64 replies to this topic

[Analysis]

Please bring some version of CTF to Hawken. Mech Assault was a good mech game that did CTF quite well.

 

I need more CTF in my life and some sort of Oddball(hold item for time). Please note Oddball is the Halo name for the game type. We already have a version of King of the Hill(Missile Assault), but I would really like to see additional classic game modes emerge in Hawken.

[OmegaNull]

This is needed!

[ZombieBiscuit]

I would love to see VIP the most probably.

[dorobo]

moba mode pls..

[ZombieBiscuit]

Infantry as minions/creeps that die when you walk over them. Splat

[crockrocket]

Capture the flag would be fantastic, a whole new gamemode to strategize for! 

[ZombieBiscuit]

Flag must be at home to score though.

[GMKGoat]

It'd be a good way to inject some of the lore of the setting into the gameplay too.

 

Capture the flag would be fantastic, a whole new gamemode to strategize for! 

 

A whole new map type to strategize for too. CTF maps are traditionally long and thin as opposed to Hawken's wide and squareish maps.

[Mikino917]

If you think about it, siege is somr kind of much complicated ctf. But i think normal and classic ctf vould be interesting.

[Crminimal]

Also Bombing Run could work wonders in Hawken.

 

"Ball reset"

[Silverfire]

Scouts and SS everywhere? Needs to be a new, specialized map for CTF to work, I feel.

[Miscellaneous]

Yeah, CTF would be awesome!

 

We'd need some new maps for it though...

 

;)

[Grollourdo]

What's CTF?

Edit: oh never mind

Edited by Grollourdo, 21 March 2015 - 02:26 AM.

[Plantblock]

the flag should have a debuff making you slower couse as the game is now you could just use raider or scout to rush in and grab the flag I supose

[Dmax]

It will be difficult to balance this mode. Faster and slower mechs have 13,5 m/s speed difference, and speed means a lot in this mode. And of course, our maps are not intended for CTF, we need new maps, or CTF versions of old(that variant will be much better). But i want to see this, and Bombing Run modes in Hawken. 

[ZombieBiscuit]

the flag should have a debuff making you slower couse as the game is now you could just use raider or scout to rush in and grab the flag I supose

 

 

It will be difficult to balance this mode. Faster and slower mechs have 13,5 m/s speed difference, and speed means a lot in this mode. And of course, our maps are not intended for CTF, we need new maps, or CTF versions of old(that variant will be much better). But i want to see this, and Bombing Run modes in Hawken. 

 

 

Just make it so that you cannot boost with the flag and the flag must be at home to score. Done.

 

This stops light mechs from just spamming caps because there speed would be nerf plus they cannot just ignore everything else and go for runs because its easy to counter just by tugging the flag off stand.

[Houruck]

As others have already pointed it out a classic CTF game would be hard to balance because of the vast difference between mech speeds.

[opicr0n]

CTF would be a great addition indeed.

[Dmax]

Just make it so that you cannot boost with the flag and the flag must be at home to score. Done.

 

This stops light mechs from just spamming caps because there speed would be nerf plus they cannot just ignore everything else and go for runs because its easy to counter just by tugging the flag off stand.

Not bad idea, but CTF isn't interesting without dynamic gameplay. And if you walking with 15ms, you need a powerful support from your teammates. It looks like VIP mode, not CTF.

[GMKGoat]

Just make it so that you cannot boost with the flag and the flag must be at home to score. Done.

 

This stops light mechs from just spamming caps because there speed would be nerf plus they cannot just ignore everything else and go for runs because its easy to counter just by tugging the flag off stand.

You'd be better off restricting boosting over cutting it off completely. Something like carrying the flag increases all fuel consumption by some rate. Lighter mechs have a greater penalty due to not being designed to carry the extra weight. Oh no, I'm debating design of a game mode that doesn't exist. That's my cue to exit.

[ZombieBiscuit]

You'd be better off restricting boosting over cutting it off completely. Something like carrying the flag increases all fuel consumption by some rate. Lighter mechs have a greater penalty due to not being designed to carry the extra weight. Oh no, I'm debating design of a game mode that doesn't exist. That's my cue to exit.

That would be way better actually. Maybe cut dodges but allow the double fuel consumption on just boosting.

[Z1Alpha]

Not bad idea, but CTF isn't interesting without dynamic gameplay. And if you walking with 15ms, you need a powerful support from your teammates. It looks like VIP mode, not CTF.

 

You remember VIP mode in Halo 3? Good times. In the standard VIP game type each team was assigned a VIP and players would score points by killing the opposing team's VIP. That would be a fun and teamwork oriented game mode. Probably have to do something about technicians though, maybe even remove them. Back to the subject at hand, I completely agree with said quote and I think CTF would be a wonderful mode for HAWKEN.

[Fumakilla69]

moba mode pls..

Ou, yeah! This game always felt like a semi moba FPS, add neutrals and let the war begin!:)

[Houruck]

You already have a co-op mode to fight AI, and there is another mech game with MOBA elements out there. Please do not defile an arena shooter with that.

[Zdragow]

capnjosh plz

I have a MIGHTY NEED for CTF.

[The_Tennant]

It's probably gonna be a long while before the devs even think of adding a new mode much less news maps and mechs but a CTF/VIP style sounds like the perfect new addition to the game. Though I agree with the likely problems and balancing disadvantages of CTF. It could work but leaning more towards VIP or Escort mode would be a better idea.

[Odra]

I would like a CTF mode, but without an actual fabric flag but rather something more along the tech theme, like a Data Node or a Mainframe.

 

Maybe a hologram beacon that hovers above the Mech could be used whenever the objective is picked up.

[Vdragon]

ctf pls

[Guns_N_Rozer]

CTF

[TheFrostnessMonster]

The best way to balance the many various mech speeds would be to set ONE STANDARD SPEED (preferably very slow) while any mech is carrying the flag, regardless if it is a Scout or a Brawler.  You could also have no boosting or dodging is capable, which would force the players to act as a team to protect their flag carrier from being vaporized.  But I am willing to wait for a while for a new game mode, if the new devs focus on current bugs and balancing issues first.

[dorobo]

You already have a co-op mode to fight AI, and there is another mech game with MOBA elements out there. Please do not defile an arena shooter with that.

co-op is boring as fuzzy bunny it's a waste of time. But 6v6 pvp with three routes  and turrets on the way and creeps from co-op might work. Btw I heard previous devs had plans for something mobalike. Lots of content for that are in place. Btw I dont mind ctf too. Don't see how that would defile arena shooter :)

[Nachoeslach]

The flag should be a kind design that transforms the mech, and to capture it should wait a few seconds

[Analysis]

As others have already pointed it out a classic CTF game would be hard to balance because of the vast difference between mech speeds.

 

It certainly is true some mech compositions would be more effective, but all mechs will be viable in the right hands.

 

I'm still looking at Mech Assault and how they did CTF. Mech Assault was an Xbox game that was in the Mech Warrior universe that was played in the 3rd person. It is true that flag runners were typically light mechs, but mediums were also used on occasion. What made a good CTF team was communication. I remember heavy mechs were sometimes used to guard the flag(Atlas, Promethus, Timberwolf, or Madcat).

 

In Hawken I can see a Heavy mech at the base with a sniper in the middle being great for defense. Also with the inclusion of the tech I could even see a heavy being a flag runner if the team is coordinated. I do feel the more effective Hawken teams would be composed of light and medium mechs though, but you shouldn't underestimate a team with good communication and a unique strategy.

[Zilph]

the flag should have a debuff making you slower couse as the game is now you could just use raider or scout to rush in and grab the flag I supose

 

This.

 

In a game where speed is variable because of your mech, we need the carrier to slow down to make it fair. Even in the later Halo titles, a game where everyone moves the same speed, they still have their flag carriers move slower. It forces the team to work on protecting and escorting their carrier, not just distracting the enemy long enough for one guy to grab it and leg it back home. 

 

With how Hawken works, even if we reduced a carrying scout's speed to the point where it's still faster than a heavy, that's fair. Because then it's the opposing team's fault for going all heavies. If you want to win, you need diversity, you need other light mechs to give chase. However, if a heavy grabs the flag, it shouldn't have its speed reduced. I think, globally between all mechs, it should be a flat speed that it gets reduced to. Heavies are already walking targets. Another option, either in conjunction with or instead of, would be to disable boosting on the carrier. I'd consider disabling dashing as well, but not to kill off maneuverability, just to stop people from side dashing all the way home. This needs discussion.

 

Make a new map, slow down the carrier, and you've already got a version of CTF. Not a working version, but a version WORTH TESTING with the community. I feel that the previous devs didn't put as many experimental things out to us because they say it as risky, when really, it's still a beta. You've got to see what people enjoy, what they don't, have them test it and trial it, THEN revise and finalize. Please Realoaded, do NOT be afraid to put things out to us only to have it change... We want to have new things, and we want them to be as good as they can be, we expect change because it's a beta. Try new things just for the sake of trying. It could go through five different revisions or changes over the course of six months, nay, a year... but at the end of the tunnel you'll have a working version of CTF.

 

...Much better than just having one flat release of something you think is perfect. I still think Siege needs revising, honestly. And revising things isn't bad.

[AxionOperandi]

As far as the mechanics go just make the "flag" heavy, whatever form the flag would be (preferably something that looks heavy).  That way there would be a weight penalty that would balance the game and actually make sense physics wise.  A class mechs would feel it the most and C class could hardly be affected.

 

But yeah, we'd probably need different or least reworked maps for it work the best.

[Sylhiri]

If the flag reduced speed there is no reason to pick an A class over a B or C class as the A classes speed is there to increase it's survivability. Even if you remove tech healing (which benefits B and C classes more then A already) you still have a health advantage.

 

Someone on the old forums had suggested running the flag into the enemy team's area instead of grabbing it and running back which I think has more potential.

[Zilph]

If the flag reduced speed there is no reason to pick an A class over a B or C class as the A classes speed is there to increase it's survivability. Even if you remove tech healing (which benefits B and C classes more then A already) you still have a health advantage.

 

Someone on the old forums had suggested running the flag into the enemy team's area instead of grabbing it and running back which I think has more potential.

 

This. Good to point out flaws with ideas. 

 

We may need something other than a speed reduction, because then A class mechs would only be useful to chase flag carriers down, not carry the flags.

 

And your other suggestion probably works much better, but it's a lot easier to just get in than it is to get in and out, meaning it would probably be very hard to defend against A classes easily making their way in.

 

Either with flag slowing, or reverse flag (deliver something instead of steal something), one thing is a given for both ideas. CTF will still need a map to work with it. It's just too risky with the current maps, too large. But who knows, maybe everyone can work something out.

 

Edit: Sorry, just wanted to discuss more on A class effectiveness on these ideas. They'd make amazing chasers with flag slowing, but bad carriers as speed is their survivability. What if when carrying they maintained their walking speed, dodging included, but boost was either disabled or gimped (think Raider G2 boost speed). Boosting is rarely used during a duel unless you're keeping the pressure on (right?) but you shouldn't be doing that as a carrier. Maybe you'll fight, but your end goal is to get away, and you can still effectively fight/survive with your normal walking speed and dodge speed, right?

 

Does this sound viable Sylhiri? Or still a bad idea?

Edited by Zilph, 21 March 2015 - 08:25 PM.

[Draigun]

CTF doesn't even make sense for this game. The maps will never play nice with CTF, since each layout is different and offers point advantages over others. You can reduce the speed of mechs carrying the flag, and limit the ceiling at which you stop floating in air, but it would require some map modifications to properly handle CTF mode.

 

That being said, a form of CTF inspired type of game would fit Hawken better, with varying rulesets and objectives. If that's what you guys are referring to, and not the classic CTF game, then I apologize.

 

Still, Hawken certainly needs new meta and content to thrive in the long run. Eventually, we'll get there, no doubt. Siege has its mode that focuses on controlling something, MA is basically Siege except a wide use of movement and control, Bots TDM focuses on teamwork without the added factors of enemy opposition, and co-op mod is in itself amazing, but just not well polished yet. That definitely leaves room for at least another form of game mode, in my opinion.

[MechTech0520]

This. Good to point out flaws with ideas. 

 

We may need something other than a speed reduction, because then A class mechs would only be useful to chase flag carriers down, not carry the flags.

 

And your other suggestion probably works much better, but it's a lot easier to just get in than it is to get in and out, meaning it would probably be very hard to defend against A classes easily making their way in.

 

Either with flag slowing, or reverse flag (deliver something instead of steal something), one thing is a given for both ideas. CTF will still need a map to work with it. It's just too risky with the current maps, too large. But who knows, maybe everyone can work something out.

 

Edit: Sorry, just wanted to discuss more on A class effectiveness on these ideas. They'd make amazing chasers with flag slowing, but bad carriers as speed is their survivability. What if when carrying they maintained their walking speed, dodging included, but boost was either disabled or gimped (think Raider G2 boost speed). Boosting is rarely used during a duel unless you're keeping the pressure on (right?) but you shouldn't be doing that as a carrier. Maybe you'll fight, but your end goal is to get away, and you can still effectively fight/survive with your normal walking speed and dodge speed, right?

 

Does this sound viable Sylhiri? Or still a bad idea?

Well They could reduce Speed to a certain point so that no matter what mech you have the speed will always be the same when you have the flag

Edited by MechTech0520, 21 March 2015 - 10:17 PM.

[Plantblock]

Well They could reduce Speed to a certain point so that no matter what mech you have the speed will always be the same when you have the flag

 

I think that would make a-classes useless as flagrunners couse then a 800hp brawler would be as manuverbel as a 320hp scout