56 replies to this topic

[LobsterBox]

Incinerator is actually fine but keeping it from eating heat from its healer would be good.

[Grollourdo]

What I said still stands, you should not balance a mech by making it help your opponent with your own ability. I don't see that as balance or nerfing, I see it as breaking a skill.

Yeah good point

[Fstroke]

I honestly think they way to balance the incin is to dramatically increase the radius of its heat soak support ability. Crazy right?

Right now it only soaks in close proximity, essentially creating a symbiosis with only the tech glued to its ass.

If it has a larger AOE then it will soak heat from more teammates as well as enemies, this will through off its firing rhythm particularly with the Papa, forcing it to dump heat whether it has acquired a target or not. Overheating in an incin is very punishing to its play style as far as I am aware and this will drastically increase its risk of overheating. Once overheated its heat soak ability is suspended until cooled off.

I only see the pros in this change. It will make the incin more difficult to play correctly, but if played correctly it is still a unique mech with a unique role with punishing damage.

[Panzermanathod]

Increasing the AOE or the amount of heat drained I'm fine with. Just not draining the enemy's heat.

[Fstroke]

Increasing the AOE or the amount of heat drained I'm fine with. Just not draining the enemy's heat.

Well it already does so they would have to change that

[Panzermanathod]

It doesn't drain enemy heat. At least, I've never seen it drain enemy heat.

[BigTittys88]

People are just jumping on the incinerator Op bandwagon.

 It's supposedly OP papa primary does less max dps than a smc (~100) after the lastest patch . The papa overheat in 2 second unlike the smc , so you actually need to take a long break to fire off the heat, reducing further it's dps ( a good guess is approx 80) and you need to land the secondary to do any damage. When you add the windup speed, you further reduce the practical dps.  The slow secondary can't hit any flying target unless at point blank range, and with its slow moving speed and no early detonation and obviousness and damage fall off, it's a terrible mid to long range projective, and It's only viable at close range.  This mech is arguably the worst for 1v1 because all you have to do is jump and air dodge to avoid the the majority of it's damaging ability. Without a tech ,most other mechs will contribute in group fights more.

 

Copied.

Edited by BigTittys88, 02 April 2015 - 10:09 AM.

[JackVandal]

It doesn't drain enemy heat. At least, I've never seen it drain enemy heat.

it doesn't drain enemy heat, i believe it gives enemy's heat in the same way it takes from its team, same radius, correct me if im wrong though.

[Amidatelion]

The Incin drains enemy heat as well.

[Panzermanathod]

The game only says it drains from allies. Wiki says allies and enemies.

 

Until I see/notice it for myself I'm gonna lean towards the game's descrition for now.

 

Edit: Huh. Apparently it does.

Edited by Panzermanathod, 02 April 2015 - 10:30 AM.

[Fstroke]

I once made the same mistake. The only reason I am certain is I have tested it myself.

[Panzermanathod]

Yeah, I just tested it myself as well.

 

Makes that little debate me and Groll had moot.

 

So since the incinerator drains enemy heat doesn't that make it a bit less "OP"? I mean, this doesn't change my stance on the Incinerator on its own, I still say it's fine as is as a support mech that happens to have a weapon that will screw you over if you use it wrong.

[petracles]

To be honest, I'm a little surprised this Incin/Tech OP bandwagon is this big. As stated before, the Incin fails to be as popular and effective at higher mmr's due to better players knowing how to neutralize the Tech quickly, while taking advantage of the Incin's awkward range. That said, I have no say as to how this mech is playing out at lower mmr's.

 

What people said about the Incin/Tech balancing - I completely agree. These two mechs work a little too well with one another. Some adjustments can be made, but in no way are the two together "gamebreaking."

 

My last point I guess is more towards the Incin's play-style and how it just really, in my honest opinion, is not suited for Hawken. Granted some pilots love the mech, to me to just doesn't fit. It couldn't embody DPS-spam any more, and I find the whole left-right-mouse-spam of the mech rather silly, like your primary and secondary have no real difference to them. This mech plays just like an Assault G2 to me - it has about one or two places in the game where it's truly effective, and everywhere else it is just, well, "let's hold the mouse button(s) and spacebar!! Yay!!!"

Edited by petracles, 02 April 2015 - 10:47 AM.

[Fstroke]

Yeah, I just tested it myself as well.

Makes that little debate me and Groll had moot.

So since the incinerator drains enemy heat doesn't that make it a bit less "OP"? I mean, this doesn't change my stance on the Incinerator on its own, I still say it's fine as is as a support mech that happens to have a weapon that will screw you over if you use it wrong.

While as it stands now you have to be pretty close to the incin for the effect. Right now its inconsequential since it is basically giving the incin ammo. Plus you are well with range of its ability then and that thing will hurt.

The incin right now is no doubt powerful. The tech/incin combo is broken because techs heat management is supposed to be what balances it, which is a joke to begin with.

[Amidatelion]

To be honest, I'm a little surprised this Incin/Tech OP bandwagon is this big. As stated before, the Incin fails to be as popular and effective at higher mmr's due to better players knowing how to neutralize the Tech quickly, while taking advantage of the Incin's awkward range. That said, I have no say as to how this mech is playing out at lower mmr's.

 

 

Disagree. At the highest levels of TPG a good team will make sure their tech is protected while pumping out an obscene volume of fire and still getting healed.

[Panzermanathod]

I dunno, it kinda seems like  since there is a debate over that thing it might be more "opinion" than some may admit.

 

I mean, even with IncinTech, it's still easier to kill the Incin than most C-Class mechs. Incin does have some awkward aiming problems at longer distances (you aren't firing both weapons at the same spot on long distances as effectively as closer range, for sure), and a good player can shoot for the tech. Even while defended, the more techs you got the fewer actual guns available to fire (even if heal beam heat is drained by the Incin, what about heal beam and firing any other weapon?)

 

I mean, even if the team can properly guard 1 or 2 techs, it's OP-ness still seems more situational and/or based more on high player skills.

[Grollourdo]

Yeah I agree man XD