128 replies to this topic

[Astrolis]

Sylhiri, on November 20 2012 - 10:09 PM, said:

t to avoid players bum rushing and ramming to the side of C/B mechs shooting TOWs point blank with several rounds of miniflak.

But thats the fun, if you can get it and get out in one piece you get to high five all your buddies!

But on a serious not: You make a valid point. However whats to then stop Scouts from doing this to a C-Class...

... Hits with TOW at mid-range. Rushes in MF blazing, Fires TOW pointblank.

With reduced self inflicted DMG this is what scouts would always do. Unless that was your intention, I think that it may make that situation even worse for C-class or really anyone that a Scout may sneak up on.

Many a time I don't fire my TOW in CQC because it has NO reduced self inflicted DMG.

TOWs in CQC are very very very (if I didn't make it clear) VERY situational. (IMO)

[Female]

Why is a MINI flak cannon doing more damage than a Flak cannon_

Everyone is rolling scouts.

Not playing again until scouts are nerfed because the game is not fun otherwise. I play to have fun. Not to be completely and utterly destroyed by scouts left and right.

[Sylhiri]

Astrolis, on November 20 2012 - 10:23 PM, said:

Sylhiri, on November 20 2012 - 10:09 PM, said:

t to avoid players bum rushing and ramming to the side of C/B mechs shooting TOWs point blank with several rounds of miniflak.

But thats the fun, if you can get it and get out in one piece you get to high five all your buddies!

But on a serious not: You make a valid point. However whats to then stop Scouts from doing this to a C-Class...

... Hits with TOW at mid-range. Rushes in MF blazing, Fires TOW pointblank.

With reduced self inflicted DMG this is what scouts would always do. Unless that was your intention, I think that it may make that situation even worse for C-class or really anyone that a Scout may sneak up on.

Many a time I don't fire my TOW in CQC because it has NO reduced self inflicted DMG.

TOWs in CQC are very very very (if I didn't make it clear) VERY situational. (IMO)

I don't want players being able to use point blank TOWs. It would be too easy with minimum draw back, at least at medium range the enemy can dodge or retaliate. Scouts are fast little buggers and moving around C classes is pretty easy so it would basically make the fight unfair. If you reduce the self inflicted damage to a maximum of 20% then you better reduce the damage by half or increase the heat generated dramatically. I've already seen people taking full use of the increase upwards boost speed to allow them to fire the TOW without getting nailed.

[Sylhiri]

Female, on November 20 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

Why is a MINI flak cannon doing more damage than a Flak cannon_

Everyone is rolling scouts.

Not playing again until scouts are nerfed because the game is not fun otherwise. I play to have fun. Not to be completely and utterly destroyed by scouts left and right.

It could use a little bit of a damage nerf but since the fast rate of fire you usually are near overheated on a B/C Mech, no problem on A's. Flak cannon is pretty useless since it has a slow rate of fire. While your getting continually pelted by enemy weapons you slowly deal damage. Guns like the AR and Sub Gun can afford to miss a few rounds but with the Flak you really can't, unless you nail every TOW shot directly. No real reason to use the Flak instead of the Miniflak.

Edit: Why did you post another post, forums...WHYYYY

Edited by Sylhiri, November 20 2012 - 10:40 PM.

[Necro]

Sylhiri, on November 20 2012 - 10:09 PM, said:

I tried the Scout instead of the Berserker this time around because I once tried the Mini-flak once and it kinda sucked before now it's near borderline overpowered when I compare it to something like the AR or Sub (not sure if they changed them). I have 0 problems with C mechs but I do find myself low on HP a lot and overheated much more then usual trying to clip the enemy to kill him as he scurries away. Some maps its easier due to less room for others to move in while something like Sahara is harder from the open space.

To me having the TOW and miniflak is a really good balance, the TOW is longer distance and does a lot of damage but it's usefulness in close combat plays a more strategic role while the miniflak is horrible at long/med range but a beast close range. I would rather have self-inflicted TOW damage be reduced a little rather then completely absent to avoid players bum rushing and ramming to the side of C/B mechs shooting TOWs point blank with several rounds of miniflak.

Sylhiri, on November 20 2012 - 10:31 PM, said:

Astrolis, on November 20 2012 - 10:23 PM, said:

But thats the fun, if you can get it and get out in one piece you get to high five all your buddies!

But on a serious not: You make a valid point. However whats to then stop Scouts from doing this to a C-Class...

... Hits with TOW at mid-range. Rushes in MF blazing, Fires TOW pointblank.

With reduced self inflicted DMG this is what scouts would always do. Unless that was your intention, I think that it may make that situation even worse for C-class or really anyone that a Scout may sneak up on.

Many a time I don't fire my TOW in CQC because it has NO reduced self inflicted DMG.

TOWs in CQC are very very very (if I didn't make it clear) VERY situational. (IMO)

I don't want players being able to use point blank TOWs. It would be too easy with minimum draw back, at least at medium range the enemy can dodge or retaliate. Scouts are fast little buggers and moving around C classes is pretty easy so it would basically make the fight unfair. If you reduce the self inflicted damage to a maximum of ##% then you better reduce the damage by ##% or increase the heat generated dramatically. I've already seen people taking full use of the increase upwards boost speed to allow them to fire the TOW without getting nailed.

1st red text.)
A mechs in general right now have almost no problem with C mechs. Also I love the fact that I usually find myself one shot away from either death or over heating, many people don't realize if they got one more shot off on scouts they would be dead. it's not easy to stay alive as a scout.

2nd red text.)
No one wants point blank normal TOWs, way to OP but at reduced damage to yourself or reduced damage to enemies it could be viable.

3rd red text.)
Agreed, usually I only fire my tow once over in a fight because i don't want to risk killing myself.

4th red text.)
Yes no one wants point blank normal TOWs with no drawback.

1st strike.)
No, this would make the class overheat every fight, you always find yourself on the bring of overheating as this class.

2nd strike.)
If you fly in combat your dead, you might get lucky but I will boost under you and 99.9% kill you!

Edited by Necro, November 20 2012 - 11:04 PM.

[Sylhiri]

Your red text over the light gray background burns the eyes. Just saying.

[Sylhiri]

Necro, on November 20 2012 - 10:49 PM, said:

1st red text.)
A mechs in general right now have almost no problem with C mechs. Also I love the fact that I usually find myself one shot away from either death or over heating, many people don't realize if they got one more shot off on scouts they would be dead. it's not easy to stay alive as a scout.

I was just saying my experience in general from about 5 games.

1st strike.)
No, this would make the class overheat every fight, you always find yourself on the bring of overheating as this class.

I don't think it will be that drastic depending on the heat generated, you gain the ability to fire TOWs worry free but you need to manage your heat much more instead of holding down left click until dead. It would drop your DPS overall slightly instead of just TOW damage. I was just putting out the idea.

2nd strike.)
If you fly in combat your dead, you might get lucky but I will boost under you and 99.9% kill you!

You don't have to continually hover. Enough for a single shot from TOW and then drop like a rock for a dodge. A mechs I can see it not working that well but B and C it's not bad.

Bold.

Edit: I am having the worst time with quoting today, lol.

Edited by Sylhiri, November 20 2012 - 11:08 PM.

[RipperT]

Personally, I do not understand the scout having a heavy weapon like the tow, i.e. the same weapon carried by heavier class mechs. To me it seems a better secondary would be a light missle launcher similar to a nerfed version currently the Rocketeer has as primary.

Light chassis, light weapons as it were.

[Conquistador]

... I find it ironic how scout is exactly the answer to my recommendation that Berserker needs a mini flak or flak to roll against Infiltrator (if anyone remembers that thread).

... Methinks the combo may be a LITTLE BIT TOO GOOD.

While I must thank the devs for listening to me, every time a scout kills me I swallow my own bitter, bitter medicine. Highly ironic. Let this be a lesson folks. Sometimes the devs give you what you ask for... and you come to regret your folly.

Edited by Conquistador, November 21 2012 - 12:01 AM.

[Sylhiri]

Conquistador, on November 21 2012 - 12:01 AM, said:

While I must thank the devs for listening to me, every time a scout kills me I swallow my own bitter, bitter medicine. Highly ironic. Let this be a lesson folks. Sometimes the devs give you what you ask for... and you come to regret your folly.

I'm seeing a whole lot less Infiltrators though, lol.

[Conquistador]

Sylhiri, on November 21 2012 - 12:03 AM, said:

Conquistador, on November 21 2012 - 12:01 AM, said:

While I must thank the devs for listening to me, every time a scout kills me I swallow my own bitter, bitter medicine. Highly ironic. Let this be a lesson folks. Sometimes the devs give you what you ask for... and you come to regret your folly.

I'm seeing a whole lot less Infiltrators though, lol.

Alas, I've MERELY exchanged one evil for another!

[Necro]

I wanna see a flak + mini flak combo >.>

[nonsiccus]

Female, on November 20 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

Why is a MINI flak cannon doing more damage than a Flak cannon_

Everyone is rolling scouts.

Not playing again until scouts are nerfed because the game is not fun otherwise. I play to have fun. Not to be completely and utterly destroyed by scouts left and right.

While I get where you're coming from.. I've played both the Scout and Infil (more heavily in CB2), I feel like the Scout is essentially a pared down version of the infil with less burst capability in medium/close, instead favouring the close range. Without any kind of weaponry designed to deal with mid/long range (TOW is incredibly easy to dodge at mid/long range) the class is rather helpless.

I've been kited to death by (to be blunt) inferior players in this manner. I'm strongly resisting playing a class that I dominate with, for the sake of trying new things before "launch", but IMHO, the Scout is far from overpowered. At worst, it is slightly favoured on close-quarter maps like Alleys/Andromeda. (Or whatever they're called now)

[Sylhiri]

Conquistador, on November 21 2012 - 12:04 AM, said:

Alas, I've MERELY exchanged one evil for another!

Are you seeing that many of them_ I'm seeing more Assaults then anything.

[Conquistador]

Sylhiri, on November 21 2012 - 12:08 AM, said:

Conquistador, on November 21 2012 - 12:04 AM, said:

Alas, I've MERELY exchanged one evil for another!

Are you seeing that many of them_ I'm seeing more Assaults then anything.

The servers I play seem to be flooded with them. We should switch servers sometime. I'll take an assault as an opponent, any day.

[Beemann]

I'm not sure why the miniflak got so heavily buffed when the Vulcan couldn't escape the nerf bat
Especially since it's on the mech with the highest mobility in the game
Also, reducing/removing splash damage feels like it removes too much in the way of health considerations and tactical options. Besides, it's not like the Flak/Mini Flak have particularly gimped range. As far as video game shotguns go, they're in pretty good shape.... though I wouldn't mind a little more consistency in the spread pattern

[BlackCephie]

I think the scout is well balanced, and that having a TOW and MF is great synergy. Your TOW is great for inflicting damage as you close in due to its range. It is also great for popping enemies that try to run after getting eatin by your mini flak. Your ability to close distance is great. In my opinion, you really dont need to be firing a TOW at point blank anyway. Even if you did, and you and your opponent both took the damage, you still have the advantage as long as you are thoroughly in their face. 9/10 you will win that engagement. The TOW seems to be there to supplement your primary weapon's lack of range. Also, if you are good at sticking to your opponent and use the Flak instead, then you are talking about three-shotting people. You land a well placed TOW on the approach, close in, pop pop with flak at optimal range, they are toast. Even C class gets eatin by vanilla flak.

I will say however that fighting enemies that know to keep you at range with assault or SMG are good against scout, but they still have to worry about toes.

[BlackCephie]

nonsiccus, on November 21 2012 - 12:08 AM, said:

Female, on November 20 2012 - 10:25 PM, said:

Why is a MINI flak cannon doing more damage than a Flak cannon_

Everyone is rolling scouts.

Not playing again until scouts are nerfed because the game is not fun otherwise. I play to have fun. Not to be completely and utterly destroyed by scouts left and right.

While I get where you're coming from.. I've played both the Scout and Infil (more heavily in CB2), I feel like the Scout is essentially a pared down version of the infil with less burst capability in medium/close, instead favouring the close range. Without any kind of weaponry designed to deal with mid/long range (TOW is incredibly easy to dodge at mid/long range) the class is rather helpless.

I've been kited to death by (to be blunt) inferior players in this manner. I'm strongly resisting playing a class that I dominate with, for the sake of trying new things before "launch", but IMHO, the Scout is far from overpowered. At worst, it is slightly favoured on close-quarter maps like Alleys/Andromeda. (Or whatever they're called now)

This. As primarily an Inf pilot myself, I feel that I die way more in a scout because I HAVE to get all up in there. The playstyle is fun, but Inf had the AR, which ate people up at mid range, and they had the versatility and trick shots of the nade launcher. IMHO, the Inf is still better than the scout.

[Skylead]

Saunders, on November 20 2012 - 08:33 PM, said:

We're researching potential mech-specific abilities for the optimization trees.  Having the Scout be immune to self-inflicted TOW damage might be something to consider.

That being said, the Scout is probably OP for high skilled players anyway!  So much fun, and super versatile.  So maybe that's a built-in counter to the Scout just running in and bringing the miniflak of death.

Question:  Would you still choose to have the Scout be immune to self-inflicted TOW damage if choosing that ability caused the TOW to do less damage_

No, I love being able to mix the versatility of the TOW (leave the poor missile alone!) with the shredding of the mini-flac. However something will need to be done to make the Flac a more attractive choice, right now the mini-flac is definitely the way to go.

As for the fuel refiller not being useful in combat I use it all the time to chase down mechs that try to disengage and go repair. And you can use it to lose the people tailing you whenever you want. But I am a big fan of highly mobile mid-close range characters in most games so maybe I just like the playstyle too much to be objective.

[Beemann]

BlackCephie, on November 21 2012 - 10:15 AM, said:

I think the scout is well balanced, and that having a TOW and MF is great synergy. Your TOW is great for inflicting damage as you close in due to its range. It is also great for popping enemies that try to run after getting eatin by your mini flak.

All the objectives are at optimal mini-flak range, and most of them require that you move in close before engaging at all
The mini flak deals more damage than the Vulcan ever did
I don't see how it wouldn't be an issue

Edited by Beemann, November 21 2012 - 11:20 AM.