44 replies to this topic

[Gestankfaust]

Sythorian, on November 25 2012 - 06:26 AM, said:

To be completely honest.

I find the Rocketeer a little easy to beat.

Little needs to be said here...

Played...done...

[Timber_Wolf]

ReachH, on November 26 2012 - 01:15 PM, said:

Beemann, on November 26 2012 - 12:09 PM, said:

You're arguing that the rocketeer, in its current state, is fine
In your argument, you suggest that a rocketeer should be able to counter an A mech using seekers, and that it should also be able to escape easily from multiple attackers through the use of spam
If it can do that, why can't it just melt multiple A mechs_ If it's reasonable for it to consistently escape, and it SHOULD hard counter A mechs, then it should be fairly simple for it to just destroy A mechs in groups
And my point about the sharpshooter is as follows
I havent particularly noticed any hard counters one way or the other with the ss, but ASSUMING there is one, that hard counter can still fail in its ideal fighting scenario through player error
The only way that's happening with a Seeker Rocketeer is if the pilot has fallen unconscious or gone AFK
Between the lolstunlock currently on their homing rockets, the fact that all of their weapons are autoaimed and the fact that they don't have to take burst fire or anything else into consideration to deal max DPS is absurd. Cover use is universal, and indiscriminate, seekers get blocked the same as AR's, but the AR requires some repositioning or burst fire to achieve maximum DPS
And the AR doesn't remove your ability to see the second it hits you

I dunno why are you pinning all these 'SHOULD's on me buddy. I never said should, just that it can (based on my impressions - which is the point of this thread: non-whiny, non-QQ, reasonable impressions on the Rocketeer).

The term 'Hard Counter' is for trading card games and RPGs. There is literally no 'Hard Counter' in Hawken. Also the seekers have 0 stunlock effect. So I have no idea what you are imagining! Also I have no idea what you are talking about Assault Rifle and burst fire. Why would you want to use burst fire in a game that has no recoil_ You have a Heat mitigation ability as Assault ffs.

By the sound of it, you play Assault. In which case I think you just need to accept you will have a harder time dealing with Rocketeers! But what do I know, I've never bothered with mine.

I hope you won't be offended if I stop replying to you now.

Derp.
Basically one big reply to all the fuzzy bunny you've been spouting.

If rocketeers counter A class mechs, why do A class mechs have the easiest time dealing with them_  I can fight them better as a berserker than as an assault.

Instinctive dodging_  You're right, I should be able to dodge from the invisible rockets by sensing they're there, how silly of me.

You're basing these balance decisions over TDM or DM_  What.  Just, what.  The two least competitive game-modes make you think the rocketeer is balanced_

Sharpshooters don't have a problem with them_  Oh gee, I wonder if it's because the sharpshooter tends to hang out at the back and have plenty of time to dodge and has more trouble with faster, CQC mechs that it can't run from give the sharpshooter trouble.  B class have nothing going for them to fight off a rocketeer, except the sharpshooter who can stay away.  No mech should be this hard to 1v1.  When you're fighting a C class who's pilot is flying in the air looking down and spamming at you (read: probably not a very good pilot) and you come out of it (assuming you win) and barely survive, something's wrong.  Any class who decides to float around in the air should be dead meat, unless they don't have to aim.  Average DPS on a gun that aims for you and is good at any range is plain stupid.

You clearly have no idea what balance actually is.  Good day to you, sir.

[ReachH]

:/

People so mad.

Suppose I am fighting a SS:
Long range bad for me -> close distance -> engage

Now suppose I am fighting a Rocketeer:
Close range bad for me -> increase distance -> engage

All otherthings being equal of course.

Anyways, ignoring all the 'I can't beat rocketeer CQB stuff', and having talked with, and played against, people who actually play rocketeer, its now pretty obvious the Rocketeer has a lot of trouble in areas with lots of cover. The seeker travels so slowly, that the rocketeer can literally be poked to death by HEAT, slugs etc. at range (and using cover of course).

I still maintain it fills a crucial role in team games of screening out the class As from abusing a team, thus opening the game up for other classes. If anything the seeker missiles need a projectile speed increase (will not affect potential damage, just make it more effective). Again, I'm not suggesting anything permanent and definitive, but it definitely should be played with, part of the small tweaks to a weapon that is conceptually sound. Note conceptually sound does not mean balanced yet. I remain open to the possibility that this change will make it so any team with a rocketeer cannot be touched by class As and so breaks the game. But somewhere there could be balance, so relax.

Semi-related side note, there was video posted of how broken siege mode is, featuring coordinated teams of good players. And from what I  remember, the majority of them were Class-A. So... all I am saying is if devs envision the high-end meta to be dominated by those few mechs and a few SS here and there, then by all means that is the name of the game. But if you envisioned a more rounded, diverse line up, then I strongly encourage you to keep tweaking the Rocketeer and other C-class mechs.

From my own experience, a SS+Rocketeer combo can form the core anchor of a team, freeing up our own Class-As to not worry about keeping good positions, and to flank/be more aggressive. On the offensive, it seems the SS pins other mechs, while the rocketeer can close or lend its massive damage vs bigger targets. Its a great example of the sum being bigger than the parts, and makes a team game fun. It is no longer about which team has the most class-A ace pilots who get the most kills and least deaths and carry the team. Again I speak from extensive TDM experience and this may not be the case in other cooperative game modes. Also I know pubs are not the best place to speak from, but its a start.

As I have said, people who fixate on 1v1 are forgetting what makes Hawken fun in the first place.

[Maikeru]

It may be because I play an assault mech, but I can tear those things up no problem. Their missles are easy to dodge. Scouts are what get me every time.

[AsianJoyKiller]

ReachH, on November 28 2012 - 03:52 AM, said:

Semi-related side note, there was video posted of how broken siege mode is, featuring coordinated teams of good players. And from what I  remember, the majority of them were Class-A. So... all I am saying is if devs envision the high-end meta to be dominated by those few mechs and a few SS here and there, then by all means that is the name of the game. But if you envisioned a more rounded, diverse line up, then I strongly encourage you to keep tweaking the Rocketeer and other C-class mechs.

To address that, we were using HEAT/TOW Scouts because we wanted to see just how fast we could damage the enemy ship, and they're currently the best DPS against a battleship. A single HEAT/TOW dedicated to damaging the battleship is really all that's needed, everyone else could run other weight classes, and as long as they point their guns upwards whenever they can, there's no worries about being able to take down the battleship.
Having A-class mechs was merely an experiment, not a necessity.