24 replies to this topic

[Dawn_of_Ash]

This idea was at first inspired by my post in the latest update which was the adjustment of mech prices found here: https://community.pl...pricing-update/

 

It is no secret that Hawken is struggling to keep new players playing due to many different reasons which pop up every now and then in the forums. I want to focus on one of them which I feel may be a crucial one: Gameplay.

 

Before anyone says: "But Dawn, you cannot just completely change the gameplay of Hawken - that's what makes it Hawken", I will say: "I do not suggest to." Let me explain.

 

I suggest to take a slice out of Warframe's book (slice from a book...good one Dawn *facepalm*) and do something similarly to what the Warframe devs do - give the player a choice. For those who have not played Warframe, firstly you should try it out - it's a good game, and secondly when the game first starts up it takes you through a tutorial level to teach you the basics - similar to Hawken I know, but what I want to focus on is even before that. Before the player even enters the game they get to, wait for it, choose their first Warframe - which is basically the "classes" of the game, Warframe. (I can see this getting a bit confusing to figure out if I'm talking about the game or the class, so I am now going to underline the name of the game and not the class now). Warframe gives the player a choice out of 3 hand-picked Warframes from the devs to choose out of - basically your Mage, your...Mage and your...non...mage with a small description beside them like "this is your Warframe if you like blah, blah".

 

Anyways, I wanted to focus on this first choice. In Warframe the game very unforgiving if you dislike your choice - similar to Hawken in this way - because it will take a new player days to get another Warframe, yet this game is around the top of the Steam popular Free-to-Play games. I believe that it is because of this illusion of choice that the devs gives newer players that is the hook to continue playing.

 

To link this into my idea in Hawken, I want to suggest a similar illusion of choice. Allow the player to pick out of the Assault, and two other mechs that differ greatly in style and are new-player friendly. My suggestion would be an A-Class, the Assault, and a C-Class. Which A, and C-Class to choose should be left for the community to choose as they/we likely have a bit more experience.

 

This idea of course has several flaws in it, but I think that it may be worth a try.

 

 

Poll:

Assualt: 7

Reaper: 3

Brawler: 2

Vanguard: 5

Berzerker: 5

Sharpshooter: 1

G2 Raider: 1

Technician: 1

Grenadier: 1

 

Note: In this poll, I've included likes as votes - which is arguably accurate. Also, the numbers may not be 100% accurate with my incapability to not be able to count up numbers right. I have also input my personal opinion into this poll which is Assault, Reaper and Grenadier. 

Edited by Dawn_of_Ash, 06 June 2015 - 01:46 AM.

[EM1O]

Chocolate!

Reaper, Assault, Brawler

A, B, C

Prolly wouldn't take much structural diddling to do it, as this was essentially the first easy-buy garage config.

[Rainbow_Sheep]

Chocolate!
Reaper, Assault, Brawler
A, B, C
Prolly wouldn't take much structural diddling to do it, as this was essentially the first easy-buy garage config.

Maybe Zerker and possibly Vanguard instead, since they all have easy to use weapons and are quite forgiving.

Although, since they pretty much have the same weapons a different combination may be needed.

I wouldn't say Reaper is a good mech to give new players as most low tier players don't play it well.

However this could in turn be negated by having a better tutorial, possibly one for each of these starter mechs.

Edited by Rainbow Sheep, 04 June 2015 - 02:45 AM.

[System64]

At the start, you should be given these choices:

 

Berserker

 

Assault/CRT

 

Vanguard

 

All three of these mechs share similar play styles. They all use sustained damage primaries and burst damage secondaries. It just depends on what playstyle you have as to which one you should choose. The Berserker also seems much more like an Assault class mech than an Assassination class mech.

 

I think the Brawler should have a GL as a secondary and the Vanguard have a TOW as the secondary, so that the Vanguard fits more into the assault scheme.

[Rainbow_Sheep]

I think the Brawler should have a GL as a secondary and the Vanguard have a TOW as the secondary, so that the Vanguard fits more into the assault scheme.

How does swapping the secondaries suddenly change their roles? The Vanguard fits very well into the Assault role, and the Brawler into the defense role already. I don't understand why you think they would need to change.

[System64]

I'm not saying that the roles would be changed. The Vanguard fits fine into the assault role with a GL, but having a TOW instead would make the Vanguard more familiar with the other assault mechs. The Brawler is made specifically for CQC, and the GL has less range then the TOW. GL is also more of a defensive weapon whereas the TOW is more for an offensive role. Switching the secondaries would enhance the roles that the Brawler and Vanguard have.

Edited by ??ß?Ø؃??, 04 June 2015 - 03:07 AM.

[Rainbow_Sheep]

I'm not saying that the roles would be changed. The Vanguard fits fine into the assault role with a GL, but having a TOW instead would make the Vanguard more familiar with the other assault mechs. The Brawler is made specifically for CQC, and the GL has less range then the TOW. GL is also more of a defensive weapon whereas the TOW is more for an offensive role. Switching the secondaries would enhance the roles that the Brawler and Vanguard have.

Eh, I guess we'll agree to disagree. In my experience, the tow has greater CQC potential than the GL because of the projectile speed and trajectory.

However both the TOW and the GL can be used very effectively in both Mid range and CQC, so this is why I believe they do not need a weapon change.

[Dawn_of_Ash]

 

Reaper, Assault, Brawler

 

This actually came to my mind while I was suggesting the idea but I just felt that the Brawler played too similar to the Assault in my opinion so I didn't like the idea. My inital suggestion was to give the person a chance to choose out of three different ways to play the game rather than the point and shoot of the Assault. Which leads me to my second point:

 

 

 

 

At the start, you should be given these choices:

 

Berserker

 

Assault/CRT

 

Vanguard

 

Now I can see where you are coming from with this - give new players easy-to-use weapons and make them happy. I view it as a different angle and think rather than "make people happy", I think "make people bored", because that's what people are going to be if they just join a game which is identical to their COD, Battlefield and Tom Clancy Ghost Recon games. Right now, I just feel that new players are just not experiencing everything that is in Hawken and are judging it on the first few minutes they play in their Assault. Which is the reason I suggest three mechs of varying combat methods. Like the Grenaider, Infiltrator, SS, Reaper, Predator, Tech, Incinerator and basically any other mech which actually requires a bit more skill than your basic point and shoot.

[System64]

Or, you know what? allow people to choose any mech at the start of the game, and allow them to use any mech in the offline TDM practice mode.

[System64]

Oh, and predator shouldn't be a choice, that is easily the most complicated and most difficult mech to use. New players wouldn't mix very well with it.

[Panzermanathod]

I don't want a Vanguard with a TOW. Part of the reason I got a Vanguard is because it *didn't* have a TOW.

 

Also... So instead of having an inexperienced player start with a general purpose mech an inexperienced player will choose one of three mechs, all of which are either general purpose or one of them being general purpose.

 

Eh... kinda neutral towards it.

[Kuroken]

I think this is a great idea. I always choose an MMORPG based on what class I'd like to play

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

This is a great idea!  I wonder why I didn't think of it.

[StubbornPuppet]

That's a really long way of saying what you're saying, but I agree.

 

I even wrote, in the topic CapnJosh started about changing the starting mech for new players, that they should give players a choice of an Infiltrator, an Assault, or a Rocketeer - and explain to the player what each of those types are used for and their play-style.  As you said, it gives the player a "choice" and if there's one thing people like to do, it's make a choice.  It make them feel in control.

 

Well, that's not what happened... and I don't think the change that was made did much of anything to improve the experience of new players.

[GGGanjaMan]

This is actually a good idea. There is sometimes a stigma associated with any free starter char you get in a game, of it either being bad or outclassed by others later on. New players will get the free assault, and the majority of the time they'll just assume it's a crappy mech, since you start with it and it came free with no work needed. I see it all the time; even when they're told that it's the one of the strongest & most versatile mechs, they'll still doubt... still feel like they need to upgrade to what they equate as better/stronger mechs.

 

So instead, just let them pick their own starter. I'd say to even go further than limiting their choice to only 3 mechs, since there's still the possibility to assume that they're choosing from an inferior selection. Just let them choose one out of all of them, their pick of the litter basically. This should break the illusion that the "starter" will somehow be inferior, since the selection encompasses everything. Any fault they find, they'll then have to associate with themselves instead of seeing it as the game pigeonholing them into a crappy "starter." Hell you can even still throw in the free assault to them when they hit lvl 10 or something, just so they can appreciate its ease of use and power compared to whatever they end up picking.

[Nightfirebolt]

 

To link this into my idea in Hawken, I want to suggest a similar illusion of choice. Allow the player to pick out of the Assault, and two other mechs that differ greatly in style and are new-player friendly. My suggestion would be an A-Class, the Assault, and a C-Class. Which A, and C-Class to choose should be left for the community to choose as they/we likely have a bit more experience....

 

I'm pretty sure this has already been suggested, but it's all good stuff.

 

+1 to your thread, sir.

[(KDR) Seron16]

I think this is a great idea, but a LOT of thought needs to be out into what mechs in addition to the CRT should be choices. I am of the mind that everyone should get the CRT anyway and choose one other additional mech from the choices given to them.

 

Because while I love and always will love my Recruit, it has the most boring weapons compared to some of the awesome stuff in this game, so while good for newbies it doesn't give the best representation of the game. My two cents. 

[Sylhiri]

I am of the mind that everyone should get the CRT anyway and choose one other additional mech from the choices given to them.

 

Wonder how many people would pick Pred because it looks cool only to find they are horrible with it because of it's skill level required. Then potentially make another account to pick another mech, lol.

[CraftyDus]

Technician Sharpshooter G2 Raider and I'd consider it

[Dawn_of_Ash]

That's a really long way of saying what you're saying, but I agree.

 

 

Looking back now, I will agree. Not very appealing to the eye. ^ ^;

 

 

 

I even wrote, in the topic CapnJosh started about changing the starting mech for new players, that they should give players a choice of an Infiltrator, an Assault, or a Rocketeer - and explain to the player what each of those types are used for and their play-style.  As you said, it gives the player a "choice" and if there's one thing people like to do, it's make a choice.  It make them feel in control.

 

I am uncertain with having the choice of a Rocketeer as a starter mech. The Rocketeer is already infamous in low-MMR servers and I feel that if you give people the choice of the mech, that servers would just be filled with Hellfire lock-ons and Seekers. Both can be easily dodged in high MMR lobbies, but I feel that giving the player this choice would result in people thinking that the Rocketeer is the OP mech of the three/how many starters.

 

 

 

So instead, just let them pick their own starter. I'd say to even go further than limiting their choice to only 3 mechs, since there's still the possibility to assume that they're choosing from an inferior selection. Just let them choose one out of all of them, their pick of the litter basically. This should break the illusion that the "starter" will somehow be inferior, since the selection encompasses everything. Any fault they find, they'll then have to associate with themselves instead of seeing it as the game pigeonholing them into a crappy "starter." Hell you can even still throw in the free assault to them when they hit lvl 10 or something, just so they can appreciate its ease of use and power compared to whatever they end up picking.

 

I like this idea.

 

So do you suggest that the new player should get the choice of 5 mechs? Problem with giving the player too many choices is that they would feel uncertain which one to pick - remember that these people are supposed to be completely new to this game and not know anything about it. If you give them the choice of 6 or over different mechs, I feel that many people would feel uncertain on what to get - although that is not a complete bad thing. I think that Warframe chose the number 3 because it is a good number - gives the player a good choice and not making them feel too limited without having too much choice and pressuring the player to pick the right one. At most, I think that 5 different mechs would have to be the maximum before people actually get pressured to pick the right one.

 

 

 

I am of the mind that everyone should get the CRT anyway and choose one other additional mech from the choices given to them.

 

Because while I love and always will love my Recruit, it has the most boring weapons compared to some of the awesome stuff in this game, so while good for newbies it doesn't give the best representation of the game. My two cents. 

 

I would be with this idea, but I feel that it would take away from this idea of choice. Consider it like the end of Mass Effect 3: Spoiler if you do not want to know the ending of Mass Effect 3 (it's not that large, don't worry).

Spoiler

You get the choice to do three things to defeat the massive machines of the galaxy who kill all organic race every 10 000 years known as the Reapers. You could either (1) Destroy the Reapers (2) Synthesize with the Reapers (aka fuse the machines with the organic races) or (3) Control them. This game series is likely the best example of choice in a game that you can get as there are dozens of other choices the player has to make before that. This end-game choice determines a lot.

 

Although I doubt that this would be anywhere close to the idea of choice in the Mass Effect series, I feel that this first mech should be a significance - like the Fred for the older players. The fact that the prices for the other mechs are so extreme now further emphasizes this point - you would have to grind for a bit with this chosen mech before you can purchase the next one.

 

Now that I've thought of it more, I think that this idea may fit better with the new mech prices.

[EM1O]

Vanguard. hmm.

No TOW. Assaulting close to mid-range using the grenade as a primary attack weapon, and the Flak or Vulcan as a devastating followup is good enough for me. The best observation ever heard was (in Coop TDM) "the damn bot vanguards are using the grenade like a primary!"

With its "Fat Zerker" air dancing, quick response, and need to master the HUGE turreted forward armor while linked to the Achilles' Heel rear vulnerability--you know, the New Guy who always drives in turret the whole friggin match-- i can't count the times i've seen a Fred jump in the air and pop a turreted Van with the splash from a TOW to the ground or wall behind it, this is probably not a mech for newbies.

Edited by em1o, 05 June 2015 - 05:14 AM.

[Dawn_of_Ash]

I've added a poll in the OP to help count the votes. Additionally, I am also counting "likes" as votes - although I'm not sure how accurate that is. 

 

Also, sorry if I've miscounted - I'm finding it a bit tedious and I can never seem to concentrate on something for longer than a minute. XD

 

Edit: Oh my gosh, I forgot to save it. ;( The horror continues...

 

Edit 2: I've finally made it possible for the world to see after two failing tries - yes I did fail again. So the awesome thing was that I was third time lucky...

Edited by Dawn_of_Ash, 06 June 2015 - 01:48 AM.

[NRgyk64]

Assault, Reaper, and no idea.

For me both are the best mechs you can have at the start. Assault is soooo easy and funny to play, and Reaper is just a Uber farming tool. It's my opinion.

Edited by NRgyk64, 06 June 2015 - 04:10 AM.

[Rainbow_Sheep]

I've added a poll in the OP to help count the votes. Additionally, I am also counting "likes" as votes - although I'm not sure how accurate that is.

Using likes as votes will bias the data. People may like the post and vote.

Additionally there is no way to dislike the post, so any data based off the likes will be an unfair representation.

Edited by Rainbow Sheep, 06 June 2015 - 05:02 AM.

[Dawn_of_Ash]

Using likes as votes will bias the data. People may like the post and vote.

Additionally there is no way to dislike the post, so any data based off the likes will be an unfair representation.

 

There is a way to unlike a post you had once liked.

 

But yes, I do understand where you are coming from and to an extent I also agree with you. But I do not want this thread to be spammed with short messages saying three mechs like "Reaper, Brawler and Assault" and make this topic several pages long (being optimistic here) with just short messages. It also makes it easier for people to vote.

 

...or I could just post a poll.

 

...I can't believe that I did not think of that. I'm not even sure if polls are on this new site and how to do it though. :(

Edited by Dawn_of_Ash, 06 June 2015 - 05:10 AM.