35 replies to this topic

[c0wb0ys7y13]

After playing a hundred or so games, I'm of the opinion that if one team has a Technician on their team and the other doesn't, the game is already decided.  It's not to dis-similar to the impact the medic has in TF2.  His presence on only one side of the battlefield causes the match to swing in a really noticeable and un-fun way.  Hawken is only really fun when he's not on the battlefield at all, or both teams have at least one on their team.

 

Suggestion: The Technician is such a massive force multiplier that it really should be freely available (or cheaply available) to all pilots.  7k HC is too steep for a Mech that is required for a team to be competitive.

Edited by c0wb0ys7y13, 28 March 2015 - 11:37 AM.

[Brawler_Yukon]

What tier matches are you playing? I play mid tier and Tech doesn't decide anything, a good Tech CAN influence the game, but not by enough to be a decisive victory, an equally skilled Raider is much more likely to actually win the game for their team. 

 

People really need to get off the hate bandwagon for the Tech just because they don't have the ability or don't care enough to deal with it.

Edited by Brawler_Yukon, 28 March 2015 - 11:13 AM.

[Hustler01]

Techs don't decide games, pilots do.

[Brawler_Yukon]

Techs don't decide games, pilots do.

I don't understand how that's such a hard concept for so many to wrap their heads around.

[c0wb0ys7y13]

Its no more hate than I give to the Medic from TF2.  Its not OP, its just a force multiplyer.  Each team needs access but in Hawken that force multiplier is behind a pay wall and its causing big imballanced in pub games.  And i don't know what tier I'm playing in, im just playing.

[CrimsonKaim]

Tech do not necessarily decide games, but they definately push the team to the win. You have for sure a disadvantage if you miss a technician.

[Elite_is_salty]

That is major exaggeration.

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

It all depends on the pilot.  If the tech is bad, then the team loses out on having a reliable healer AND damage.

[DisorderlyMechanic]

If no one's suppressing the team with a tech that team is then obviously going to be at an advantage but it's not always going to win. Sometimes having a tech can leave the team it's on at disadvantage because it's one player that cannot deal as much damage as another mech that could've been placed on it's team thus giving the other team an damage advantage.

 

Also 7000 isn't considered a lot of HC at all, and after you've played 100 games you should easily have that amount and much more. I'd also like to point out that "fun" is an opinion and just because you feel like losing isn't fun then that's fine but don't group all players into that margin.

[spo0n]

I don't know if anyone remembers, but there were a lot of free hc (could be mc people bought too, I'm not sure) codes going around that had a tech attached to them.  A bunch of players redeemed the codes and didn't know about the tech and now have like six of them.

 

 

This does seem like a nice thing to offers new players, kinda like NEWRECRUIT, maybe give everyone an email with a free tech after they play for a week or two?

[c0wb0ys7y13]

If no one's suppressing the team with a tech that team is then obviously going to be at an advantage but it's not always going to win. Sometimes having a tech can leave the team it's on at disadvantage because it's one player that cannot deal as much damage as another mech that could've been placed on it's team thus giving the other team an damage advantage.

 

Also 7000 isn't considered a lot of HC at all, and after you've played 100 games you should easily have that amount and much more. I'd also like to point out that "fun" is an opinion and just because you feel like losing isn't fun then that's fine but don't group all players into that margin.

"His presence on only one side of the battlefield causes the match to swing in a really noticeable and un-fun way"

 

Never said loosing isn't fun.  unbalanced games aren't fun, regardless of what side you are on.

Edited by c0wb0ys7y13, 28 March 2015 - 11:38 AM.

[c0wb0ys7y13]

Techs don't decide games, pilots do.

yes yes, a player w/o fingers is probably bad at playing Technition.  You have to look at these things under the lens of all things being equal.

[Pastorius]

If you are in teamspeak and you have a really good technician pilot and I mean a really good one.
One that looks after the whole team and communicates exactly where they are and who they're covering.
One that lets you know when the green beam is on and off.
One that moves like Jagger and never gets in the way...
 
Then you have a game changer. 
 
Sadly, a lot of Technician pilots (especially in the lower tears) glue themselves to the first C-Class they see and use them as a fast route to a high score and higher MMR.
 
You have to start somewhere though.
 
Edit: Also, having a Technician is a trade off as you are one "high damage" mech down in that team. It all depends on the circumstances as to how viable it is at the time. 
 
Edit 2: If you come across one glued to a C-Class. Always take the Technician out first.

Edited by Pastorius, 28 March 2015 - 11:48 PM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

I don't understand how that's such a hard concept for so many to wrap their heads around.

Because that's logically fallacious nonsense.

[Brawler_Yukon]

Because that's logically fallacious nonsense.

The only fallacy here is the premise that all mechs are equal.

[KilleR_OrigiNs]

Redacted.

Edited by KilleR_OrigiNs, 30 April 2015 - 10:19 PM.

[Pastorius]

Edit: *Snip* 

 

Sorry, I don't know why I'm getting in to this really... 

 

Ooooh ^^Dr_Freeze. Now there is a good Technician pilot ;)

Edited by Pastorius, 28 March 2015 - 01:29 PM.

[KilleR_OrigiNs]

Redacted. 

Edited by KilleR_OrigiNs, 30 April 2015 - 10:19 PM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

The only fallacy here is the premise that all mechs are equal.

Think about the "Techs don't win games, people do" statement this way.

"Cars don't kill, people do."
"Guns don't kill, people do."

While human agency is needed for any of those tools to kill, the effectiveness of the tool can not be removed from consideration, and places too much emphasis on the proximate cause.

[Brawler_Yukon]

Think about the "Techs don't win games, people do" statement this way.

"Cars don't kill, people do."
"Guns don't kill, people do."

While human agency is needed for any of those tools to kill, the effectiveness of the tool can not be removed from consideration, and places too much emphasis on the proximate cause.

Oh no, uh-uh, I ain't having this one, this is a landmine and I'm stepping away. You can talk all you want about how mech's kill people(To use your own example), I'll be over here, far, far, away from that lunacy.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Oh no, uh-uh, I ain't having this one, this is a landmine and I'm stepping away. You can talk all you want about how mech's kill people(To use your own example), I'll be over here, far, far, away from that lunacy.

So, logic to you is lunacy? Speaks volumes about you your critical thinking abilities. I suppose that's not surprising as your logical analysis skills are so weak you obviously can't see the basic logical formula of the argument. You're too hung up on the whole "kill" part. "X doesn't Y, people do.", with X being the object, and Y being the action.

"Food doesn't satiate hunger, people do."
"Brushes don't straighten hair, people do."
"Phones don't call, people do."

The point is, you can't just write off a mech as a non-factor because it plays an integral part of what happens when it is involved. So, when a Tech is involved you cannot just ignore it as if it was any other mech.

[Brawler_Yukon]

So, logic to you is lunacy? Speaks volumes about you your critical thinking abilities. I suppose that's not surprising as your logical analysis skills are so weak you obviously can't see the basic logical formula of the argument. You're too hung up on the whole "kill" part. "X doesn't Y, people do.", with X being the object, and Y being the action.

"Food doesn't satiate hunger, people do."
"Brushes don't straighten hair, people do."
"Phones don't call, people do."

The point is, you can't just write off a mech as a non-factor because it plays an integral part of what happens when it is involved. So, when a Tech is involved you cannot just ignore it as if it was any other mech.

It speaks volumes to how you don't understand I'm not having this discussion. I thought No was supposed to mean No. I'm not going to dignify you with any more responses since you lack any common courtesy. 

Edited by Brawler_Yukon, 28 March 2015 - 10:31 PM.

[Sylhiri]

AJK does it again.

[Grollourdo]

Yet another topic on the tech ... OK...

The tech does not define a win or a loss. ....

If team 1 has tech and team 2doesnt then if team 2know how to counter a tech then team 2wins if team 2doesnt then it only influences the game a bit.....

I'm too lazy tilo re write the same posts I posted a few times in other threads .... Maybe I'll post latter

[AsianJoyKiller]

It speaks volumes to how you don't understand I'm not having this discussion. I thought No was supposed to mean No. I'm not going to dignify you with any more responses since you lack any common courtesy. 

Oh, I'm sorry, I thought I was being courteous. After all, I'm modeling myself after you, and you find it courteous to call someone's logical argument "lunacy".

Stop pretending you're on the moral high ground.

[HugeGuts]

The Technician hurts the game from a design perspective as well. It especially hurts a f2p game that relies on generating new content. Given that medic classes, in any form, are a force multiplier, I'm sure there are classes that could never be in the game because the Technician would make an OP combo.

I would gladly sacrifice the Technician's healing to have more classes!

[Dr_Freeze001]

^{Is AJK vs Brawler over? Is it safe to get in now?}

 

^Aight.

 

 

A tech on a team has, as all other mechs, advantages and disadvantages. The team with the tech have one less player to do significant damage. The trade-off is that the team with the tech has a larger potential healthpool. Remember, the tech can only heal one teammate at a time (this is when a good tech pays off, to be able to sustain more than one player on the front line), and for the rest it'll be much like a regular fight.

 

The difference between the tech winning games and not, isn't the player, it's the players.

 

A tech is only as strong as his team.

[CrimsonKaim]

This thread feels like the origin of a new meta. Like in LoL. Now we have 6 Players:

 

1 Tank

2 B-Class Assaults

2 A-Class (One Technicican)

1 Sniper (A or B)

 

Wasn't this discussed over, like, 23 pages on the old forums? 

[Pastorius]

Wasn't this discussed over, like, 23 pages on the old forums? 

Yes mate, that's why I snipped my earlier post. That and the fact that I could sense AJK heating up! I love him to pieces but sometimes it's better just to smile politely and run like fuzz in the oposite direction. 

[WWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW]

What tier matches are you playing? I play mid tier and Tech doesn't decide anything, a good Tech CAN influence the game, but not by enough to be a decisive victory, an equally skilled Raider is much more likely to actually win the game for their team. 
 
People really need to get off the hate bandwagon for the Tech just because they don't have the ability or don't care enough to deal with it.

 
 

Techs don't decide games, pilots do.

 
 

I don't understand how that's such a hard concept for so many to wrap their heads around.

 
 

That is major exaggeration.

 
 

If no one's suppressing the team with a tech that team is then obviously going to be at an advantage but it's not always going to win. Sometimes having a tech can leave the team it's on at disadvantage because it's one player that cannot deal as much damage as another mech that could've been placed on it's team thus giving the other team an damage advantage.
 
Also 7000 isn't considered a lot of HC at all, and after you've played 100 games you should easily have that amount and much more. I'd also like to point out that "fun" is an opinion and just because you feel like losing isn't fun then that's fine but don't group all players into that margin.

 
I'm legitimately disgusted by a lot of the responses here. These are the exact same sort of ignorant, close-minded responses that have been occurring ever since beta at least open beta. The Tech has been disproportionately affecting game flow ever since being added while simultaneously being disproportionately effective at different skill levels, similar to the Hellfires. The HC and MC paywalls have also already been criticized multiple times as being too significant. Even if these issues were nonexistent, the attitudes that are shown off frequently amount to jeering at new players instead of just sticking with courtesy and teaching them strategies and workarounds. Whatever one says can only speak for the contexts one plays in, and as much as I agree with tuning for competitive play, tuning while completely disregarding the wider public's thoughts is outright absurd and ignorant of the possibilities that exist to tune for both competitive and casual play.

 

@OP: Sorry c0wb0ys7y13, the Hawken community can be very elitist and repulsive at times, but I hope you find enough reason to stay with Hawkenregardless. Although I do not personally have significant trouble dealing with Techs, I do agree that they are very easy to be effective with and teams that play to the Tech's advantage will tend to play in a manner that draws out fights.

 

Techs are very fragile, so if you are fighting a team that has one, try your best to flank the enemy team and attack from behind, focusing either on the Tech or weak enemies that are trying to heal or are waiting for a heal. Other options include coordinating with your team to focus-fire one particular mech at a time, preferably the Tech first. The Tech has trouble healing a mech if it is under attack by multiple targets at once because the rate of healing is relatively slow. If you find yourself in a duel with a non-Tech, and then suddenly a Tech comes to help your enemy, treat the situation as a full 2v1 and retreat.

 

I hope these strategies help you until you are able to find the HC or MC to be able to purchase your own Tech. Word of warning: their playstyle heavily relies on evasion and if you find yourself playing the Tech, you will have to rely on your positioning and dodging to stay alive. Also, I agree that the HC walls are rather high. Assuming a price of 7700 HC, 110 HC/match, and 10 min/match, you will need 700 min of matches (almost 12 hours) of gameplay. This is without factoring in bonuses, delays to bonuses, leaves (wasted time because they offer no HC), HC spent on experimentation with other components, holo taunts, or any other such matters. For people who have other matters to attend to besides Hawken, 12 hours of grinding is a big risk if they might not even like the mech they purchase.

[Grollourdo]

^{Is AJK vs Brawler over? Is it safe to get in now?
 
Aight.}
 
 
A tech on a team has, as all other mechs, advantages and disadvantages. The team with the tech have one less player to do significant damage. The trade-off is that the team with the tech has a larger potential healthpool. Remember, the tech can only heal one teammate at a time (this is when a good tech pays off, to be able to sustain more than one player on the front line), and for the rest it'll be much like a regular fight.
 
The difference between the tech winning games and not, isn't the player, it's the players.
 
A tech is only as strong as his team.

God so true .... (Advantages and dissadvantages ... Lol I bet you got that from me XD)

[Pastorius]

OK, so yeh we have the usual bad manners rearing their head again and that definitely isn't cool. There are some wonderful things about this community but we sometimes get it very wrong.The fact is that this is an emotive subject in HAWKEN and it has been done to death in the past. I guess we need to remember that new members to the forum do not know this. It's too easy to approach these topics with the "Oh for fuzz's sake not this again" attitude. The only reason I held back from participating was that I could see where it was going. 

 

So, my original reply was not supposed to sound elitest at all and I'm sorry if it came across that way. The point I was trying to make is that it's easy to watch a team with a Technician continually dominate a match and immediately see the red mist without thinking about the how, why and what can we do? I do understand that the grind is tough in HAWKEN. It's easy for those of us that have been here for a long time to forget just how tough it is.

 

This is only my opinion but I'm not sure the subject is as black and white as some people insist.  

 

The fact is that a Technician can change a game. The question that arises from this fact is; How do we deal with that while playing with and against one?

 

I have stated above what I think makes a good Technician pilot from my own point of view but it may be constructive for others to offer more advice on this and also how to combat a team playing a Technician.

 

Perhaps someone like Dr_Freeze could create a new thread entitled "Playing with/against the Technician" and  insist that people stay on the topic of tactics rather than just turning it into another "is this OP" thread? 

 

Finally, thanks for the original post c0wb0ys7y13. As you can see from the responses above; it's a huge can of worms you have reopened here.

Edited by Pastorius, 29 March 2015 - 01:51 AM.

[Grollourdo]

OK, so yeh we have the usual bad manners rearing it's head again and that definitely isn't cool. There are some wonderful things about this community but we sometimes get it very wrong.The fact is that this is an emotive subject in HAWKEN and it has been done to death in the past. I guess we need to remember that new members to the forum do not know this. It's too easy to approach these topics with the "Oh for fuzz's sake not this again" attitude. The only reason I held back from participating was that I could see where it was going. 

 

So, my original reply was not supposed to sound elitest at all and I'm sorry if it came across that way. The point I was trying to make is that it's easy to watch a team with a Technician continually dominate a match and immediately see the red mist without thinking about the how, why and what can we do? I do understand that the grind is tough in HAWKEN. It's easy for those of us that have been here for a long time to forget just how tough it is.

 

This is only my opinion but I'm not sure the subject is as black and white as some people insist.  

 

The fact is that a Technician can change a game. The question that arises from this fact is; How do we deal with that while playing with and against one?

 

I have stated above what I think makes a good Technician pilot from my own point of view but it may be constructive for others to offer more advice on this and also how to combat a team playing a Technician.

 

Perhaps someone like Dr_Freeze could create a new thread entitled "Playing with/against the Technician" and  insist that people stay on the topic of tactics rather than just turning it into another "is this OP" thread? 

 

Finally, thanks for the OP Cowboys7y13. As you can see from the responses above; its a huge can of worms you have reopened here.

 

Agreed XD

[Plantblock]

I supose making servers on wich tech is diseabled would be the best solution, cause one th one hand it realy does mess up the game flow ,but on the other hand its the ony real support mech, the only mech that doesnt need to make kills/Assists to be useful(and it realy makes fun to play).

[BaronSaturday]

I play on a team. On that team are 3 core mechs. I play a Tech. We havr a raider, and an infiltrator. When we see another Tech on the other team we "push in". The Raider hits the thing being healed causing the conflict needed to open up the Tech to be jumpes by the infiltrator. This is one of many tactics we use to drop enemy techs. Not to mention Tech baiting, suicide greening, orb lord pushing. We have developed strategies to eliminate techs. This can be done with or without a Tech of your own and with any combination of mechs.

[KilleR_OrigiNs]

Redacted. 

Edited by KilleR_OrigiNs, 30 April 2015 - 10:19 PM.