40 replies to this topic

[JeffMagnum]

nvm

Edited by Brumbpo Tungus, 30 December 2015 - 07:24 PM.

[Pleasure_Mortar]

I'm considering doing this as a full-time job if I get enough donations--the devs are being slow but I have plenty of spare time and no obligations and can take suggestions from community members as well as compensate people like Badtings and nepacaka for their contributions here. Additionally, I can distribute advertisements IRL to build hype for Hawken since the devs are seemingly not interested in increasing the playerbase at the moment as well as give monetary prizes for TPG seasons. Here's my Patreon

…and that's a good thing, because nothing worse than generating hype for something that's not a finished product yet and has flaws like Hawken does at this time but is already available to the consumer.

Just look at the complains from new players. A-classes OP, game unbalanced, P2W etc. Do you want a bunch a of potential new players make up their mind before issues have been adressed and the game is officially released? There are reasons why ppl leave after 3 days and never come back. 

Getting people to come back once they disliked the game is much harder than to convince them with a good first experience.

Edited by ..., 25 December 2015 - 01:48 AM.

[JeffMagnum]

I never said I'd do that immediately; I intend on waiting until the game gets balance and content patches to advertise while currently rewarding people who contribute on the forums and doing general manager things. I mean it's probably stepping on Tiggs' toes to some extent but there is essentially no public interaction with the community on a daily or even weekly basis and events are lacking and few and far between. I would be directly accountable to people and they could choose whether or not to contribute further based on my performance. Paying other content creators through a crowdfunded pool would be nice as well--I intend on spending most of the money on people besides me and on game-related things. 

Edited by Brumbpo Tungus, 24 December 2015 - 06:34 AM.

[Trigary]

And why do you think your advertising help will be needed? Why do you think Reloaded won't advertise after Hawken gets out of beta?

 

I don't think content creators should be paid by you. If they have pages where people can give them money, people will give them, if they want, if they don't have, I think they believe they won't get money or they don't want/need money for that (because they don't do it for money).

 

I think if the devs need data, they will create polls, those will be a lot more popular, too.

 

I'm sorry, but I don't really like your YT tutorials. I don't really understand why people would use most of those movement tricks, you should show them in action (I am sceptical a bit...).

 

This game isn't very popular, IRL events can't be done atm (at least I believe that), and I don't think they will ever be popular. Marking a continent would be great btw.

 

Noone will pay you to create hawken gameplay until you are a very good streamer/youtuber, I don't think you should advertise that.

 

Fill your patreon page with pictures, that will be a great start I think.

[asipo]

good idea because SG server is dying

[JeffMagnum]

And why do you think your advertising help will be needed? Why do you think Reloaded won't advertise after Hawken gets out of beta?

 

I don't think content creators should be paid by you. If they have pages where people can give them money, people will give them, if they want, if they don't have, I think they believe they won't get money or they don't want/need money for that (because they don't do it for money).

 

I think if the devs need data, they will create polls, those will be a lot more popular, too.

 

I'm sorry, but I don't really like your YT tutorials. I don't really understand why people would use most of those movement tricks, you should show them in action (I am sceptical a bit...).

 

This game isn't very popular, IRL events can't be done atm (at least I believe that), and I don't think they will ever be popular. Marking a continent would be great btw.

 

Noone will pay you to create hawken gameplay until you are a very good streamer/youtuber, I don't think you should advertise that.

 

Fill your patreon page with pictures, that will be a great start I think.

 

Because I've consistently contributed to the community for almost three years and am able to play every mech except possibly Rocketeer (assuming only active players are counted) at a top-20 level and am probably top five at SS, Scout, Pred, Brawler, Berserker, Brawler, and Gren for gameplay and commentary? A lot of Omni members and a couple of other players can play as many mechs as I can, but most all are leaving for other games. The movement tricks are very commonly used in high-level play; almost everyone bunnyhops and dodges to conserve fuel and short angular boosts for jukes are absolutely neccesary in A-Classes.

 

Why couldn't IRL events be hosted if I had a suitable amount of money to fly people out? 

 

Why shouldn't they get paid? Partnerships are extremely common, but the markee group has virtually no affiliation with the core community except for devo who is busy with other things now. They had a fuzzy bunnyng gathering where they barbecued and sat around drinking while mostly discussing other games sponsored by Reloaded lmao. No one is actively attempting to get money for their efforts and posters here certainly deserve it. Reloaded is unwilling to, admittedly for good reasons, hire some people who put have made significant contributions. Badtings certainly deserves to be paid for the free graphic design work he's done for WW and other events for well over a year.

 

And I'm planning on improving my channel within the next few months when I get better hardware and recording equipment and will try to crowdsource a few things out to members here and compensate them. I constantly get requests for gameplay and commentary on particular classes and weapons in-game, and the rest of the high-tier players rarely pub anymore and intend to leave soon. The only reason I haven't streamed or been involved in TPG is because I'm unable to do anything over a spotty 5 Mbps down and 0.25-0.5 Mbps up DSL line--1 Gbps down and up Google Fiber is 45 minutes away from where I live.  Like I'm not trying to brag in all this but it's objectively true and I could put out weekly in-depth tutorials from the perspective of someone who actually knows how to play the game. 

Edited by Brumbpo Tungus, 24 December 2015 - 07:22 AM.

[Aregon]

Don`t get me wrong, your dedication is good, but isn`t this a little too ambitious? 

[Trigary]

Why couldn't IRL events be hosted if I had a suitable amount of money to fly people out? 

You are trying to get money for a better internet, etc. through patreon, having enough money to pay others' flight expenses is far away I think.

 

 

Why shouldn't they get paid? Partnerships are extremely common, but the markee group has virtually no affiliation with the core community except for devo who is busy with other things now. They had a fuzzy bunnyng gathering where they barbecued and sat around drinking while mostly discussing other games sponsored by Reloaded lmao. No one is actively attempting to get money for their efforts and posters here certainly deserve it. Reloaded is unwilling to, admittedly for good reasons, hire some people who put have made significant contributions. Badtings certainly deserves to be paid for the free graphic design work he's done for WW and other events for well over a year.

I didn't (want to) say they shouldn't get paid, I want to say they shouldn't get paid by you.

[JeffMagnum]

Don`t get me wrong, your dedication is good, but isn`t this a little too ambitious? 

 

ADH/Meteor did nothing in regards to putting up money for community things, and so far Reloaded has only given away relatively small donations for tournaments. How much more interest would e.g. a few hundred dollars worth of San Diego tickets generate for a F2P game over MC especially since the prizes would be distributed to new players exclusively at random? I don't foresee that changing, and Tiggs is busy with other things whereas I have virtually all day to help out on here until at least August and possibly longer depending on how it goes. Like just think about it: how much hype would even $10K in prizes generate for TPG and comp play?

 

 

You are trying to get money for a better internet, etc. through patreon, having enough money to pay others' flight expenses is far away I think.

 

 

I didn't (want to) say they shouldn't get paid, I want to say they shouldn't get paid by you.

 

It's necessary for me to do a lot of things that I'd be required to do. Obviously I can't force people to donate, but if I fuzzy bunnyed up and got lazy it'd be easy for them to stop contributing $5 per month or whatever they can swing. And why not? Do you honestly believe Tiggs is doing a better job currently than I would do when the only interaction she has here is typically giving out warning points for stupid fuzzy bunny? I get that she's busy with other stuff but tbh she's not much of a community manager for Hawken when it comes to actually interacting with players. Vana participated far more but even he didn't sponsor tournaments with prize money or significant tangible objects or anything along those lines. None of the older ones could play at a high level regardless, so their tutorials were always based on second-hand info.

 

I know some people here are relatively well-off and would love the game to have a larger playerbase. The lack of players is responsible for virtually all the matchmaking problems we're currently having, and the game is in pretty good shape balance-wise aside from a few exceptions.

Edited by Brumbpo Tungus, 24 December 2015 - 07:55 AM.

[DerMax]

No.

[ticklemyiguana]

Jeff I'm sorry. It's just too ambitious. Perhaps, maybe some day that will be a possibility, but not with anything within an order of magnitude of our current player base.

To everyone saying no based on it being a community member paying other members to aid in the creation of community events, you're being very silly. From personal experience, events like War Wednesday, The First Annual Hawkenniversary Celebration, and The Project Phoenix Initiation Celebration - events that have totaled about a thousand unique users in a game with like eight times that number of players at its peak and I would speculate measurably effected both player retention and playerbase growth could have been far more wide reaching, far more effective, and even more fun for the people involved if I had had a paid staff. Continuing the justification for what Jeff would like to do, there are few games played competitively where the competitions are hosted by the game developers. In many cases, third parties, dedicated players or organizations take the reigns on projects like these to the great benefit of the players and population.

To Jeff again, at the present time this appears too ambitious. A positive effort undoubtably, but too large a goal. I've invested too many resources, both time and money into this game and its community to have much desire to do more, especially financially. Frankly, I've been tired of more of the same for a long time. If this picks up, I will lend my experience voluntarily. If there's promise in it, I'll lend more. If you have set goals, timelines, practical ideas on resource acquisition and distribution, and you're convinced you can make it work, talk to me about it.

<3

(PS, it is worth noting that I fall on the side that says we shouldn't work for a greater playerbase until the game is more finished. I say this both as a matter of seeing too many people try the game and leave based on its current state, and also really don't think we should be making it easier to make money off Hawken without seeing some real progress. It might sound harsh, and I appreciate what updates we have and their inclusion of some core members of the community into their staff, communication, and decision making, but Reloaded still has a history to overcome, and I'd like to see my investments reciprocated.)

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 24 December 2015 - 10:49 AM.

[DerMax]

To everyone saying no, you're being very silly. From personal experience, events like War Wednesday, The First Annual Hawkenniversary Celebration, and The Project Phoenix Initiation Celebration - events that have totaled about a thousand unique users in a game with like eight times that number of players at its peak and I would speculate measurably effected both player retention and playerbase growth could have been far more wide reaching, far more effective, and even more fun for the people involved. Continuing the justification for what Jeff would like to do, there are few games played competitively where he competitions are hosted by the game developers. In many cases, third parties, dedicated players or organizations take the reigns on projects like these to the great benefit of the players and population.

It's not about Jefferson not being able to pull it off — FawkenAwesome did it, all in all, so it's doable in theory. It's about sending a message.

 

I'm just tired of seeing people think that it is their job and obligation to somehow help out the devs of their beloved game. We are already having a massive problem in the gaming industry wherein people beta-test games for absolutely free and come up with art/mechanics designs in their free time, for devs to copy and paste them to the game without lifting a finger. It's come to the point where getting invited to play a barely playable pre-alpha version of some games is considered a privilege. And now Jeff wants to go one step further and volunteer as a marketer/popularizer. Maybe we should also volunteer to write the code? And manage the servers? Hey, I know: let's just do everything for the devs and throw money at them!

 

I think it is Reloaded's job to develop and market the game, not the community's. By having created this post Jeff effectively said, "I think Reloaded are not capable of making this game a success on their own. I don't trust them."

Edited by DerMax, 24 December 2015 - 11:03 AM.

[ticklemyiguana]

It's not about Jefferson not being able to pull it off — FawkenAwesome did it, all in all, so it's doable in theory. It's about sending a message.
 
I'm just tired of seeing people think that it is their job and obligation to somehow help out the devs of their beloved game. We are already having a massive problem in the gaming industry wherein people beta-test games for absolutely free and come up with art/mechanics designs in their free time, for devs to copy and paste them to the game without lifting a finger. It's come to the point where getting invited to play a barely playable pre-alpha version of some games is considered a privilege. And now Jeff wants to go one step further and volunteer as a marketer/popularizer. Maybe we should also volunteer to write the code? And manage the servers? Hey, I know: let's just do everything for the devs and throw money at them!
 
I think it is Reloaded's job to develop and market the game, not the community's. By having created this post Jeff effectively said, "I think Reloaded are not capable of making this game a success on their own. I don't trust them."

Well, as stated above. I agree. If that's all, I think you agree with what I've stated.
Howeve I do think that if things were to get better, there should be none of that dilemma.

[crockrocket]

It's not about Jefferson not being able to pull it off — FawkenAwesome did it, all in all, so it's doable in theory. It's about sending a message.

I'm just tired of seeing people think that it is their job and obligation to somehow help out the devs of their beloved game. We are already having a massive problem in the gaming industry wherein people beta-test games for absolutely free and come up with art/mechanics designs in their free time, for devs to copy and paste them to the game without lifting a finger. It's come to the point where getting invited to play a barely playable pre-alpha version of some games is considered a privilege. And now Jeff wants to go one step further and volunteer as a marketer/popularizer. Maybe we should also volunteer to write the code? And manage the servers? Hey, I know: let's just do everything for the devs and throw money at them!

I think it is Reloaded's job to develop and market the game, not the community's. By having created this post Jeff effectively said, "I think Reloaded are not capable of making this game a success on their own. I don't trust them."

There's also a major difference between this and Fawken's efforts. Fawken didn't start his campaign until well into the silence, whereas reloaded is still actively developing the game.

It's a tricky situation though. When you see something lacking, such as community engagement, do you step and try to help? Clearly it's reloaded's responsibility, but on the other hand we all want this game to succeed.

Also I agree with Tickle as far as it being too early to advertise.

[WmMoneyFrmMissouri]

Great things usually start out as crazy ideas. Obama can't stop you from dreaming. Good hard or go home.... And going home isn't an option.... THE CULT OF EOC 2016 MUAHAHAHA

[ArchMech]

give crafty a link to that page lmao

also i approve of this begging page, keep at it

[Amidatelion]

Alright, so, feedback:

1. This would have worked a lot more smoothly if you never mentioned doing it or even "as a job" and just posited it as a monthly sort of deal where the community could pool money for prizes, art, etc. If it took off, you could have broached the idea then. As it stands, this kind of talk turns people, normally willing to give money to a community, off.
2. Further to that, running it as an indiegogo would have given your idea more traction as Patreon is generally a service for people who have something to offer. The automated monthly payments is nice for micro-revenue, but again, a turn-off, especially when you don't have a product. As it stands, you have yet to successfully deliver any of the 360noscope prizes so right now your promises are empty air.
3. Have you spoken to any of those content creators, Reloaded, etc and gotten any answers out of them? Did you reach out to Keiji/ReEvolve for a Steam Community sticky? Basically, have you really examined your options here and made a plan? Because you need a plan.

All that being said, I like the idea, even if it needs polishing. Granted that may be because I like you and the niche you would fill rather than any of the body of the idea, but ehn. If in the future you want to do this as a full-time job:

1. You are going to need to do it across multiple games. One game is not going to be able to sustain a revenue stream, and that's without even touching the problem of Hawken's minute population. 
2. You need a brand, something to make you immediately identifiable. Brumbpo Tungus, for example, is more arresting than Jeff Magnum. To go with that brand, you need exposure, which means essentially whoring yourself on social media, etc and being active and engaging in those games.

[Trigary]

He's doing something like this, you may find this helpful :)

 

https://www.youtube....ser/WarpathWrel

 

He just started doing what he is doing, he didn't ask for money, he didn't talk with the devs, but now he has a patreon page and you can hear him in the official videos, etc.

[devotion]

 

You need a brand, something to make you immediately identifiable. Brumbpo Tungus, for example, is more arresting than Jeff Magnum. To go with that brand, you need exposure, which means essentially whoring yourself on social media, etc and being active and engaging in those games.

 

if jeff magnum and cond0m joined together in a business venture, it would be suitably arresting, i think.

[SS396]

Jeff,

I'm going to be brutally honest here. I've watched a lot of streamers, I used to watch a few exclusively Hawken ones and their streams are even more unpopular than Hawken is to say the least. Even some that have been streaming Hawken for over 2 years don't have much of a following, Twitch would laugh at them and deny any request to be partnered. They just don't gather any interest from players while playing Hawken, its always the same viewers in chat. So basically you'd be completely dependant on the few dedicated Hawken lovers that are willing to fund your patreon.

I think if you want to stream, thats great. If you want to create video content great, do it. However, getting partnered and doing it strictly off of Hawken isn't going to happen. There just isn't the viewership needed to support that sort of thing. The only streamers that I know of that are partnered and streamed Hawken were partnered before they streamed Hawken. I'm not aware of anyone that streamed Hawken exclusively that has been partnered by Twitch. And even so, 5, maybe 10 viewers a stream isn't going to be the sort of thing that you can survive off of, and when you stream Hawken thats the sort of viewership you get. A few hours of you running around in Hawken annihilating everyone in game, is going to get old pretty fast. I'm all for entertaining creative content and Hawken just doesn't work with it, even watching TPG matches is not all that entertaining.

Edited by SS396, 24 December 2015 - 06:26 PM.

[crockrocket]

if jeff magnum and cond0m joined together in a business venture, it would be suitably arresting, i think.

Jeff's magnum cond0m?

[Onebullit]

...the devs are seemingly not interested in increasing the playerbase at the moment...

Maybe there is a good reason for that.

[JeffMagnum]

I'm probably going to apologize for this thread tomorrow. I've been going through some serious fuzzy bunny and haven't slept more than 10 hours in a week so I've been saying dumb things

[crockrocket]

I'm probably going to apologize for this thread tomorrow. I've been going through some serious fuzzy bunny and haven't slept more than 10 hours in a week so I've been saying dumb things

I wouldn't say it's dumb, just... Too ambitious too early. Scale it back and you're on the right track. The milge snoscope tourney for example is a great idea

[ticklemyiguana]

I'm probably going to apologize for this thread tomorrow. I've been going through some serious fuzzy bunny and haven't slept more than 10 hours in a week so I've been saying dumb things

Related: did you know this post is only the fifteenth time the word "obligatory" has been used on these forums?

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 24 December 2015 - 03:59 PM.

[devotion]

parks and rec joke and neutral milk hotel joke

[WmMoneyFrmMissouri]

WHEN THOU FEELS BLUE, EQUIP THE EOC ! BY THE FIRE OF THE BLINKING RED LIGHT YEE SHALL BE DELIVERED UNTO SALVATION. THE CULT OF EOC PROVIDES FOR ALL ROBROS! NO MONEY SHOT WILL BE TOO MERCIFUL FOR THESE NON BELIEVERS ! NAYSAYERS SHALL PURIFIED BY THE FIRE OF THE BLINKING RED LIGHT BROTHER; HOLD FAST IN YOUR BELIEF THAT THE GREAT PUCK'S PLAN IS MYSTERIOUS AND GREAT !! THE CULT ALWAYS WINS !!! MUAHAHAHA!!!

[JeffMagnum]

I'm talking to a lot of community members about advice and also about them being able to advertise in some capacity using their skillsets after I get graphic design done from either Badtings or another volenteer who will be paid for their efforts. I'm slowing the pace down significantly after my event and am waiting until I sleep consistently and feel better before I make any major moves financially on my end, but I'm planning on buying at least 100x $5 MC codes from Markee to distribute in a free raffle for new players in a few months time. Probably going to back off a little re: interfering with Reloaded in the near future and just work on DIY promotion and expanding the playerbase to solve matchmaking issuss.

I'm also getting rebranding advice from a variety of people with experience in PR and am going to revamp all social media before starting any of this

Oh and my phone died so it's been extremely hard to do anything using this S3 for the last few days. I'm getting an Xperia Z5 Premium on the 29th so that will let me collaborate way more efficiently

Additionally I'm getting $50 a month on Patreon from someone within the next week or so and a few other people plan to donate smaller amounts monthly or as a one-time deal

Edited by Brumbpo Tungus, 24 December 2015 - 07:44 PM.

[Trigary]

It has been said a few times, increasing the playerbase before Hawken is relaunched (or something like that) may be harmful in the long-run. When they announced that Tribes: Ascend will be updated a lot of players came, but most of them went after a few days. Don't advertise (yet) and when Hawken gets updated, make the new players stay.

[ATX22]

I'd recommend waiting until after the first real content update to Hawken (both requesting funding and actually creating advertising content).  More than just a mech or map, something that will stand as proof that Reloaded truly is committed to turning Hawken into something worthwhile, and not some P2W monetize-first, second, and third trash game.  Also, with money involved, make sure you don't run afoul of any copyright related issues since I'm sure you don't own any of the actual Hawken IP that you'll be recording/streaming and making money off of.

Edited by ATX22, 25 December 2015 - 12:15 AM.

[EM1O]

i'm not familiar with how it works, but i think you should have documented permissions from Reloaded, as even "Hawken" is a copyrighted name, to prevent any trademark or usage violations.  you might want to bump Tiggs or Josh before any sort of advertising commences, as you could hit a firestorm of litigation or take-downs. 

not trying to rain on your parade, because OP is basically a marvelous concept--just be careful.

[hellc9943]

It's amazing how the desperation of the community keeps on reaching new heights.

"There was madness in any direction, at any hour. If not across the Bay, then up the Golden Gate or down 101 to Los Altos or La Honda. . . . You could strike sparks anywhere. There was a fantastic universal sense that whatever we were doing was right, that we were winning. . . .

And that, I think, was the handle—that sense of inevitable victory over the forces of Old and Evil. Not in any mean or military sense; we didn’t need that. Our energy would simply prevail. There was no point in fighting—on our side or theirs. We had all the momentum; we were riding the crest of a high and beautiful wave. . . .

So now, less than five years later, you can go up on a steep hill in Las Vegas and look West, and with the right kind of eyes you can almost see the high-water mark—that place where the wave finally broke and rolled back."

[WmMoneyFrmMissouri]

It's a great book and an unreal movie.... Are you suggesting Jeff should have started this project on ether?

[(P:B)Augmentia]

Great idea. If you can work it out, all the best to you. That's all I have to say.

[DieselCat]

I'm talking to a lot of community members about advice and also about them being able to advertise in some capacity using their skillsets after I get graphic design done from either Badtings or another volenteer who will be paid for their efforts. I'm slowing the pace down significantly after my event and am waiting until I sleep consistently and feel better before I make any major moves financially on my end, but I'm planning on buying at least 100x $5 MC codes from Markee to distribute in a free raffle for new players in a few months time. Probably going to back off a little re: interfering with Reloaded in the near future and just work on DIY promotion and expanding the playerbase to solve matchmaking issuss.

I'm also getting rebranding advice from a variety of people with experience in PR and am going to revamp all social media before starting any of this

Oh and my phone died so it's been extremely hard to do anything using this S3 for the last few days. I'm getting an Xperia Z5 Premium on the 29th so that will let me collaborate way more efficiently

Additionally I'm getting $50 a month on Patreon from someone within the next week or so and a few other people plan to donate smaller amounts monthly or as a one-time deal

 

Whether this is a good idea or not atm I applaud your enthusiasm and motivation. What the hell, I'll kick in a small donation if you desire that may help in some way, let me know how too.

But get some rest dude, that pic makes you look like a guest star on an episode of the "Walking Dead" .... jk

 

*+  

[Xacius]

A lot of Omni members and a couple of other players can play as many mechs as I can, but most all are leaving for other games. 

 

It's because the skill-ceiling of Hawken is severely limited in comparison to a shooter with unrestricted aiming mechanics.  

 

Don't do this, Jeff.  Come with us; become pro at a game with aiming mechanics that will actually transfer to other FPS titles.  Don't settle with shite-tier mouse control like merl.  

 

The dark side is calling to you.  Resist it.  

 

 

Also, that isn't to say that OMNI will be gone for good.  We enjoy how Hawken plays out in comp.  We're just a bit bored with the current game, as there hasn't been a major content patch since early 2014.  If something major happens, we'll most likely be back.  For now, OMNI's focus is on shooters with decent skill-ceilings, like the new Unreal Tournament (which has been picked up by ESL).  

Edited by Xacius, 25 December 2015 - 06:40 PM.

[Aregon]

Related: did you know this post is only the fifteenth time the word "obligatory" has been used on these forums?

Huh. I find it obligatory to mention that obligatory is by now mentioned 18 times.

[crockrocket]

It's because the skill-ceiling of Hawken is severely limited in comparison to a shooter with unrestricted aiming mechanics.

Don't do this, Jeff. Come with us; become pro at a game with aiming mechanics that will actually transfer to other FPS titles. Don't settle with shite-tier mouse control like merl.

The dark side is calling to you. Resist it.


Also, that isn't to say that OMNI will be gone for good. We enjoy how Hawken plays out in comp. We're just a bit bored with the current game, as there hasn't been a major content patch since early 2014. If something major happens, we'll most likely be back. For now, OMNI's focus is on shooters with decent skill-ceilings, like the new Unreal Tournament (which has been picked up by ESL).

Ha, look at this fuzzing skrub trying to convince us that he's not a fuzzing skrub

[Xacius]

Ha, look at this fuzzing skrub trying to convince us that he's not a fuzzing skrub

fite me feggit

[crockrocket]

fite me feggit

Dumbfires only in the caves under rektage come at me breh










(and that was the last anyone ever heard from crock)

Edited by (TDM)crockrocket, 26 December 2015 - 12:55 AM.