188 replies to this topic

[defekt]

The LoL community is borderline toxic - end of.  In so far as fostering a healthy community is concerned the Hawken devs would be well served not emulating the LoL approach; it wouldn’t work for Hawken anyway, the two games are intrinsically incomparable.

More veg; less cellulose.

[DarkPulse]

D3thpool, on November 22 2012 - 02:51 AM, said:

sportsmanship__
imo a gg is when its fairly matched & long game with both sides even.
but roflstomping 3 guys with a team of 6 is imo just plain trolling/arrogant

/thread

Right, so if a football team is losing 28-0, they're allowed to stomp off the field at halftime_

If you get roflstomped, you or your team were inferior, it's that simple. (Or the entire other team was cheating, but that's almost never going to happen). Someone who says "gg" afterward is usually not trying to be arrogant, they're trying to be a good sportsman. It's the equivalent of the post-game handshake.

To get back to the topic, I would think that a bonus for people who are playing shorthanded as well as for sticking it out is a good idea. As Roundlay said, positive reinforcement often works way better than negative.

[Elix]

Planetside 2, if it hasn't been mentioned already, already has an underdog bonus of sorts, although it works in a different method than it would for Hawken for obvious reasons. If a server's population is significantly imbalanced, the factions that are underrepresented will gain a bonus to experience earned and resources collected as an encouragement to fight back against superior numbers. Final Fantasy XI introduced, after a number of years, a bonus to exp rates when a party was below the maximum of six as new smaller-party play styles began to emerge. The bonus was as high as 25% if you were simply a duo, if I recall.

The devs should give careful, serious consideration to a end-of-match bonus for being outnumbered. I feel that it should be significant enough to be worth sticking out, but not so big that it's broken. Perhaps it should be a percentage of the average winning team member's exp (before boosts, of course), like 5-10%.

[Grafix]

Yes, if a team that is getting stopped in a game but a couple of people stuck it out eventhough their team mates leave the game, they should be compensated for their contribution to the match within reason of course.

[DeVact]

Quote

If a server's population is significantly imbalanced, the factions that are underrepresented will gain a bonus to experience earned and resources collected as an encouragement to fight back against superior numbers.

That's actually a really nice idea!

[NBShoot_me]

bac9, on November 23 2012 - 02:43 AM, said:

NBShoot_me, on November 23 2012 - 01:59 AM, said:

If the teams go lop-sided, I'll leave.  Like 2 vs 6, I’m not masochistic

Matchmaking system directed equal amount of players to each team. If you're arriving into a game and see there are 2 teammates vs 6 opponents, that happened exactly because someone ragequit, and fixing that problem will directly improve your experience with the game. Discouraged quitting = more balanced and populated servers that are fun to play on.

By the way, devs introduced "Switch Team" during matches, so if you're seeing numbers like these, first just try to ask people in global chat to switch. They often do, and then you can all have fun in a fair match. More than that, do it yourself too: if you're seeing that two people quit from opposing team and they need help, consider switching and helping them out.

I like doing that, it's extremely rewarding and fun to switch to a small opposing team in TDM, get into an organized pack and drag the kill score kicking and screaming from e.g. 20:5 to e.g. 30:40.

I’ve seen the player number imbalance upon joining and generally a few mins into a match.  Discouraging this through punishment generally does NOT improve gameplay experience.  Trying to punish people for quitting has in other games resulted in people finding ways around the punishment system.  Trust me, they (people in question) may not put much effort into playing the game, but they’ll work hard at trying to get around developer implemented roadblocks.

The “Switch team” button is just about a joke right now.  I’ve gotten someone to switch, maybe twice.  And at least once, maybe both times, the OTHER team emptied out.  The time I did it, I ended up on the short end of a 1 vs 2 match which didn’t help at all.

Hawken isn’t all rainbows and unicorns right now, and you can’t treat it as such.  The game currently allows for having situations where in a match, one or two people can literally dictate the outcome of which team will win.  You also have a very team oriented game, which I’ve seen plenty of keyboard commandos who are more interested in kill count than say, controlling AA or gathering energy in a turret (don’t remember the name) or siege game or following whatever the objective is.

But, seriously, what would you propose_  Other than switch teams, we have that, it’s not working.  Credit penalties could turn this into “pay 2 win” as I don’t see the devs yanking credits purchased with real money, and so far, there’s no repair / ammo costs in this game (which, as much as I die, I’d go broke anyway) so, once you’ve upgraded everything, why care about credits_  They could lock your mech while it’s in a battle, or into a gametype, but then it’d probably signal the start of people botting for credits.   The list goes on.. though, I think I'm done replying to responses that cherry pick from what I post.

Edited by NBShoot_me, November 23 2012 - 12:52 PM.

[NBShoot_me]

Grafix, on November 23 2012 - 08:47 AM, said:

Yes, if a team that is getting stopped in a game but a couple of people stuck it out eventhough their team mates leave the game, they should be compensated for their contribution to the match within reason of course.

You'd need to make sure that the team is completely random.  Otherwise, you open an exploit where a group of people join in and have some of their buddies leave during the match to farm for XP / credits.

Edited by NBShoot_me, November 23 2012 - 12:48 PM.

[Necro]

OP updated with what i feel are the most fair positive and most fair punitive measures to take in these actions.

It guards against Afks.
It gives the chance to not be punished.
It is removable by playing the game without quitting.
It solves the reason people rage quit in the 1st place.
It doesn't hurt people who have to leave for a specific reason.

(the only downside i have found so far is it can be exploited to get people into low level play but i have ideas around it.)

The reward I feel can be a simple as rewarding people playing in the same lobby for an extended amount of time.

Edited by Necro, November 23 2012 - 01:51 PM.

[Houruck]

I would hate to be punished because the client stopped working. The game crashed a lot for me lately.

[Necro]

Houruck, on November 23 2012 - 02:40 PM, said:

I would hate to be punished because the client stopped working. The game crashed a lot for me lately.

If anything was to be put in place there would be a way around dcs and crashes I would hope so no one is punished without cause.

[Worira]

This isn't LoL. There's no character development during a match and people are free to switch mechs when respawning, and therefore there's no need to enforce a consistent team roster within a match. People who leave can simple be replaced with other players. The only things needed are an autobalance system and a larger player base.

[Evex_Wolfwing]

Reward them for staying. I've had plenty of times where I sit down to play a game, then have to leave and do something else almost immediately.

In fact, I'd say that if a player leaves before the match is over, give them the points they have accumulated during that match, but give them a nice bonus for staying the whole match. It is somewhat discouraging, playing a round for a while, then having to leave just before it has finished. Perhaps reduce the amount of exp. they get during the match, then add a multiplier for staying the whole match so they would end up with about how much we get currently.

[z121231211]

How about if you quit a game and you matchmake with the same gametype and region, matchmaking will only take you back to the game you quitted_

[Nukerock]

z121231211, on November 23 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

How about if you quit a game and you matchmake with the same gametype and region, matchmaking will only take you back to the game you quitted_

No. What if you quit because the server barely had any people or you didn't like the map.

[Necro]

z121231211, on November 23 2012 - 05:29 PM, said:

How about if you quit a game and you matchmake with the same gametype and region, matchmaking will only take you back to the game you quitted_

sometimes people quit because of ping tho_

[Sylhiri]

It's pretty difficult to pin this down. From what I'm seeing is that there are two types of quitters, those who quit because they need to and those who quit because they want to. It's near impossible to give intensive to the people who need to quit because trying to keep them to stay is detrimental to them and rewarding people who don't quit won't completely solve the problem. Ragequitting is an emotional response, it's hard to have logical rewards to non-logical thinking unless it was such a great reward that it bypasses that response (which would unbalance everything).

Punishing ragequitters helps them more to learn to deal with the situation however it doesn't help anyone who needs to quit. Rewards helps persuade them to stay and play from whatever action is causing them to leave, it's a logical choice on their part. It only works about 25-40% of the time though.

EXP rewards only work until level 20, after that its completely useless.

Hawken points are better but some people specialize on one mech so it's generally cheaper to use only the mech they love to use which again puts a hitch in the EXP rewards.

Emblems/Achievements/Extras are a good incentive. People like to stand out and be unique, the most options they have the better. Having extras for staying and playing games until the end to get little goodies would be great. This could go along with points for unlockables.

Pretty much what I said before just a little more fleshed out

[Alloycat]

Generally I think encouraging players to stay, and to balance the teams numbers if needed due to others leaving, is the way to go, with some kind of xp bonus. Someting along the lines of Thygon's suggestion;

Thygon, on November 22 2012 - 12:05 PM, said:

I'm just thinking that the best way would be to reward the team who has less players. So even they are losing, they would get some extra "underdog" -XP.

So it wouldn't suck so much to lose 3vs6 situation if you could get extra xp out of it. Some kind of survivalist bonus for the time your team had less players.

However in Siege mode specifically I can see that some kind of leaving penalty might be in order, perhaps a temporary lock on entering other games and/or on gaining xp, perhaps along with a 'left Siege Mode Early' stat kept on profile. The player would need to be warned of this before entering that game mode though.

[Wyr]

I think one quit a day could be “allowed” to compensate for internet connection issues, urgent family business, biobreak, or if your cat explodes, or something like that.

The second time someone quits there should be a 10minute lockout from all games. The 3rd time 20minutes, and the 4th time 40minutes and so on.

[Avlaen]

I did have one idea to Help cure the symptom, reward people for switching to the under balanced team maybe if you otnumber them and you switch you gain a 10% xp and hawken point boost for that match, while it wont stop people RQing it should atleast help the matches to balance up after they have gone, i know i would allways switch for such a boost even if my team was winning and i did alot of that work.

Edit: this could go well with the other suggestions giving the team with less players more incentive to stay, More incentive to stay + an incentive to balance up the teams would work well and wouldnt punish anyone. (punishments could be another deterrent added on top of this too. )

Edited by Avlaen, November 23 2012 - 07:11 PM.

[Dackstrus]

People who stay start to finish get a small boost to EXP and HP.

And by small, I mean 5%. This IS an FPS game, and people will treat it as such. Picking up the controller and running off without care if get a call. It's just something that has been soaked into the FPS community. Leaving a game whenever is kinda token of them