24 replies to this topic

[DM30]

So, I'm sure a lot of people have seen the stickied thread in General about the Docgotgame SteelSeries stream. This was a topic of discussion on Teamspeak last night, and some interesting points were brought up. While it's cool that big channels with lots of followers are streaming the game and getting promoted by Reloaded, are they really showcasing Hawken at its best?

 

The problem that was brought up was that while having big streamers showing off the game is great, what people are seeing is a clumsy, slower, dare I say duller version of Hawken played by someone who probably hasn't had time to learn the game's ins and outs. These viewers AREN'T seeing the game's full potential, the really exciting games played by people who know how the maps work, how to outplay and outmaneuver their opponents and use their mechs to their full potential.

 

A lot of people that really should be stickied and plugged to show off the game are currently only pulling in a handful of viewers. Most streams I see running on the Hawken stream page only have one or two people, if any, watching. A little while back I was in TS with a couple of the game's strong players and streamers who were talking about a stream they had just done, and they were excited to have broken ten viewers. Ten.

 

How many of those were people who aren't friends of the streamer and already know the game? How many potential new players are being reached by these streamers? Not many, I'd wager.

 

Here's the suggestion:

What if, in addition to seeking out large, established channels to stream Hawken, Reloaded also worked on convincing these channels to host streams from the game's skilled veteran players as well? Instead of only showing masses of viewers the new players trying to figure out how to dodge and use their radar, they also got to see what Hawken looks like AFTER the learning curve? How much more excited would people be to sign up and play THAT game?

 

In short: Make threads promoting Hawken's veteran streamers as well as the new ones. Highlight upcoming competitive matches. Put links in the game's main menu for these streams. Get big streamers to feature broadcasts from established community members. Show everyone what Hawken can be, not just what it looks like from the perspective of people just getting started.

[brackets]

Tiggs often does tweet out both veteran players and new players trying out the game who are streaming on Twitch. But because they don't already have a large audience of their own, even with the exposure Reloaded can give them they still don't get many more viewers.

[Amidatelion]

I'm somewhere in the middle here, in all respects - skill, streaming, popularity.

 

Ok, that's a lie. I don't stream. I am streaming this week because I have access to a beastly PC with the processing power necessary to push out 720p60 Hawken, which I think is the bare minimum this game needs to be showcased at. Last time I streamed was in, like, December, when I had pretensions of breaking 2300.

 

Anyways, my point is that when I streamed tonight I had people show up and watch. And they were interested! They thought I was high-tier. This was a new thing for me. I didn't really know how to react and clumsily answered questions while trying not to lose my fuzzy bunny vs TANG. 

 

If I can pull some noobs in by streaming half-decent gameplay at good quality because big-name streamers are opening the doors, I think this is something we should capitalize on. I know not everyone can stream (hell I am one of those people 99% of the time) but so long as we're available I think we can do some good following up on the popular streams. Like, watch the Playhawken twitter for announcements of bigger streamers and then the next day run a comp scrim. Or if its on a weekend, immediately after the stream ends, launch some high level games. Even better get talking with the streamers and ask them if they'd be willing to give a shout out to the next stream - if someone's done streaming for the day, we're not impacting their viewership or monies by showcasing after them.

 

Something to think about.

[XPloyt]

I believe there is usually a disparity between the vets and the newbies/casuals when it comes to streaming. Vets typically play better but tend to not showcase strategic variety and/or explain much if anything at all, and newbies/casuals are more relatable with their engaging personalities, and creates a more friendly environment.  

 

When I began, I started watching Xacius; he is a decent combination of the good qualities to be had for livestreaming. Part of the fun was not being able to easily comprehend what he was doing because I felt there was so much going on at the time, so I felt like there was plenty to learn from him, plus the fact he's really good, in a jack-of-all-trades type of way. He also answered many questions from the viewers and tends to make statements on why he decides to change mechs and weapons during a game.

Edited by XPloyt, 23 June 2015 - 08:25 PM.

[Merl61]

I submitted a support ticket about this. 

 

Hey Tiggs. My latest endeavor involves the twitch community. I had a conversation with my clanmates and we all agreed that Hawken looks far more exciting when you are watching someone who is really good. I respect the streamers that you have brought to the game, and I appreciate the effort, but they are not the caliber of players that can really showcase all that Hawken has to offer. The dedicated professional Hawken streamers need some love. People want to play the game more if they are learning from the best and have someone to guide them. I'd love to get karkat or Akbudder or myself featured on the front page of Hawken and hosted on the playhawken twitch. If something like this interests you I'd like to set up a time to meet and discuss details.

Thanks for everything.

Merl

 

Hello Merl,

We're working on our streamers website and once we're further along we'll be highlighting different streamers (new, old and vet). Once we're at the point to highlight different people, we'll reach out to our community.

Thanks for your interest,

Tiggs

[Merl61]

I believe there is usually a disparity between the vets and the newbies/casuals when it comes to streaming. Vets typically play better but tend to not showcase strategic variety and/or explain much if anything at all, and newbies/casuals are more relatable with their engaging personalities, and creates a more friendly environment.  

 

When I began, I started watching Xacius; he is a decent combination of the good qualities to be had for livestreaming. Part of the fun was not being able to easily comprehend what he was doing because I felt there was so much going on at the time, so I felt like there was plenty to learn from him, plus the fact he's really good, in a jack-of-all-trades type of way. He also answered many questions from the viewers and tends to make statements on why he decides to change mechs and weapons during a game.

*shameless plug* I answer any and all questions on my stream, as well as explain my maneuvers. It's very important for keeping your audience engaged. 

[Silverfire]

I'll be streaming once I have the time, in a few months, I have the internet, I think I have the computing power, I think I have the personality, and I think I'm decent enough to give a good showing of Hawken and answer questions. Will my parents let me is a different story.

Thing is with the dedicated streamers is that they're entertaining to watch, not necessarily the game play but the person themselves. I've been watching docgotgame for a little while to give him tips and tricks in the Twitch chat, he's not very good at all and doesn't really absorb many of the tips I give him, but he's just a goofy fun guy to watch. He wears chicken hats, he's loud, brash, and a little wild. He's not afraid to do so on camera. And he can laugh at his mistakes, which are often.

Higher tier players I've been watching, pretty boring in comparison. From what I've seen, the majority are just people playing the game with an occasional nice song in the background. Maybe their cat is on cam, but that's it. Little talking, all focus on the game. Doing well. If a question comes up in chat, and in watching, I'm often times the person answering. It just doesn't feel as engaging as it could be. Xacius was pretty good when he streamed Hawken regularly, Merl is trying but there just needs to be more. I just don't see streams worth promoting that often because people want a show and some good commentary and veteran streams don't have that more often than not.

It's all about promotion, so Amid has a few nice points. Gotta create the connections with big name streamers first though, but he's made some good suggestions, although coordinating events with announcements are difficult at best.

[DM30]

I believe there is usually a disparity between the vets and the newbies/casuals when it comes to streaming. Vets typically play better but tend to not showcase strategic variety and/or explain much if anything at all, and newbies/casuals are more relatable with their engaging personalities, and creates a more friendly environment.  

 

When I began, I started watching Xacius; he is a decent combination of the good qualities to be had for livestreaming. Part of the fun was not being able to easily comprehend what he was doing because I felt there was so much going on at the time, so I felt like there was plenty to learn from him, plus the fact he's really good, in a jack-of-all-trades type of way. He also answered many questions from the viewers and tends to make statements on why he decides to change mechs and weapons during a game.

 

That's a good point. That said, I do know some higher tier players/streamers who are also very engaging with their viewers. x9x8x7x and devotion (karkat mentioned in Merl's post) are almost always talking with their viewers whenever I watch their streams just to name a couple.

 

 

Tiggs often does tweet out both veteran players and new players trying out the game who are streaming on Twitch. But because they don't already have a large audience of their own, even with the exposure Reloaded can give them they still don't get many more viewers.

 

Didn't know that, but cool. At the very least that's probably bringing in some interest from other games she's involved with. Otherwise a good chunk of people following this news probably already know about Hawken, though, and I think there's more that can be done to reach people that don't. Amid's suggestion is a great place to start, I think.

[Sigil_]

I'm not sure if its possible to force 'mayhem mode' on maps that aren't Bazaar or Frontline through private server commands, but if it can be done then additional players could join a match, login to the spectator mode and stream that with commentary. Maybe dress it up with some graphics and make a whole production out of it, there are plenty of people here with the talent.

 

Tell me people wouldn't watch a TPG match that's commentated well and has good production value.

Edited by -vR.Sigil_, 23 June 2015 - 10:17 PM.

[DerMax]

Don't. Advertise. A game. That's. Half. Done.

[Dawn_of_Ash]

Don't. Advertise. A game. That's. Half. Done.

 

You do not know how much I agree with this statement.

[Aregon]

Don't. Advertise. A game. That's. Half. Done.

While the game need more people, delivering updates and actually trying to finish up the game which has been in beta for soon 3 years should be the absolute top priority. Not all these changes, just decide what you want the game to be and stick with it.

[CrimsonKaim]

To be honest, I didn't watch this stream.

 

Why? because this guy posted was a 'noname'. He/She isn't famous among the Hawken community. 

 

Guess where I was yesterday. At Merl's stream. Why? Because he is well known. 

 

 

 

But, Merl for example has an audience of experienced players who know eachother for decades. Big streamers attract a different kind of audience and I think it is better to show the public majority and the 'big audience' what they WILL experience when they play Hawken instead of showing the best sides of Hawken they will probably never experience in a short period of time.

 

This is like advertising:

 

Spoiler

 

 

So showing the Hawken new players will experience is better than showing something they will not experience. There is nothing worse than getting told "This and that is totally awesome!" and when you buy it, you are so damn disappointed so you will never ever touch it again. 

 

Always tell the truth. :]

Edited by FakeName, 24 June 2015 - 03:47 AM.

[Silverfire]

You can't say people have known Merl for decades because he ain't even TWO decades old.

Edited by Silverfire, 24 June 2015 - 05:31 AM.

[Amidatelion]

Don't. Advertise. A game. That's. Half. Done.

We. Need. Population.

[Hyginos]

Don't. Advertise. A game. That's. Half. Done.

 

Why not? We're talking about publicity that comes at almost zero cost to the company.

[DerMax]

We. Need. Population.

What for?
 

Why not? We're talking about publicity that comes at almost zero cost to the company.

Because these people that you want to draw in will play the game for a bit, find that it's imbalanced, has insane grind and lacks basic functionality taken for granted in FPS games in 2015, and move on never to come back, telling their friends that Hawken is not worth checking out. I think the game's player retention is abysmal, in part, because of this. Look at the charts � we've already returned to the pre-March digits.

 

I think Hawken does not need publicity at this point in time. It's not ready for it. What the game needs is development and kissing good bye to its beta stage.

 

After it becomes a finished product, you can advertise it to your heart's content.

Edited by DerMax, 24 June 2015 - 07:23 AM.

[Amidatelion]

What for?

Money and players in servers that will deliver a more balanced gameplay experience, i.e. getting more people to 2k+ to stop 2k+ players from needing to get into lower skill games.

[Hek_naw]

For the first time I opened Merl's stream the other day, and while he was engaging with all the viewer's questions and following the chat, and it was fun seeing him in action, I got to see the struggle.

 

Oh the struggle.

 

The patience these high tier players must harness to wait until the matchmaker allows them to join a game. Out of 10 minutes of streaming, about 5 were spent waiting for a game to start. I hope I don't get past 1900 MMR anytime soon.

 

Anyway that's a huge downside for anyone currently watching Hawken pros with non-smurf accounts. That's actually anti-publicity if you ask me.

Edited by Hek_naw, 24 June 2015 - 08:04 AM.

[PoopSlinger]

What for?
 

Because these people that you want to draw in will play the game for a bit, find that it's imbalanced, has insane grind and lacks basic functionality taken for granted in FPS games in 2015, and move on never to come back, telling their friends that Hawken is not worth checking out. I think the game's player retention is abysmal, in part, because of this. Look at the charts � we've already returned to the pre-March digits.

 

I think Hawken does not need publicity at this point in time. It's not ready for it. What the game needs is development and kissing good bye to its beta stage.

 

After it becomes a finished product, you can advertise it to your heart's content.

 Dude cmon.  Its been like this for years, its finished for the most part.  I don't know what you expect for a "finished product".  The balance between mechs and weapons isn't bad at all.  Our only balance issue is due to player skill and matchmaker, which would be greatly alleviated with more peeps.  What other basic functionality do you want apart from in-game coms?

[DerMax]

The balance between mechs and weapons isn't bad at all.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

wat

[OdinTheWise]

i think we should train them up in the ways of the force 

[LU0P10]

Can I add that people will discover a quality product, even without advertising... and then stay as a customer.

 

I am fairly confident to also say that product isn't even remotely good enough if customer base is merely hundreds.

 

I cannot understand the logic some (the diehards) have been saying a long time:  "do not change anything. It's not needed"  (right/wrong?)

 

 

I agree with DerMax. 

[Draigun]

Reloaded aimed at the proper target, but missed their shot; or alternatively, fired at the wrong time.

 

I'm with those that would rather see no promotion of streams, or a modification to the way it is approached; a way to involve the insightful and knowledgeable community into this project. Doing that will satisfy the audience, Reloaded, and the community itself. Although I presume it will be difficult to establish a compromise and/or an agreement. As it stands, the community is detached from those promoting Hawken via Twitch. Things change, but this in itself will be a hindrance, no doubt.

Edited by Draigun, 24 June 2015 - 09:49 PM.

[Maxunarul]

I agree it lacks more advertising, here developers should do more to publicize the short game, with gameplays of the most spectacular shots. The new do not know the mechanics of the game if they show full games not know how difficult is that a Sharpshooter is therefore necessary to put an unnecessary full gameplays or complete medium.

 

Should launch trailer as it does Dota, Wow, Warface, with short mechs stalking, big explosions, comments excitement of the players when you win a very difficult game with the last kill, etc etc etc.

 

Steam is a platform should promote more the game, there developers should do something, not that type of contract has Hawken with Steam, I install Dota 2 Warface because I recommended it and I saw Steam publicity when things looked online, games are not like the end but at least I did try advertising.

 

There is a percentage that is not going to like the game, that is the law of life, a Mech Sniper can not bend like a human for example, or can not make quick jumps between obstacles, jump and even fewer can do a pirouette on the floor and then hide behind a wall. Those things do not like the fans of games like Callof Dutty eg bad we do in trying to match the dynamic or willing to engage in that kind of players. It is more feasible for a player Hawken is engache Call of Dutty that biceversa, the dynamics of Call of Dutty is faster and there may be players who want to try something more "fast" a mech.

 

What we do as a community (as owners and developers of the game) is to promote more advertising to attract those who like games combat machines, such there are many who play strategy games with tanks. by its dynamics could like it too Hawken. They are no longer commanding tanks but a Mech with weapons and internal, and the dynamics of Hawken is much faster than the dynamics of a set of tanks. I come from years of playing the series of Total War and what I liked about Hawken is to walk faster to action while in Total War you have to build your army and take it to the enemy

 

The game needs many improvements but as the community is small and monetary income is equally little bit can make the developers to improve the game. But recognize their work, in these last few weeks, have been working on improving the servers and balances of the rooms, and so we have been reporting and it seems to them that the complaints are unfounded,

 

At least I think that ai like this Hawken (with its flaws) has the potential to engage more players, you need more tutorials for new quickly learn the basics of the dynamics of Mechs, a guide to guide them in the difficulties They are going to find every time you go up in level (so no longer would fall to them like a bucket of cold water the fact of facing a good player in command of a Scout) and a complete guide on video explaining the use and uses of the internal and objects.

 

At least I'm already collecting videos of my games to explain that in 3 videos but in Spanish

 

In short, there is much work to be done to increase its population Hawken players.

Edited by Maxunarul, 24 June 2015 - 11:43 PM.