206 replies to this topic

[AsianJoyKiller]

rdKNIGHTMAREZ, on November 29 2012 - 02:06 PM, said:

prove that hawken right now is tow-launcher online because we can't dual weild_
sure....
Start up hawken, join multiplayer game right now, and die to tow launcher. spamming. That almost everyone is FORCED to use.
Proven.

http://youtu.be/hM9MjOtlEHM

[rdKNIGHTMAREZ]

of course you would say its unrelated steel killer, you care more about bigging up you and your mates insulting me.

its EXTRA CREDITS do you even know what that is_

it a video about multiplayer balancing and features. I picked a video that was more ontopic than perhaps anything else in their entire friggin libary.

SO

DUMB

IT

HURTS

the game is great right now, don't get me wrong, but dual wielding would make it better. No doubt there at all.

Edited by rdKNIGHTMAREZ, November 29 2012 - 02:54 PM.

[Beemann]

Extra Credits is an opinion piece that was formerly on The Escapist that moved to PATV when the shows creators and the Escapist management had a bit of a disagreement (to underestimate it and put it very lightly)
Speaking of which, I kinda miss the old Escapist. The articles it puts out now seem very alarmist and padded for the most part.

In any case, in addition to being someone's opinion instead of actual fact, the video you linked is one that deals with individual device design, which you're currently working against. You're also working towards a situation in which the number of counters and viable options are lessened (because hitscan DPS) so it's odd that you think that pulling out this video will help you in any way

I'm not sure if you're purposely being wrong to try to evoke a reaction, or if you have some kind of reading comprehension problem, or if you've just got such bad tunnel vision at this point that anybody other than those who agree with you is seen as some sort of enemy, but in any case I haven't had this much fun in a thread that'll probably get closed since the GA forums

[rdKNIGHTMAREZ]

ill treat them as some kind of enemy when right from the begining of this thread you steel killers have been rude as frigging fuzzy bunny.

Also what you are saying is literally mathematically incorrect.

Quote

You're also working towards a situation in which the number of counters and viable options are lessened

This kind of reasoning ive been arguing against the entire time.

currently the different classes get 2 versions each.

By allowing dual wielding you get SIX variations of each class.

how is that LESS CHOICE. saying otherwise is absurd. it would instantly make the game better and more awesome.

Les TOW TOW TOW GRENADE HELLFIRE TOW TOW TOW TOW

and more...OMG dual smg i'll have to adapt.
bollocks that heavy has rifle...he will pepper me to death...i'll have to FLank him.

better more fun more awesome.

[Ace4225]

rdKNIGHTMAREZ, on November 29 2012 - 02:51 PM, said:

of course you would say its unrelated steel killer

That's a pretty prejudicial statement and shows a complete lack of respect for your peers. Talk about rude...

rdKNIGHTMAREZ, on November 29 2012 - 02:39 PM, said:

hawken boring_ are you fuzzy bunny kidding me_

You're the one who said dodging explosives in Hawken was "Boring." I was quoting you.

Edited by Ace4225, November 29 2012 - 03:23 PM.

[rdKNIGHTMAREZ]

if i compared two versions of hawken. one with dual wielding and one without, i would say the one without is more boring yes.

you can twist that if you want

[AsianJoyKiller]

rdKNIGHTMAREZ, on November 29 2012 - 03:22 PM, said:

Also what you are saying is literally mathematically incorrect.

Quote

You're also working towards a situation in which the number of counters and viable options are lessened

This kind of reasoning ive been arguing against the entire time.
currently the different classes get 2 versions each.
By allowing dual wielding you get SIX variations of each class.
how is that LESS CHOICE. saying otherwise is absurd. it would instantly make the game better and more awesome.

You are mistaking quantity (more of the same weapon) for varitey (more different weapons).

Quote

Les TOW TOW TOW GRENADE HELLFIRE TOW TOW TOW TOW

http://youtu.be/hM9MjOtlEHM

[rdKNIGHTMAREZ]

wow ONE MATCH . Also, your video kinda shows my point.

the match is full of grenades and hellfire rockets and tow Because EVERYONE IS FORCED to take them.

then in the same post you claim someone taking bullets instead of grenades/hellfire/tow is someone LESS choice.

black is white in your book asian.

but at least now you arn't making walls of personal attacks.
keep it up and you might get good at game design.

[Beemann]

Having 2x smgs is the same as just doubling the stats on one gun. It makes a much less versatile and much easier to play much. With the TOW as an unchanging secondary you may be forced into one weapon choice, but you have a gun that is effective in many more situations and you have to use it to get by
This makes the game more difficult to play since you need to manage your secondary cool down and in most cases you aim one weapon differently, leading to more than just basic tracking

Could you post some Hawken gameplay footage_
Of yourself I mean
Because the front mission footage isn't really helping your position.

[PlagueDoctor]

Only having primary weapons on a mech would be like playing a game of chess where you only get pawns. Having two of the same thing doesn't give you more options, it takes away from them. Of course "everyone is forced" to take TOWs and Grenade launchers and Hell-fires. they're as much part of the mech as the ARs and SMCs and Flaks. The combination of them leads to multiple engagement styles.

[rdKNIGHTMAREZ]

Quote

Having 2x smgs is the same as just doubling the stats on one gun.

Factually incorrect. It is the same as sacrificing the tow to double the stat on one gun.

With the tow as a FORCED CHOICE LIMITING GAMEPLAY. you get gameplay where everyone is generic and has far less personalization and style.

managing the secondary cool down_ true statement although its really not any harder than having an under-slung grenade launcher in cOD.

post hawking gameplay footage right now_ nope, new computer.

Quote

Only having primary weapons on a mech would be like playing a game of chess where you only get pawns. Having two of the same thing doesn't give you more options, it takes away from them.

I the choice is in the mech screen. by taking the risk and focusing on one strength....i sacrifice the high dps, range, accuray and corner-killing capabilities of the amazing tow. other classes sacrificing high dps of the grenade launcher.

Having the option to take that risk means i have more fun, but the game is as a whole is deeper, and the people fighting me have more fun as well.

everyone with tow/whatever = everyone is really just flying almost the exact same mech. so many light classes have the tow it almost makes the other weapon less important.

i feel like im piloting a tow rocket with a beserker mech attached to it.

That's retarded.

Edited by rdKNIGHTMAREZ, November 29 2012 - 03:48 PM.

[Titzilla]

rdKNIGHTMAREZ, on November 29 2012 - 03:35 PM, said:

wow ONE MATCH . Also, your video kinda shows my point.

the match is full of grenades and hellfire rockets and tow Because EVERYONE IS FORCED to take them.

But you've been mentioning the entire time that games are filled only with TOW rockets... Asian's video of a random game (like you mentioned he should do) shows literally only one TOW.

Also, I'm not "trolling" as you would put it, but I honestly am confused as to what your reasoning behind dual wielding being better would be, despite everyone else saying otherwise. An answer of "it automatically makes it better" is not sufficient, as that gives no evidence other than your own personal opinion.

Also, this form of dual wielding is completely different than the original posts' form, where the secondary would be kept and all that would happen would be extra weapons being loaded on to the mech. Meaning less customization and more balance issues.

Edited by Titzilla, November 29 2012 - 03:49 PM.

[PlagueDoctor]

Looking forward to a Double Vulcan mech overheating in 2 seconds.

[Ace4225]

rdKNIGHTMAREZ, on November 29 2012 - 03:45 PM, said:

the choice is in the mech screen. by taking the risk and focusing on one strength....i sacrifice the high dps, range, accuray and corner-killing capabilities of the amazing tow. other classes sacrificing high dps of the grenade launcher.

Having the option to take that risk means i have more fun, but the game is as a whole is deeper, and the people fighting me have more fun as well.

everyone with tow/whatever = everyone is really just flying almost the exact same mech. so many light classes have the tow it almost makes the other weapon less important.

i feel like im piloting a tow rocket with a beserker mech attached to it.

That's retarded.

[Conquistador]

... and how can you use team fortress or tf2 as an example of why HAWKEN needs dual wielding when it doesn't have dual wielding anywhere in either game_ Am I the only person who realises how absurd this is_

Edited by Conquistador, November 29 2012 - 03:57 PM.

[rdKNIGHTMAREZ]

well statistics means i really want to see a graph with the server gameplay records......

but to keep it simple im saying....forced choices on one arm of the mech is silly.

it feels like im a rocket launcher/grenade launcher/whatever with a mech stuck on the side.

If i had the dual smg option i would boot up the game and start right now. I would undoubtedly get kills from, and get killed by, a full mixture of mechs.

brilliant, thats what i want.

the truth is that many would pick the tow as a secondary anyway. but not EVERYONE. and thats my point the entire time.

im not saying dual smgs would be over-powered or underpowered. no i am appealing to better design.

im saying HAVING THE CHOICE makes the game better....for everyone. not just the people who would never chose , for example, dual smg on a beserker.....but for EVERYONE. 6 different combo's per mech is better game.

its not like replacing the pawns in chess..

its like adding more pieces to the board, and making the board have more squares.

Quote

how can you use team fortress or tf2 as an example when it doesn't have dual wielding_

because in tf2 i get to swap out ANY of the weapon slots. my arm isn't LOCKED by some god-engineer-in-the-sky.

Quote

Looking forward to a Double Vulcan mech overheating in 2 seconds.

Assault_ with cooling units_ and maybe some tech points in over-heating as well_

sounds fun to kill XD

Edited by rdKNIGHTMAREZ, November 29 2012 - 03:58 PM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

rdKNIGHTMAREZ, on November 29 2012 - 03:45 PM, said:

Quote

Having 2x smgs is the same as just doubling the stats on one gun.

Factually incorrect. It is the same as sacrificing the tow to double the stat on one gun.

You say that 2x SMCs is equal to double the stats is false and then go on to immediately say that 2x SMCs is equal to doubling the stats.
Seriously. You just proved Beemann was right, while telling him he was wrong.

Also, comparing the secondaries in Hawken to the CoD GL_ Are you serious, there is not a single weapon in Hawken that will one-shot an enemy like a CoD GL does. Your comparison does not fly.

A new computer sounds like the perfect time to download Hawken and prove your skill as a pilot.
And don't tell me you can't record because you don't have a program to do so. MSI Afterburner is free and works well. It's what I use.
Don't have software to edit it_ Windows Movie Maker is free.

[PlagueDoctor]

rdKNIGHTMAREZ, on November 29 2012 - 03:54 PM, said:

its not like replacing the pawns in chess..

its like adding more pieces to the board, and making the board have more squares.

The player of chess is the same as in Hawken. The pieces are like the weapons. Have two different weapons at the same time allows you to do more plays, whereas if you have 1 weapon, you can do half the plays. Its not like adding squares to the board, its like taking them off.

[Necro]

So, I see a simple solution to your problem. You don't want to X2 primary weapons.

rdKNIGHTMAREZ, on November 29 2012 - 02:19 PM, said:

TOW LAUNCHER-TOW LAUNCHER-TOW LAUNCHER-TOW LAUNCHER-TOW LAUNCHER-TOW LAUNCHER-SHARPSHOOTERTOW LAUNCHER-TOW LAUNCHER-TOW LAUNCHER-TOW LAUNCHER-GRENAD LAUNCHER TOW LAUNCHER-TOW LAUNCHER-TOW LAUNCHER-TOW LAUNCHER-TOW LAUNCHER-

You want more secondary weapons and the ability to choose between them, That's what i'm reading from you because having X2 of the same weapons is exactly that. Two of the same thing. Take your complaint and multiply it by two and then change TOW to SMG/Mini-Flak. That's what your suggestion would make this game in my eyes.

It would be cool if every mech could choose between like 2 secondary weapons not just primary.

[Beemann]

The thing you're asking for is like asking to replace all three weapon slots in TF2 with rocket launchers
Asking to swap one slot for an equivalent weapon (IE what TF2 allows) is a completely different suggestion
You'd be swapping say... TOW for Hellfires, or for a large secondary HEAT cannon, or you could swap a bouncy GL for a sticky GL
What you don't have is a scout with 3 shotguns, or a sniper with the huntsman and the snipe rrifle