318 replies to this topic

[JackDandy]

MechMechanics1 said:

It's obvious. They are aiming to put the game on the weak consoles.


I don't expect much from this game from now on.....

Geez, cry some more will you_

Graphics aren't everything.

[MechMechanic]

....then cancel out any progress of technology.....


Suffice with a Game Cube, hell no, why not stay with a Commodore 64/128_

I wonder why I7 exists and so XFX AMD Radeon HD 6990 4GB_ No wonder why the video game industry is held down by the weak consoles.

It's a retarded idea to downgrade and gimp a great game just to fit in on the consoles. Any developer develops the idea on PC, maximize and optimize then he throws the game to the main stream. Why bring it up to the weak consoles when the game will be gimped for the brain dead during the design process_

Graphics will not be the only downgrade. The game play will be affected as well. The aim of keyboard and mouse is much better than a joystick. It's more precise and feels more natural.
The complexity will be sacrificed if it's aimed to the casual brain dead.

Anyway, if they want to throw the game and fuck up their idea, good for them. The same history will be repeated again and again until the next generation comes.

Why not wise up and wait for the 720 and the PS4, probe the idea on PC and make the reputation first in PC and expand later on the next generation_ Why is this so hard to get_
Console peasants can wait one or two years.

[Varaka]

MechMechanics1 said:

....then cancel out any progress of technology.....


Suffice with a Game Cube, hell no, why not stay with a Commodore 64/128_

I wonder why I7 exists and so XFX AMD Radeon HD 6990 4GB_ No wonder why the video game industry is held down by the weak consoles.

It's a retarded idea to downgrade and gimp a great game just to fit in on the consoles. Any developer develops the idea on PC, maximize and optimize then he throws the game to the main stream. Why bring it up to the weak consoles when the game will be gimped for the brain dead during the design process_

Graphics will not be the only downgrade. The game play will be affected as well. The aim of keyboard and mouse is much better than a joystick. It's more precise and feels more natural.
The complexity will be sacrificed if it's aimed to the casual brain dead.

Anyway, if they want to throw the game and fuck up their idea, good for them. The same history will be repeated again and again until the next generation comes.

Why not wise up and wait for the 720 and the PS4, probe the idea on PC and make the reputation first in PC and expand later on the next generation_ Why is this so hard to get_
Console peasants can wait one or two years.

Gaming technology has progressed enough for graphics to be suitable.

Also the Xbox 720 and PS4 will still have joysticks.

[MechMechanic]

Varaka said:

Gaming technology has progressed enough for graphics to be suitable.

Also the Xbox 720 and PS4 will still have joysticks.

Anyway. I worry to much for good ideas like this one. Got tired of constantly seeing potentiality like Hawken fall off the cliff thanks to casual gaming, the mainstream and producers who think in terms of money.

Sorry for my bitchin'....

[[HWK]Deuy]

Settle down fellas!    I'm glad there is enthusiasm about PC gaming and Hawken's graphical fidelity, but I think it's time for a reality check about our game.  Hawken has never been about pushing the limits of hardware technology or becoming the next Crysis.  We are not trying to make a next-gen game that graphically blows away the competition.  We don't have the resources for that, we have ONE programmer.  If our first trailers falsely gave you that impression, it's just a testament to our art direction and methods.

Hawken is a handful of people using UDK to make a fun mech game.  We hardly even use normal or spec maps, the game runs on DirectX 10, not 11, and it runs smoothly on $800 PC's without us even optimizing anything yet.  We've said from the start we want the game to be a downloadable title for multiple platforms, but that hasn't even been established yet.  If it comes out on console, it will come out on PC as well and no one is forcing you to play with a controller on the PC.  We aren't dumbing anything down for anybody, the game has always been the way it's been and that's just how it is   

The E3 demo is the same version of Hawken that you saw in the Youtube trailers, and it was demoed on PCs.  The difference you describe could possibly be that the desert map is a little more washed out and monochrome than the city, and the video might have been captured at lower resolution or framerate than our internal ones.

I'm sorry if this lowers anyone's expectations, but if you're looking for earth-shattering, PC-melting, bleeding-edge graphics using state of the art technology, you've come to the wrong place.  If you want to spend a few bucks to stomp around in a mech, blowing up other mechs in beautiful sci-fi environments that look like concept paintings, then stick around.

[Provi]

ChrisLalli said:

The difference you describe could possibly be that the desert map is a little more washed out and monochrome than the city, and the video might have been captured at lower resolution or framerate than our internal ones.

I suspected that was the case. Are you guys looking into tweaking that map's atmosphere because of that effect_

ChrisLalli said:

I'm sorry if this lowers anyone's expectations, but if you're looking for earth-shattering, PC-melting, bleeding-edge graphics using state of the art technology, you've come to the wrong place.  If you want to spend a few bucks to stomp around in a mech, blowing up other mechs in beautiful sci-fi environments that look like concept paintings, then stick around.

I'm satisfied the way it is. Don't be too phased by us forum regulars, we are biased since we are the PC crowd.

[xXxTALONxXx]

You know its not necessarily the canvas, brush, paint, and tools used that make a masterpiece.

Its the mind, the passion and skills used that creates the imagery of the masterpiece.

[JackDandy]

You know it, Chris. Pay no attention to trolls like that guy. Just keep working hard  

Anyone who uses a dumbass internet term like "Console peasants" is obviously looking to spark a fight for no good reason.

[MechMechanic]

Jack Dandy said:

You know it, Chris. Pay no attention to trolls like that guy.

Any discussion of your legendary idiocy should not be discussed here. However we are not here to read it neither your lack of intelligence writing words you don't even comprehend but...

That's another story...

[NoamFer]

Us true fans won't be let down. I constantly check the sites for new information just so I won't accidentally miss the release date.

But still, my computer is pretty worn out, years of using and smashing it with my fists (don't ask) made it a little bit worse than how it was, but I also have a lot to clean up on the files. I hope I would be able to run the game properly.

[Ashfire908]

Can we please get back on topic_

The_Silencer said:

Do not forget, please, about this probably crazy idea for a new gameplay mode that I did post on here some few months ago.

My current criteria for adding a topic to the list is if the topic has at least 5-7 posts (that go somewhere). This is done so I don't have to get involved in determining if an idea is a good one or not (otherwise personal biases get involved and I might include ones I like and not include ones I don't). Unfortunatly this lets topics that may be important slip by if no one really commented on it. I'll look at going back and adding topics that are noteable to the list.

[MechMechanic]

Lets get to the point...

ChrisLalli said:

Settle down fellas!    I'm glad there is enthusiasm about PC gaming and Hawken's graphical fidelity, but I think it's time for a reality check about our game.

I don't need to have any reality check. I know exactly how the industry works and how to measure my expectations. The money are made with the casual brain dead console morons. The crysis model is unsustainable as a business model on recessional times like this one, moreover when resources are scarse. That's why you see why many developers throwing their bone for consoles.

Is this a surprise or a novelty_ No, we expect to see a team focusing on a downloadable reachable project. However I work with computer graphics and animation in my architectural masters program. For me is easy to discern between graphics and artistry.

ChrisLalli said:

Hawken has never been about pushing the limits of hardware technology or becoming the next Crysis.  We are not trying to make a next-gen game that graphically blows away the competition.  We don't have the resources for that, we have ONE programmer.  If our first trailers falsely gave you that impression, it's just a testament to our art direction and methods.

That's a cheap excuse, and you know it.

I don't need them. You do whatever you want with your project. We are your client and as client my only vision and mission is to express verbally my hopes, expectation and piece of mind on these whereabouts. You don't have to excuse yourself with cheap arguments. You don't need to feel the burden of proof to make the concession with anyone of us. You simply read the board and decide to throw your two cents on what we are thinking.

Your game, project and your delicacy with it will be measured in the field. Rarely I get impressed with original projects like this one. You got my attention with it. However when you decide to shoot yourself in the foot throwing this to the consoles I get frustrated again.
Gimping the game for the of money is not a good idea. You can contact any publisher, contact any publisher interested in your job. It made great news and managed to cull up many people interested in it. The old excuse of one programmer will not hold forever.

ChrisLalli said:

Hawken is a handful of people using UDK to make a fun mech game.  We hardly even use normal or spec maps, the game runs on DirectX 10, not 11, and it runs smoothly on $800 PC's without us even optimizing anything yet.

Another excuse.

If you want to go straight to the consoles and make money, please say so. You don't have to justify yourself with me or justify your actions with those excuses. Speak frankly. I am the one who will be in charge deciding if I purchase, download or skip. You keep doing your work.
It was good enough to get my attention.

ChrisLalli said:

We've said from the start we want the game to be a downloadable title for multiple platforms, but that hasn't even been established yet.  If it comes out on console, it will come out on PC as well and no one is forcing you to play with a controller on the PC.  We aren't dumbing anything down for anybody, the game has always been the way it's been and that's just how it is

Your third excuse.

I don't believe in anything you say until you prove it with the delivery. Simple.

If the game ends up being good making justice to PC gamers, PS3 gamers and 360 gamers then we could start a conversation about the achievements.

ChrisLalli said:

The E3 demo is the same version of Hawken that you saw in the Youtube trailers, and it was demoed on PCs.  The difference you describe could possibly be that the desert map is a little more washed out and monochrome than the city, and the video might have been captured at lower resolution or framerate than our internal ones.

I can't tell about the real specifications on the game. However what I saw gave me the feeling of a gimped uninteresting game. I simply started to worry about the inevitable gimping due to the consoles searching for a steady frame rate of 30 frames per second.

ChrisLalli said:

I'm sorry if this lowers anyone's expectations, but if you're looking for earth-shattering, PC-melting, bleeding-edge graphics using state of the art technology, you've come to the wrong place.

You missed the point. We are looking for a good game that makes justice to PC gamers. If the game performs well, and I'm sure it will, then you can optimize and throw it to the console peasants. They have the same right to enjoy a good game from your production.

However, this is the part you don't get about your PC clients. Graphics is one part of the equation. We PC clients like to get a game where we can modify, design, add and adjust the parameters of gaming. We like to have the freedom to mod the game and continue on designing levels for it. We like graphic options to adjust the game quality according to our machine.

The PC clients want to see graphics because their machines are more capable than the consoles. We want to see a complex gaming structure because our demography of gamers is different. We are not button pushers or mindless kids who need to be tutored and patronized on everything.  

Yes, I agree that graphics are not everything but the level of sophistication we expect is standard on the games we play for PC. Look for example Red Orchestra project. It's not a graphical game but it gives to PC players what they want.  

ChrisLalli said:

If you want to spend a few bucks to stomp around in a mech, blowing up other mechs in beautiful sci-fi environments that look like concept paintings, then stick around.

Lalli, that's a polite way to say, fuck off Mechmechanics1 with your "trolling"...: :3

I understand it quite well. However, I'm here because your work, your artistry and your dedication to the game captured my imagination and interest.

I'm here because your videos gave me something that no other game is capable to supply. I don't expect any less. However what frustrates me is how your team has this notion and tendency to behave like any generic industry sellout whores for a multi platform launch when your resources are very limited. It's dumb to go multi platform unless your target is money making.

Sad will be the result if you place ambition first instead of dedication to the quality of the project. You will be remembered and associated with the set of generic developers who tried to pull the cheap twig instead of caring for the game.

Money will come but if you are desperate for it "then I'm not going to stick around" watching how you tear apart your project.

Thanks, but no thanks......

[MechMechanic]

Ashfire908 said:

Can we please get back on topic_

The_Silencer said:

Do not forget, please, about this probably crazy idea for a new gameplay mode that I did post on here some few months ago.

My current criteria for adding a topic to the list is if the topic has at least 5-7 posts (that go somewhere). This is done so I don't have to get involved in determining if an idea is a good one or not (otherwise personal biases get involved and I might include ones I like and not include ones I don't). Unfortunatly this lets topics that may be important slip by if no one really commented on it. I'll look at going back and adding topics that are noteable to the list.

The master suggestion list is one of your good ideas. I can use this as a reference to see what's going on.

[Ashfire908]

Your ripping on the devs now_ Seriously, what is your problem_ Every time you speak about consoles you attack everyone around who doesn't agree with you. Not just the ideas. People. Resorting to insults, from the direct of name calling (see any of your previous responses) to the less direct (ie "The master suggestion list is one of your good ideas." I'm not retarded, that's just another jab). If you think you know better, then go out and make your own game, and leave us alone.

[xXxTALONxXx]

FYI Im in Architecture also, and I have two degrees

Please stop with Placebo-intellectualism BS

There are two basic types in ARCH those who are true artists and those who use the computer solely as a crutch to prop up their work, which they also have a tendency to use their mouth to fill the gap of having no talent.

...and having it run with lesser system resources means more people can play it ergo more people online to have fun with.  Thats standard business in any comp apps.

[MechMechanic]

1)aKillArmy said:

FYI Im in Architecture also, and I have two degrees

Please stop with Placebo-intellectualism BS

Evading the main points with the classical empty snide doesn't work, son.

1)aKillArmy said:

There are two basic types in ARCH those who are true artists and those who use the computer solely as a crutch to prop up their work, which they also have a tendency to use their mouth to fill the gap of having no talent.

That's a big issue in many Architecture schools. Talent comes with practice and dedication. The placebo intellectualism bullshit is left to the lawyers. Besides the computer is hurting the education of an architect in many ways. However this is not the forum for the discussion of this topic.

:3

1)aKillArmy said:

...and having it run with lesser system resources means more people can play it ergo more people online to have fun with.  Thats standard business in any comp apps.

You obviously missed the point.

[MechMechanic]

Ashfire908 said:

Your ripping on the devs now_ Seriously, what is your problem_ Every time you speak about consoles you attack everyone around who doesn't agree with you. Not just the ideas. People. Resorting to insults, from the direct of name calling (see any of your previous responses) to the less direct (ie "The master suggestion list is one of your good ideas." I'm not retarded, that's just another jab). If you think you know better, then go out and make your own game, and leave us alone.

LMAO, you are way too defensive. I was sincere with what I said. The master list suggestion idea was a good idea.

I'm being frank and honest with my opinions. Instead of assuming the "nut licking attitude" my path chosen was to think by myself and express a critical opinion. If that bathers you, then I'm sorry. Remember, there's no need to insult anyone. If you or anyone starts a hostile attitude, you need to understand that it's very unlikely to expect a love letter in return. I don't want people to agree with me, I want people to think, critique and ask questions instead of accepting everything saying "cool, I guess".

The polls "suggests" the result of releasing the game for PC. I'm not inventing things up. This community wants the game for PC for a reason.

[LordPorkSword]

MechMechanics1, while you had some good points in your rather lengthy diatribe earlier on it did delve deeply into the realm of trolling and also showed a lack of understanding with the mechanics of UDK!  
There is a difference between constructive criticism and trolling and also making suggestions and making demands...

I also found your diatribe was rather disrespectful towards the devs and you appear to be making quite a few misguided assumptions, even though Chris has tried explaining the development realties for Hawken.

[MechMechanic]

Lord_Porksword said:

MechMechanics1, while you had some good points in your rather lengthy diatribe earlier on it did delve deeply into the realm of trolling and also showed a lack of understanding with the mechanics of UDK!

I know how the UDK works. I played a lot with it struggling to do few levels for Unreal III.

Besides I'm not trolling or making fun of anyone. I'm simply frank with my "long diatribes".

Lord_Porksword said:

There is a difference between constructive criticism and trolling and also making suggestions and making demands...

Quote

And there's a difference between being honest and straight. I don't like the idea of licking anyone's. I'm not demanding anything.

Lord_Porksword said:

I also found your diatribe was rather disrespectful towards the devs and you appear to be making quite a few misguided assumptions, even though Chris has tried explaining the development realties for Hawken.

Being disrespectful to oneself is to negate the capacity of thinking and expressing what you feel. If you find my tone harsh, then sorry. I'm here to speak frankly. The game was incredibly amazing on the first few videos. However you must know by now that I personally detest and despise sellout cunts in the industry. (*points the finger to EA*)

I care for one thing, the quality of the game. If the game delivers, I pay, support and play their game. That's the way I say thank you for the great job done.

See_

[lavalamp1138]

What... where is the... I don't even... am I in the right place_ I could have sworn... did I take a wrong turn_ No... the map says I should be in the right place. But... this doesn't look right. Excuse me, I seem to be lost. Can anyone tell me if this is the "Suggestions/Ideas/Requests" thread_