41 replies to this topic

[Kuroken]

I'm proposing either an alternate secondary, re-work, or G2 weapon for the Tech by introducing an EOC variant for it.

This EOC (we'll nickname it the EOC Tech or 'EOCT') would function much the same as the current EOCR with a maximum 6 puck burst and can be considered to be "microbots" that repair the ally if you're concerned about the lore side of things.

• when fired upon allies, the pucks will heal the same amount EOCR pucks do damage (variable for balance of course)
  • alternatively, they could grant health regen for a short period of time with a maximum number of pucks being deployed at one time
• when fired upon enemies, the pucks will do damage similar to the EOCR pucks
• when fired onto surfaces, the pucks will heal allies/damage enemies on contact with a damage/heal reduction like the EOCR has for indirect hits
  • ?alternatively, a separate heal/damage mode for pucks just as helix has right now
  • pucks will disappear after a short time just as EOCR pucks do

I believe this will create a higher skill ceiling for technicians by removing the no-aim helix beam and make the tech more versatile.

• the tech now has to aim and hit moving friendly targets
• the tech can now heal from range, although the current range of helix torch appears to be the most effective range for an EOCT to heal from due to accuracy and projectile travel time
• the tech has more strategic importance by leading a team push by placing pucks on the ground, this will create favourable fighting areas for their team akin to mini-health orbs to walk over, and the same area denial that EOCR already grants
• in regards to complaints about green beaming, the tech's ability will still work by enhancing amount healed, but the aim required to hit all 6 pucks and the EOCT reload time will make it more balanced

I've tested this a small amount by making friendly fire heal at .8x and 1x effectiveness and using the current EOCR to do so.

Current complications:

• the tech would has no way to heal itself at the same time like helix does
  • this could be offset with a larger health pool to encourage the tech to play smarter, or to make the pucks heal the tech simultaneously
• using EOCR as a test, there is splash damage to the 'tech' when healing in close range
• using EOCR as a test, pucks placed on the surface do not explode/heal on contact
• having an EOCT as secondary on a tech may be awkward due to having to hold down the RMB
• having pucks placed on the ground and both damaging/healing gives benefit to the Tech's team no matter who steps on them, this encourages spam
  • I had considered if they were heal only, no matter if it were an ally or enemy, but this would be far too difficult to aim and leaves the tech even more defenseless and create griefing opportunities
  • to counter this, alternate firing modes for heal/damage could be employed similar to the current helix as suggested to me by Lioot

Edited by Kuroken, 27 May 2015 - 06:54 AM.

[reVelske]

C Class with mode-switchable Healing Hellfire. Turret mode is a heal dispenser that heals everyone standing around it but drains its own HP.

Edited by reVelske, 27 May 2015 - 12:19 AM.

[Lioot]

C Class with mode-switchable Healing Hellfire. Turret mode is a heal dispenser that heals everyone standing around it but drains its own HP.

Lock on heals is unrealistic

 

At the matter at hand, yes, the helix torch needs to be re-worked or replaced

[reVelske]

Define "realistic".

[Dawn_of_Ash]

 

• • to counter this, alternate firing modes for heal/damage could be employed similar to the current helix as suggested to me by Lioot

 

 

HEY! >:( You didn't mention my idea to make the damage mode able to debuff the opposing armor! I suggest having a debuff mode similar to the red beam of the current tech. This debuff would run alongside the current Redox to have optimal debuff effects, although the EOC Tech would debuff less than the Redox.

 

 

 

At the matter at hand, yes, the helix torch needs to be re-worked or replaced

 

Just because I wreck you with it. :P

[CrimsonKaim]

You can heal yourself with the EOCT just like you dmg yourself with the EOCR: close combat or step on your own mines. However, no instaheal (only heal over time thingy dingy).

In addition, the weapon would be too similar to the actual EOC which I dislike. We need more unique weapons, no f*cking G2s...

[Elite_is_salty]

G2 tech with EOCT (but no burst healing) would be something. I like the idea. More emphasis on offense.

[DerMax]

I like the idea. Would be interesting to test this.

[Nov8tr]

Hmmmmmm............

 

[Lioot]

Define "realistic".

Lock on heals? Its like fire and forget. Not much better than a helix repair torch, especially if it can be used for long range heals

[reVelske]

Who said it needs to be better? It just needs to be fun.

 

Besides, I'm just throwing stupid ideas around.

[Elite_is_salty]

Once me and my friends played a siege game in my friend eth0's private server, he had negative friendly fire on, and so we would shoot each other to heal each other, was messy cuz there was no limits on how much the health can reach but, if there was, would be a fine experience.

[Dawn_of_Ash]

I like the idea. Would be interesting to test this.

 

We actually have. Kuro had tested it before he had posted this topic and I was the Incin on his team. Overall, I thought that the healing was not much, but other people in the server disagreed. We had originally made the friendly fire damage at -1/-100%, but other players said that it was too much and we had to reduce it to -0.75/-75%. There was definitely a difference in the amount that was healed.

 

I still don't like the idea overall, but other people in this thread disagree and so I'm going not going to go against the majority when it comes to this idea.

[DerMax]

We actually have. Kuro had tested it before he had posted this topic and I was the Incin on his team. Overall, I thought that the healing was not much, but other people in the server disagreed. We had originally made the friendly fire damage at -1/-100%, but other players said that it was too much and we had to reduce it to -0.75/-75%. There was definitely a difference in the amount that was healed.

 

I still don't like the idea overall, but other people in this thread disagree and so I'm going not going to go against the majority when it comes to this idea.

I like the very idea of EOC-like healing. It doesn't have to be exactly like EOC — the projectile speed, ROF, DPS, falloff range, number of pucks in the weapon, their size, color etc. can all be varied.

 

Example: EOC-T

 

- Can charge up to 3 pucks (shoots 1 puck uncharged = 30 hp of healing per puck)

- Rate of fire uncharged equal to EOC-Pred's

- The pucks are bright green

- The puck size is slightly larger than that of EOC-Pred's pucks

- Projectile speed equal to EOC-Pred's

- Has a falloff range of 100 meters

 

See? Already a different weapon. But the very idea is neat.

[Onstrava]

I admit I cringed when I say the words "G2 and tech", in one sentence but I believe you maybe onto something here. Lets just hope the devs take some of the advice above hmmm, maybe even expand on it a little. You know something "new and fresh".

Edited by Onstrava, 27 May 2015 - 04:33 AM.

[dorobo]

It should heal enemies too  whoever first steps on or gets hit by them.

[Dawn_of_Ash]

I like the very idea of EOC-like healing. It doesn't have to be exactly like EOC — the projectile speed, ROF, DPS, falloff range, number of pucks in the weapon, their size, color etc. can all be varied.

 

Example: EOC-T

 

- Can charge up to 3 pucks (shoots 1 puck uncharged = 30 hp of healing per puck)

- Rate of fire uncharged equal to EOC-Pred's

- The pucks are bright green

- The puck size is slightly larger than that of EOC-Pred's pucks

- Projectile speed equal to EOC-Pred's

- Has a falloff range of 100 meters

 

See? Already a different weapon. But the very idea is neat.

 

So you would have the EOC Tech to be closer to the EOC-Pred rather than the EOC-Repeater? That's an interesting look on things. But how long would these mines be on the ground before they blow up automatically? Pred length or the EOC-Repeater length?

 

 

It should heal enemies too  whoever first steps on or gets hit by them.

 

I don't want to say too much on this because I feel like Kuro should be discussing this rather than me, but I the idea had definitely crossed his mind and he had some reasonable explanation for not wanting enemies to also be healed that I cannot remember...

 

I do agree with you on this though.

Edited by Dawn_of_Ash, 27 May 2015 - 04:42 AM.

[dorobo]

Just had this vision.. Team of these things make a path like a red carpet type of thing and one mighty orb lord would go on it to it's glory!

[DerMax]

So you would have the EOC Tech to be closer to the EOC-Pred rather than the EOC-Repeater? That's an interesting look on things. But how long would these mines be on the ground before they blow up automatically? Pred length or the EOC-Repeater length?

Two options here:

 

1. N seconds, with no limit to how many can be on the ground at a time (say, N=4)

 

2. Indefinitely, with the maximum of M pucks on the ground at a time (say, M=3)

 

But should these pucks/mines have AOE? And if yes, how large?

[Kuroken]

You can heal yourself with the EOCT just like you dmg yourself with the EOCR: close combat or step on your own mines. However, no instaheal (only heal over time thingy dingy).

In addition, the weapon would be too similar to the actual EOC which I dislike. We need more unique weapons, no f*cking G2s...

 

The burst heal is a bit much in our testing at 100% since it's one of the highest bursts in the game. So either the numbers would have to be tweaked or it would have to be heal over time.

 

Part of the reason I chose this was to make it easier for the devs to implement. But of course in the future new weapons are always welcome and are more easily tailored. 

[Kuroken]

I like the very idea of EOC-like healing. It doesn't have to be exactly like EOC — the projectile speed, ROF, DPS, falloff range, number of pucks in the weapon, their size, color etc. can all be varied.

 

Example: EOC-T

 

- Can charge up to 3 pucks (shoots 1 puck uncharged = 30 hp of healing per puck)

- Rate of fire uncharged equal to EOC-Pred's

- The pucks are bright green

- The puck size is slightly larger than that of EOC-Pred's pucks

- Projectile speed equal to EOC-Pred's

- Has a falloff range of 100 meters

 

See? Already a different weapon. But the very idea is neat.

 

The weapons operate almost the same as they are EOC weapons. The numbers and amounts for different damages and contact will all have to be tested but I chose EOCR as the basis thinking it would be the easiest to test and implement at this point in time.

 

 

Two options here:

 

1. N seconds, with no limit to how many can be on the ground at a time (say, N=4)

 

2. Indefinitely, with the maximum of M pucks on the ground at a time (say, M=3)

 

But should these pucks/mines have AOE? And if yes, how large?

 

I believe they should have the same limitation as the EOCR which seems to give a nice amount that you can realistically lay on the ground at any one time with the reload speed of the EOCR with the same AOE as well.

 

All tweakable of course =) but I think it's a good place to start

[Kuroken]

Just had this vision.. Team of these things make a path like a red carpet type of thing and one mighty orb lord would go on it to it's glory!

 

Will probably need to limit the amount that can be healed at any one time, but no different than a sitting on multiple orbs with multiple techs on them (to infinity and beyond!)

 

But it's good that EOCR already has surface placement damage reduced relative to straight contact

[Kuroken]

It should heal enemies too  whoever first steps on or gets hit by them.

 

I think this would be risky due to how difficult EOC weapons are to aim (projectile speed), if you were trying to help your friendly in a fight you would most likely end up hitting the enemy with pucks as well and it would make a poor tech useless and detrimental to the team, or it would open up the ability to grief your team by healing the other team.

[Sokram]

Instead of EOCT

 

Orb launcher.  Work similar to "SAARE" . It shoots heavy arcing orbs. Slow firerate. Medium heat generation.  2 modes. 

 

1) Healing orbs. These are normal orbs that drop from players.  Direct hit insta heals for full consumed orb. "planted orbs" slowly heal nearby mechs.

 

2) Damage orbs.  Red colored orbs. Instead of healing these "drain" hp from enemies. Direct hit instantly deals full orb damage. "Planted" orbs slowly damage nearby mechs (enemies)

 

Repair kits/extractors work with BOTH healing and damage orbs. 

[Panzermanathod]

Lock on heals is unrealistic

 

So is infinite ammo.

[Dawn_of_Ash]

Wait, I'm confused.

 

People are saying "no insta-heal". Why not? If I'm going to be firing EOC pucks into my teammates and expect a damage over time heal, how much does it heal, and by how fast? At the same rate as standing on an orb? Are we still going with the idea of charged up pucks?

 

I'm all for insta-healing, but just having a slower rate of fire, and travel time to counter-act it.

[6ixxer]

Instead of EOCT

 

Orb launcher.  Work similar to "SAARE" . It shoots heavy arcing orbs. Slow firerate. Medium heat generation.  2 modes. 

 

1) Healing orbs. These are normal orbs that drop from players.  Direct hit insta heals for full consumed orb. "planted orbs" slowly heal nearby mechs.

 

2) Damage orbs.  Red colored orbs. Instead of healing these "drain" hp from enemies. Direct hit instantly deals full orb damage. "Planted" orbs slowly damage nearby mechs (enemies)

 

Repair kits/extractors work with BOTH healing and damage orbs. 

 

Hmmm, interesting.

 

Removes helix sticky aim, promotes skillshots. Enemy team can use your heal orbs.

Retains the two modes, Tech can opt to go full offense.

Removes tech parasitic heal, choose to position your orb to heal only yourself or to share.

 

I like the direct hit for full heal/damage and the proximity heal/damage.

Tech with this should perhaps have better HP as it now would have to use its heal orbs on itself rather than getting parasitic heals.

 

I don't think there's room for two healing classes so it may have to be a well though out replacement for Helix rather than a G2.

Previously I pushed to increase helix damage and decrease its heal, to reduce the prevalence of C with pocket tech or two.

This is a concept I could see working (with the right balance) and convert some of the anti-tech players.

 

Cheers,

6ixxer

[Grollourdo]

Oh god no....THE TECH IS NOT OP OR DOES NOT NEED A REWORK... I'm gonna cry if this continues.... T.T

[talons1337]

Oh god no....THE TECH IS NOT OP OR DOES NOT NEED A REWORK... I'm gonna cry if this continues.... T.T

 

Everything is OP if you play hard enough!

[Grollourdo]

Lol good point XD but that's skill based XD

Edited by Grollourdo, 30 May 2015 - 11:49 PM.

[6ixxer]

I'm very much against giving the Tech a major rework or weapon change. I like the Tech and would like to see the PN balanced and have it be a bit more survivable, perhaps at the cost of lowering the team heals somewhat. (these should just be database tweaks? no code changes?)

 

That said, lots of players hate Techs and suggest very unrealistic changes, so when I saw a suggestion that could work, and stay in line with the game lore I'd happily give it some support.

 

Cheers,

6ixxer

[Kuroken]

I don't believe the current tech is OP but believe that a tweak like this could give it more versatility and be more fun to play

[Meraple]

Yup, let's create a weapon that shoots Orbs because Orblord's obviously not OP.

 

In all seriousness though I prefer the EOC-T idea Derpy had.

[Kuroken]

Yup, let's create a weapon that shoots Orbs because Orblord's obviously not OP.

 

In all seriousness though I prefer the EOC-T idea Derpy had.

 

I was hoping the orb weapon was sarcasm.

 

Herp derp

[6ixxer]

Yup, let's create a weapon that shoots Orbs because Orblord's obviously not OP.

 

In all seriousness though I prefer the EOC-T idea Derpy had.

 ...and an orb lord with a tech following them is different how?

 

If the proximity heal amount and duration is set right, then it should heal no different to having a pocket tech.

Direct hits can be balanced separately. Unlike the helix that can lock on and not generate heat unless healing, this would mean that if you throw out orbs like candy you overheat quickly.

 

Its not a bad idea, you're just jumping to the least balanced conclusion.

 

Cheers,

6ixxer

[LU0P10]

Lock on heals? Its like fire and forget. Not much better than a helix repair torch, especially if it can be used for long range heals

You mean aimbot mechanism? Do we like aimbotters and hackers.. that's the question.

 

Lol good point XD but that's skill based XD

LOL'd so hard. "skill" based... you talking about skill... 

 

I am truely sorry if you can't play anything else than Tech with your ping and/or computer but... oh well... nothing is going to be changed. So don't you worry. Let this game just die out. 

[talons1337]

You mean aimbot mechanism? Do we like aimbotters and hackers.. that's the question.

 

LOL'd so hard. "skill" based... you talking about skill... 

 

I am truely sorry if you can't play anything else than Tech with your ping and/or computer but... oh well... nothing is going to be changed. So don't you worry. Let this game just die out. 

 

You seem to be confused. Since when was the bruiser an aimbot? Last time I checked, everyone was complaining about the bruiser missing all its shot.

 

Anyway... What was wrong with the skill based statement?

 

>Everything is OP in the right hands

>Yes, but that's skill based

 

He wasn't even talking about the tech! Aiya look at dis vo duyen.

[LU0P10]

You seem to be confused. Since when was the bruiser an aimbot? Last time I checked, everyone was complaining about the bruiser missing all its shot.

 

Anyway... What was wrong with the skill based statement?

 

>Everything is OP in the right hands

>Yes, but that's skill based

 

He wasn't even talking about the tech! Aiya look at dis vo duyen.

Nope.

 

Wasn't talking to you, and this thread was about Techs... 

 

Move along...

[talons1337]

Nope.

 

Wasn't talking to you, and this thread was about Techs... 

 

Move along...

 

git gud at reading context

[Meraple]

 ...and an orb lord with a tech following them is different how?

In all seriousness though

It means what I wrote before that wasn't 100% serious.

 

 

 

 Its not a bad idea, you're just jumping to the least balanced conclusion.

1) Healing orbs. These are normal orbs that drop from players.  Direct hit insta heals for full consumed orb. "planted orbs" slowly heal nearby mechs.

No, I didn't jump to the least balanced conclusion.

He clearly said they're normal orbs that drop from players, and even insta-heal upon direct hit.

Thus, it IS a bad idea.

 

Tweaked numbers would maybe turn it into a good one, but as he wrote it right there, no.

Edited by (KDR) Meraple, 03 June 2015 - 09:04 AM.