. I find that the TOW itself isn't perfect for close quarters engagements anyway, tends to come out too slow for twitch shots to do any good. I tend to mostly use it like I would HE Charges, try to predict where they might dash or come out of cover from and shoot there and hope to catch them. Though I do use it to keep Sharpshooter's heads down, when they are too busy scoped in.

[Timber_Wolf]

From my other thread for damage values:

Timber_Wolf, on November 20 2012 - 06:07 PM, said:

Mini-flak:
Damage per shot:64
Shots/Second:2.5
DPS:160
Heat efficiency:13.1  ~7.6 seconds to shutdown
Total Damage:1216

Flak:
Damage per shot:156
Shots/Second:.8
DPS:124.8
Heat efficiency:16.3  ~6.5 seconds to shutdown
Total damage  811.2

To me, the mini-flak is a clear winner on the scout if you ignore the TOW.  You can be right in their face firing away chunking their health.  But, that puts you within range of self-inflicted TOW damage.
With the flak, you can (mostly at least) out of that range in exchange for less DPS on your primary.  I think both guns are interesting on it.

As an alternative to what Saunders said, maybe another optimization to make the flak slightly better in exchange for -more- self inflicted tow damag_.  Instead of trying to get right in their face, trying to stay in a little donut around the enemy instead.

[Necro]

Saunders, on November 20 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

Question:  Would you still choose to have the Scout be immune to self-inflicted TOW damage if choosing that ability caused the TOW to do less damage_

Summary:
Yes, this would make the game-play more smooth, some would say it ads a skill level to not damaging yourself and finding the sweet spot where the tow doesn't damage you others would just say it's clunky to not be able to fire a close range mechs gun at the risk of killing yourself.

Long version:
as it stand now close range you use mini flak and get pretty good hits but then you can't use the tow or you will kill yourself and long range you use the tow and hope for a hit to then come in with the mini and finish them off but it's (Almost) pretty much pointless to use the flak at even mid range, and if you in mid range as a scout i don't know who taught how to play games.

The way it stands with this class is i get a tow off on them come in the the flak and just before I overheat or die try to get a tow off to finish them but sometimes your too close for the option so you have to sit there and wait for your guns to cool while you just doge everything.

Edited by Necro, November 20 2012 - 09:41 PM.

[Necro]

Null double post

Edited by Necro, November 20 2012 - 09:45 PM.

[Necro]

Necro, on November 20 2012 - 09:36 PM, said:

some would say it ads a skill level to not damaging yourself and finding the sweet spot where the tow doesn't damage you others would just say it's clunky to not be able to fire a close range mechs gun at the risk of killing yourself.

Timber_Wolf, on November 20 2012 - 09:34 PM, said:

As an alternative to what Saunders said, maybe another optimization to make the flak slightly better in exchange for -more- self inflicted tow damag_.  Instead of trying to get right in their face, trying to stay in a little donut around the enemy instead.

That above suggestion would help both play styles enjoy their gameplay a lot. I would rather be able to fire both of my weapons close range but you would rather have roles for your weapons and play in the "sweet spot".

Edited by Necro, November 20 2012 - 09:45 PM.

[Astrolis]

Saunders, on November 20 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

We're researching potential mech-specific abilities for the optimization trees.  Having the Scout be immune to self-inflicted TOW damage might be something to consider.

That being said, the Scout is probably OP for high skilled players anyway!  So much fun, and super versatile.  So maybe that's a built-in counter to the Scout just running in and bringing the miniflak of death.

Question:  Would you still choose to have the Scout be immune to self-inflicted TOW damage if choosing that ability caused the TOW to do less damage_

No I would not. Instead maybe a ability where the damage taken by the scout from self-tow is halved_

The Scout is indeed a fast killing machine however I feel like its balanced cuz its uber squishy. One hellfire to the face and your around 100 hp.

Takes lots of pilot skill to really excel with a scout. Because of its lower profile I find I get stuck on out-croppings and such much more than I would with a larger mech.

Edited by Astrolis, November 20 2012 - 09:50 PM.

[Necro]

Astrolis, on November 20 2012 - 09:49 PM, said:

No I would not. Instead maybe a ability where the damage taken by the scout from self-tow is halved_

That would also be nice, it's essentially the same thing

100%  reduced self-inflicted TOW damage
50% reduced TOW damage

50%  reduced self-inflicted TOW damage
25% reduced TOW damage
(numbers are just there not balanced or anything at all)

[Astrolis]

Necro, on November 20 2012 - 09:56 PM, said:

Astrolis, on November 20 2012 - 09:49 PM, said:

No I would not. Instead maybe a ability where the damage taken by the scout from self-tow is halved_

That would also be nice, it's essentially the same thing

100%  reduced self-inflicted TOW damage
50% reduced TOW damage

50%  reduced self-inflicted TOW damage
25% reduced TOW damage
(numbers are just there not balanced or anything at all)

I feel like even 25% DMG reduction is too much. Maybe 15% at most. Its already hard enough as is to get THAT close to enemy mechs without getting wrecked in the process. Anymore than 15% would make it point less to even have the ability picked cuz the Tow on Scouts is its main mid-long range weapon.

Only rarely do I find myself up on someones face and they are still alive the the time I get that close, and if I do its easy enough to jump hover boost backwards then nail em with a tow without getting splash DMG.

Edited by Astrolis, November 20 2012 - 10:00 PM.

[Necro]

Necro, on November 20 2012 - 09:56 PM, said:

(numbers are just there not balanced or anything at all)

There just numbers, I'm not an expert on this games balance but yes I do agree that if it's too big of a chunk of damage it may not be worth it.

[Astrolis]

Necro, on November 20 2012 - 09:56 PM, said:

if it's too big of a chunk of damage it may not be worth it.

Indeed

[Sylhiri]

I tried the Scout instead of the Berserker this time around because I once tried the Mini-flak once and it kinda sucked before now it's near borderline overpowered when I compare it to something like the AR or Sub (not sure if they changed them). I have 0 problems with C mechs but I do find myself low on HP a lot and overheated much more then usual trying to clip the enemy to kill him as he scurries away. Some maps its easier due to less room for others to move in while something like Sahara is harder from the open space.

To me having the TOW and miniflak is a really good balance, the TOW is longer distance and does a lot of damage but it's usefulness in close combat plays a more strategic role while the miniflak is horrible at long/med range but a beast close range. I would rather have self-inflicted TOW damage be reduced a little rather then completely absent to avoid players bum rushing and ramming to the side of C/B mechs shooting TOWs point blank with several rounds of miniflak.