188 replies to this topic

[RipperT]

The reason I did not vote for the reward player for changing sides is that today in a match, being on the smaller team and sort of holding on, someone changed over and we won the match. Changing sides is a gamble. Roll the dice and consider it a challenge to your ability. One other player stated in another one of those unbalanced matches where no one switched to balance; "I feel dirty", after the base fuzzy bunny was over.

It is my belief that it will be a minimal issue by the time the game goes live.

[Conquistador]

Positive reinforcement trumps negative punishment any day.

Players who leave may do so without malicious intent, such as due to intermittent internet connections and lower-end hardware crashing. Punishing people for either by implementing a "leaver" mechanism is counter-intuitive in what should be a FPS game.

I myself leave servers that have really horrible lagspikes and high latency. I don't want to be punished trying to find an optimum server that my internet can handle.

[Necro]

I've switched sides twice now, usually when my team mates are jerks about steamrolling an un-evened match, Once I lost and once I won.

Doesn't change anything though because instead of you being outmatch it's them until another player joins.
(that's of course in a 3-2 not a 4-2)

[shosuro]

Improve the team balancing, ie. reshuffle teams if there is more than 1 player difference and include timer for quitters. I finished several matches now 6vs2, 4vs1 and similar. It is no fun at all. And actually in capture modes, even one person difference will completely imbalance the match.

Punitive measures are bad, but timer is acceptable I believe.

As for rewarding people for staying, this is counterproductive. What if someone stays, but just goes afk for the whole match_ Reward for staying is his and his team is still on disadvantage. It will decrease the number of ragequitters, but might increase the number of afkers, or people that just run and hide.

Edited by shosuro, November 21 2012 - 11:18 PM.

[DarkPulse]

D3thpool, on November 21 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

also shameless gg taunting after 3vs6 is beginning to get on my nerves

That's not taunting, that's sportsmanship. Even if you're blown out, it's sportsman to say good game.

That said, 3v6 does kind of suck, but the alternative - auto-balancing - is, in a lot of ways, the much greater evil.

Edited by DarkPulse, November 22 2012 - 12:10 AM.

[Nukerock]

Personally I do not feel affected by RQing in other FPS as long as someone else arrives to replace the leaver its all good.
The problem here is that the matchmaking is not sending enough people into the games, this was not really an issue when the server browser was enabled.

You can still reward people for finishing games sure, punishing I feel is completely out of place, I've been playing FPS for a long time and the best FPS never had an issue with people leaving, most of them did not even have rewards or matchmaking and it still worked out.
If people are not having fun there's no reason for them to be. held, what does it matter to you as long as they are replaced_

Edited by Nukerock, November 22 2012 - 01:02 AM.

[Zorvaz]

Between punishing or rewarding I would suggest a reward for staying due to people sometimes having a legitimate reason for leaving. Although, both rewarding and punishing could just result in players going afk until the match is over.

Instead, they could make games where people have left a "high priority" match and send people to them before others in order to fill them up quickly after someone has left. This would hopefully solve the problem without encouraging players from going afk and just waiting to get their reward / avoiding a penalty.

[D3thpool]

DarkPulse, on November 22 2012 - 12:10 AM, said:

D3thpool, on November 21 2012 - 12:43 PM, said:

also shameless gg taunting after 3vs6 is beginning to get on my nerves

That's not taunting, that's sportsmanship. Even if you're blown out, it's sportsman to say good game.

That said, 3v6 does kind of suck, but the alternative - auto-balancing - is, in a lot of ways, the much greater evil.

sportsmanship__
imo a gg is when its fairly matched & long game with both sides even.
but roflstomping 3 guys with a team of 6 is imo just plain trolling/arrogant

/thread

imo people should be rewarded for staying in the game, but only in siege (maybe missle assault too)

Edited by D3thpool, November 22 2012 - 02:53 AM.

[S1LV3R]

tl;dr other posts, but reward is the best in my humble opinion. If you start punishing players, they eventually get sick of the game and the community will suffer eventually a lack of players instead of a growing community.

[Dread_Lord_Pitr]

Zorvaz, on November 22 2012 - 02:51 AM, said:

This would hopefully solve the problem without encouraging players from going afk and just waiting to get their reward / avoiding a penalty.

3 minute idle = kick, so...
Doubt that'll happen a lot.

[Russhole]

League of Legends punishes RQs because you get locked into a match. No point doing it in an FPS game where a new player can replace a leaver.

[Thygon]

I'm just thinking that the best way would be to reward the team who has less players. So even they are losing, they would get some extra "underdog" -XP.

So it wouldn't suck so much to lose 3vs6 situation if you could get extra xp out of it. Some kind of survivalist bonus for the time your team had less players.

[Russhole]

Not a bad idea.

[Rokth]

In another thread I noticed a few mentions of TF2 not penalizing people who abandon a game(Rage Quit). I offer an excerpt from the wiki.

Spoiler

Quote

The abandoning rules for Mann vs. Machine mode were introduced in the October 17, 2012 Patch to punish players who disconnected from Mann Up missions repeatedly. In order to fix the problem with players who "abandon" missions, a penalty system was added to lock out players who did so in Mann Up missions.
A player is considered to have "abandoned" a game if they meet all of the following criteria:

• Leave a game while playing a Mann Up game on an official server; and
  
• Have not played through a single wave to completion or failure; and
  
• There are 5 or more players currently connected to the server (including the player).

If they meet all of the criteria repeatedly, they will receive a penalty wherein they are placed in a low-priority pool and will have a lot longer to wait for matchmaking.
Otherwise, it is safe to disconnect a game without being considered an "abandoner."

Quote

If a player presses the disconnect button, the player will receive a message telling them whether it is safe to leave. The player will either abandon the game with a penalty or without depending on the occasion.

Quote

If a player loses their connection while in-game, the spot will be reserved for the player and will have 3 minutes to rejoin. If the player does not rejoin after the time is up, the player will have been counted as leaving the server intentionally. If the game has crashed or the player loses their Internet connection, then the player can then restart Team Fortress 2 and the player will be given a prompt to reclaim their spot in the match. This prompt will inform the player of the penalties they will get if they decline the spot. If the player fails to rejoin within the three minutes and they fill out the criteria listed above, then it will count the player as having abandoned the match.

Please do your due diligence and read what is outlined in the link as information can change with recent updates.

Or you can be lazy and read what I posted and just take my word for it.

Edited by Rokth, November 22 2012 - 01:44 PM.

[Russhole]

Rokth, that's for the Mann vs Machine game mode...not even close to normal TF2 gameplay.

[Necro]

But it is there regardless, i don't think the average user should be punished by the rules made but chronic quitters should be penalized if it hurts the team.

[Russhole]

I just hope that if they do try to crack down on RQs, they implement a system where it doesn't cause people to just go AFK in spawn. That's WORSE than just outright quitting, because they can't be replaced.

[Necro]

They will get kicked in 3 minutes even if they afk but yeah that doesn't sound very good.

[Coot]

I agree 100% there should be a penalty for leaving games early. Whether it be you don't get any of your exp/HC earned throughout the game or when a ELO type system is inplace a loss of rating.

Yes you can argue, disconnects/having to leave for IRL, but if thats the case suck it up it's just 1 game you lose out to fix a serious issue.

LoL and many other games already do this and would be crazy if Hawken doesn't follow similar suit.

[Russhole]

Necro, on November 22 2012 - 02:43 PM, said:

They will get kicked in 3 minutes even if they afk but yeah that doesn't sound very good.

3 minutes is enough to lose a seige match in its current form...it would have to be improved.

Edited by Russhole, November 22 2012 - 02:49 PM.