33 replies to this topic

[petracles]

From a programming standpoint, would it be possible to lock a user's mech collection to one paint scheme, say 'smurf'-blue? If a player reaches a certain kill limit after a certain day, or whatever other metric you can come up with to detect a skilled player early on in his/her progress with a smurf account, have the player's entire garage be locked to the smurf paint job. Any mech earned/purchased will come in blue and the player would be barred from changing any mech's paint style. Not really hindering smurfing, but it can help identify how bad the problem is if it exists.

Edited by petracles, 13 April 2015 - 07:35 PM.

[crockrocket]

Smurfing exists in every game ever, and I don't see it ever going away.

 

The key to mitigating the effects of high level smurfs on low tier lobbies need to be mitigated through other means, such as eliminating the incentive to smurf (make sure high level players can always find a match), and increasing the player base to where balance issues are mitigated. There are other suggestions floating around, just look at any match balancing, mmr locking, or n00b-helping threads.

[BaronSaturday]

Or make their mech have a great big bright beam of light shooting straight into the air. If you look up, where the light hits a surface or sky boxs will be gif of a disapointed papa smurf.

[ticklemyiguana]

Smurfing exists in every game ever, and I don't see it ever going away.

The key to mitigating the effects of high level smurfs on low tier lobbies need to be mitigated through other means, such as eliminating the incentive to smurf (make sure high level players can always find a match), and increasing the player base to where balance issues are mitigated. There are other suggestions floating around, just look at any match balancing, mmr locking, or n00b-helping threads.

Honestly, I smurf for anonimity. While my main account does have a hard time finding matches, at some absurd number of friends and invites I just would rather play on a different account than constantly feel like I'm blowing people off. Also on my main there's some pressure to do well, whereas on the several other accounts I have privately, that pressure doesn't exist. I'm not really sure how to solve that one, incentive wise.

It might be worth noting that my main account is my second or third lowest mmr out of six accounts.

Edited by ticklemyiguana, 13 April 2015 - 08:13 PM.

[CraftyDus]

Matchmaking unnecessary, remove it and flourish.

It's holding the game back.

 

Spoiler

[BaronSaturday]

Matchmaking unnecessary, remove it and flourish.
It's holding the game back.

Spoiler

Gah fuck! Why?! No!

[AsianJoyKiller]

Matchmaking unnecessary, remove it and flourish.

It's holding the game back.

It totally screws with MMR too.

The game should either be server based, or matchmaker based. Not both.

[crockrocket]

 

 

Spoiler

Well I am significantly perturbed now. That's scarier than an IAreDave smurf.

Edited by crockrocket, 13 April 2015 - 08:06 PM.

[EM1O]

then there are those that get 'em for other reasons(s): I originally suct so terribly I had to make smurfs just to find a match. thus, what AJK sed. it was tuff getting into a server, forget matchmaking, when youre in the 1000 to 1200 basement. I made a smurf just so I could get into TAW matches (Morticius), as my best was at 1052mmr, but by the time I left TAW it had slid to around 1300. after over 2 years of this (I have to keep a log book, I have so many), I've managed to lift a few accounts (including this one) up over 1600, and have one that I've boosted to ~1800--my favorite  smurf

[nokari]

So if someone who is just generally good at FPSs comes by and does really well their first few games we brand them a smurf automatically because butthurt?

[BaronSaturday]

So if someone who is just generally good at FPSs comes by and does really well their first few games we brand them a smurf automatically because butthurt?

No one is going go come into Hawken and smash at a 2000+ mmr level in their first day.

[AsianJoyKiller]

No one is going go come into Hawken and smash at a 2000+ mmr level in their first day.

It'd be really easy to get someone to do that.

[nokari]

No one is going go come into Hawken and smash at a 2000+ mmr level in their first day.

Yeah not really that unheard of. There are lots of gamers who can generally pick up any FPS they want and be better than most of the population within an hour or two. Has nothing to do with some arbitrary goal MMR goal line if by the time the system says they're 1500 MMR they're already performing at the skill level of a 2500 MMR player.

It will only be a matter of time before the system catches up with enough data to assign a more accurate MMR. It's not justifiable to mark someone like that as a smurf just because they are naturally skilled and an automated system can't tell the difference between someone who is smurfing and someone who is just a good new player.

Edited by nokari, 13 April 2015 - 10:48 PM.

[crockrocket]

then there are those that get 'em for other reasons(s): I originally suct so terribly I had to make smurfs just to find a match. thus, what AJK sed. it was tuff getting into a server, forget matchmaking, when youre in the 1000 to 1200 basement. I made a smurf just so I could get into TAW matches (Morticius), as my best was at 1052mmr, but by the time I left TAW it had slid to around 1300. after over 2 years of this (I have to keep a log book, I have so many), I've managed to lift a few accounts (including this one) up over 1600, and have one that I've boosted to ~1800--my favorite  smurf

Sounds kinda like when I started playing. I had irl friends (at that time) whom I wanted to play with, and mmr blocked me. I almost quit close to when I started, and that is why.

[FLes]

MMR based matchmaking is a luxury, not a necessity. Since the dawn of FPS games, players of all skill levels played together. What you see as a problem, I see as whining of a spoiled generation.

[M4st0d0n]

MMR based matchmaking is the sole reason MMR exists.

 

"Remove matchmaker because it screws with MMR".

 

Facepalm.

[EM1O]

Yo! CapnJosh! 'Tiggs, whomever:

Is it possible to filter then auto-assign/transfer threads based on content to a "Meme Subject" based section, rather than include them in General Discussion, etc?

just for examples:

Tech (good, bad, remove it, OP, Repair nerf, orblords, buff/nerf, etc)

Matchmaking (useless, MMR, remove, refine, etc)

Air Compressor (and most other annoying proposals with internals, items, mech meta)

New (Mech, map, weps, etc) ideas

Smurfs

Since we don't have the "Hawken iz ded/Dying" and "Devs [place derogatory thread meme here]" content being beaten to death anymore, it seems to be natural to generate Something that eventually begs you to unload the .357 at the monitor screen...  :D

Edited by em1o, 14 April 2015 - 03:58 AM.

[petracles]

So if someone who is just generally good at FPSs comes by and does really well their first few games we brand them a smurf automatically because butthurt?

 
@nokari Just an example I used for the OP. I think we would all want any auto-detection to be implemented in a way that early-skilled players weren't lumped into the smurf bin. Anyways, this is all only relevant if you believe smurfing is legitimate detriment to the game, which I don't.
 

If a player reaches a certain kill limit after a certain day, or whatever other metric you can come up with to detect a skilled player early on in his/her progress with a smurf account...

Edited by petracles, 14 April 2015 - 05:41 AM.

[BluetoothBoy]

Here's the issue with trying to deal with smurfs in these ways. What happens when you start playing Hawken and you're just good? I'm no pro player or anything, but I was a slightly above-average FPS player before I started playing Hawken, which resulted in me winning most of the low MMR matches I was in at first. I have a friend I got into the game not too long ago, and in our first match he killed me several times without breaking a sweat. Players like these would be wrongly labeled as smurfs if an anti-smurfing system was put into place. With the general anonymity of the Internet, there's just no good way of doing this properly.

[nokari]

 
@nokari Just an example I used for the OP. I think we would all want any auto-detection to be implemented in a way that early-skilled players weren't lumped into the smurf bin. Anyways, this is all only relevant if you believe smurfing is legitimate detriment to the game, which I don't.
 

The point is that it is not auto-detectable. What information can code get that helps it accurately identify someone who has created a new account vs someone who has played before on a different account? You'd probably say IP, but not everyone uses a static IP.

[AsianJoyKiller]

The point is that it is not auto-detectable. What information can code get that helps it accurately identify someone who has created a new account vs someone who has played before on a different account? You'd probably say IP, but not everyone uses a static IP.

And then you have people playing in the same household, or on the same campus, etc.

[CraftyDus]

The point is that it is not auto-detectable. What information can code get that helps it accurately identify someone who has created a new account vs someone who has played before on a different account? You'd probably say IP, but not everyone uses a static IP.

 

Through steam you can trace the paypal email I use to blow $300+ per smurf account in the process of actively supporting the new devs while many sit on maxed out accounts and maybe buy a t-shirt.

or

Or

OR

You can mind your damn business and enjoy playing a sweet free videogame.

Edited by craftydus, 14 April 2015 - 08:34 AM.

[nokari]

Through steam you can trace the paypal email I use to blow $300+ per smurf account in the process of actively supporting the new devs while many sit on maxed out accounts and maybe buy a t-shirt.

or

Or

OR

You can mind your damn business and enjoy playing a sweet free videogame.

A smurf account is a new account under a different email, which you wouldn't be required to connect a PayPal account nor the same one you used before.

[crockrocket]

A smurf account is a new account under a different email, which you wouldn't be required to connect a PayPal account nor the same one you used before.

Regardless of hawken account, you'ld be logging in through the same steam account and therefore buying through the same email/paypal.

[petracles]

The point is that it is not auto-detectable. What information can code get that helps it accurately identify someone who has created a new account vs someone who has played before on a different account? You'd probably say IP, but not everyone uses a static IP.

 

Good point, that's the type of answer I was looking for. I'm interested to see if there's an implementation out there that makes sense and works with this whole "auto-detect" concept.

[MomOw]

How do you make the difference between a n00b stomper smurf, a new account (sync issue, or just wanting to start over from scratch) and a good player with too high MMR forced to create a new account to find opened servers ?

[nokari]

Good point, that's the type of answer I was looking for. I'm interested to see if there's an implementation out there that makes sense and works with this whole "auto-detect" concept.

Another thing unconsidered are people in the same house using different accounts on the same computer or multiple computers on the same IP.

[nokari]

Regardless of hawken account, you'ld be logging in through the same steam account and therefore buying through the same email/paypal.

1) You're assuming they would be grabbing steam info between all accounts and cross-checking them all at each account creation, 2) you're assuming it's not 2+ people using the same computer logging into different Hawken accounts under the same Steam client, and 2) assuming the user wouldn't just create another steam account using another email.

Edited by nokari, 14 April 2015 - 10:58 AM.

[crockrocket]

1) You're assuming they would be grabbing steam info between all accounts and cross-checking them all at each account creation, 2) you're assuming it's not 2+ people using the same computer logging into different Hawken accounts under the same Steam client, and 2) assuming the user wouldn't just create another steam account using another email.

I was speaking to Crafty's case specifically, but yeah. Honestly I don't really care, the devs have better things to do than going after people for smurfing.

[CraftyDus]

Too damn funny.

 

Smurf accounts are an important revenue stream supporting the new devs.

If you have a solitary account you have pimped out and aren't spending money on much anymore, and you believe ANYONE that matters is interested to catering to your obsession with smurfs to the tune of restricting these lucrative accounts, you are delusional.

 

I also have more automobiles and children than I need.

It's not any concern of yours.

I'd suggest crying a river to the mother you still live with. You Child.

 

Very few of these angry anti-smurf nerds have been wiping their own rear-ends long enough for anyone out here in the real world to assign much gravitas to this odd infatuation some of them have with other peoples belongings.

 

Again my many, many, many smurf accounts in Hawken are none of your business. 

Enjoy playing this sweet free game. 

 

Spoiler

 

[AsianJoyKiller]

Too damn funny.

 

Smurf accounts are an important revenue stream supporting the new devs.

If you have a solitary account you have pimped out and aren't spending money on much anymore, and you believe ANYONE that matters is interested to catering to your obsession with smurfs to the tune of restricting these lucrative accounts, you are delusional.

 

I also have more automobiles and children than I need.

It's not any concern of yours.

I'd suggest crying a river to the mother you still live with. You Child.

 

Very few of these angry anti-smurf nerds have been wiping their own rear-ends long enough for anyone out here in the real world to assign much gravitas to this odd infatuation some of them have with other peoples belongings.

 

Again my many, many, many smurf accounts in Hawken are none of your business. 

Enjoy playing this sweet free game. 

And let's be honest. Even if this wasn't an issue of "mind your own business", there's no real evidence that high MMR players smurfing is actually a problem.

If we accounted for every 2000+ player on the forums who has admitted to smurfing, that would account for far less than 1% of the active accounts.

And high MMR players account for what? About 2%~ish of the active population?

Unless they're all machines who can play multiple copies of Hawken at the same time, and do it without ever sleeping, eating or otherwise taking breaks, it's physically impossible for them to causing a big of a problem as it is often claimed.

[crockrocket]

 

And high MMR players account for what? About 2%~ish of the active population?
 

Less, according to Hyginos' histogram.

 

Nevermind, key word active

Edited by crockrocket, 14 April 2015 - 12:40 PM.

[petracles]

I agree with AJK and crafty - even if smurfing was an issue, which to me it's absolutely not (it's been around forever, across countless MP games out there, and is not some new pandemic), it applies to such a small percentage of players that it's not worth it to try and weed out.

 

That said, I think the salt is great @craftydus. Keep it comin'

 

And for the record, this OP was just outta curiosity for automating smurf detection from a programming standpoint. I wasn't keen on digging up more smurf vs. anti-smurf vitriol...

[CraftyDus]

 
That said, I think the salt is great @craftydus. Keep it coming.