144 replies to this topic

[Gagzila]

"More is better.." is a scapegoat excuse. Another saying more apt I think is "if it ain't broke, don't fix it"

And you'll never be able to putt if your swing can't land you on the green

Cheers,

Gagzila

[rdKNIGHTMAREZ]

my grandad was a ww2 vet with a military cross. i think i like his advice more XD

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"More is better.." is a scapegoat excuse

tighter controls are better. Thats just a fact. Easy to pick up and play - difficult to master.

Edited by rdKNIGHTMAREZ, November 29 2012 - 08:53 PM.

[Gagzila]

rdKNIGHTMAREZ, on November 29 2012 - 08:52 PM, said:

my grandad was a ww2 vet with a military cross. i think i like his advice more XD

How does that relate to golf and further then to Hawken_

Going with the "more is better theory", would having 10 joysticks to control every movement aspect of your mech make it better_ No. There is efficiency and accurateness in simplicity, adding more controls does not automatically make the game "better". Having more options does not necessarily make the game "better", it just slows down the process of making choices as there are more elements to the equation which would more than likely equal death in the fast paced combat Hawken delivers...you might have time in MWO, Hawken needs to be quick and efficient to survive.

There has to be some quantified purpose behind each mechanic, I cannot see what great purpose your idea grants other than choice which isn't necessary when all your end goal is to turn about face and boost away.

Cheers,

Gagzila

[rdKNIGHTMAREZ]

SHIFT S mouseLEFT 1 pixel


PZEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEUUUUUUUUUUUUU MY MECH TURNS LFET 180

SHIFT S mouse RIGHT 1 pixel

PZZZZEEEEEEUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU MY MECH TURNS RIGHT 180

....sorry you were saying something about 1000 joysticks_

No mate that would be silly XD

Edited by rdKNIGHTMAREZ, November 29 2012 - 09:07 PM.

[Gagzila]

rdKNIGHTMAREZ, on November 29 2012 - 09:07 PM, said:

SHIFT S mouseLEFT 1 pixel


PZEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEUUUUUUUUUUUUU MY MECH TURNS LFET 180

SHIFT S mouse RIGHT 1 pixel

PZZZZEEEEEEUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU MY MECH TURNS RIGHT 180

....sorry you were saying something about 1000 joysticks_

No mate that would be silly XD

I was debating your belief that "more is always better"

In regards to the OP suggestion, it's an insignificant and pointless change as far as I can see.

Cheers,

Gagzila

[G4M5T3R]

There is no difference, and it's quicker to just shift+s. In a fast paced FPS such as Hawken this would only complicate things and slow down executing the 180 maneuver.

[defekt]

Wouldn't make any difference at all to me which direction my mech rotated because I only see 2 frames (sometimes 3) every time I use it as it is now.

My Typical Frame Timeline:-
<Me sends 180 spin command>
Frame 1: looking forward.
Frame 2: looking t'other way.

[Sicarius_X]

I agree it would be cool and while I actually like the idea itself. It comes down to map awareness more so then that glimpse of information anyway. I agree that it wouldn't break the game, in-fact in most terms you're right more control makes for a better game. I just dislike the idea because it wouldn't change anything then the direction you spin. The glimpse of the battlefield wouldn't offer enough information to warrant the change. Just my thoughts.

[rdKNIGHTMAREZ]

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There is no difference,

ther is a difference, its small but its there

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and it's quicker to just shift+s.

it isn't quicker in anyway way to do that. most people are moving the mouse around a tiny bit every second without noticing anyway.

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In a fast paced FPS such as Hawken this would only complicate things and slow down executing the 180 maneuver.

in a fast paced fps every split second matters. this is a simple improvement and it doesn't slow down execution in anyway way.

I expected these kind of comments, its the kind of thing only very very good pilots would notice. my improvement doesn't negatively effect players that wouldn't notice anyway, but it it is the kind of difference that helps make the game better.

[EMEUTIER]

It seems like a waste to implement such a petty 'feature' with basically no improvement to the gameplay.

The speed at which you turn 180 is so fast that nobody could gain any useful battlefield data from such a quick glimpse.

rdKNIGHTMAREZ, on November 29 2012 - 05:25 PM, said:

...to say otherwise is absurd.

[Subdivision]

rdKNIGHTMAREZ, on November 30 2012 - 07:10 AM, said:

I expected these kind of comments, its the kind of thing only very very good pilots would notice. my improvement doesn't negatively effect players that wouldn't notice anyway, but it it is the kind of difference that helps make the game better.

Right so nobody commenting here is a good pilot_ I know for a fact plenty of the pilots here are perfectly capable and more than qualified to comment on your suggestion. Word of warning, don't make things personal about how good or bad people are. It will rapidly diminish into meaningless bickering, about stuff unrelated to the OP nor produce constructive feedback. I don't mind you arguing for your opinion, everyone is entitled to one after all. I don't agree on commenting on a players ability, not even your own without sufficient evidence. As far as I can tell you could be the best player or the worst player, so I don't let those factors influence my interpretations until I have all the facts. If you can provide evidence of your top level play, please do so, I'd love to see it.

First, I think everyone here can clearly see the what you intend, the diagram wasn't necessary. However, I don't think anyone sees any reason to add it to the game. The benefit is incredibly minimal if at all existent. If you realise you need to turn and run, you should already know what you are dealing with. It's a matter of situational awareness that comes from understanding the map and good use of the radar and information from team mates. Sure turning one way over the other may be preferable but in a minuscule amount of circumstances.

Second, you have given two reason why this is good in your mind. 1. In certain circumstances, it is preferable to turn one way over the other. This is true but the amount of circumstances encompassing this benefit is incredibly tiny. 2. More controls are better. Well you have argued this too but I do not agree (quality over quantity!). Nor do I feel you grasp how much work in implementing it into the game would be required. Sure adding a mouse movement to the control is pretty nifty but that's not what you do with the mouse in an fps. You use it to look around, orientate yourself and aim. The 180' turn is movement manoeuvre and not for looking around you quickly. The nature of the game's aesthetic means it is near impossible to distinguish mechs from the surroundings when moving fast. They will not pop up in red boxes for you to easily see in the time it takes to turn.

Clearly, you are very strong willed and stubborn. That's not intended in an insulting manner, I mean it in a good way. But I hope you can understand why people are disagreeing with you on this matter and not that they might not be as super gosu as you at the game. The forum is for constructive feedback and criticism so everyone can voice their opinion on these matters. Just so happens people don't agree on this with you which is fair enough. Understand the Hawken team is tiny and adding things like this to their workload is unnecessary and futile for the benefit of the game as there are much larger priorities right now. Admittedly, it wouldn't have a negative impact minus adding to the inputs required by a player which is an impact, just fairly negligible, just like the the positive impact of your suggestion.

Oh and '1 pixel' isn't a measure of how much you move a mouse. I would like to finish by adding a scenario concerning me about the suggested mechanic for this. In a close quarters fight as c-class brawler I'm often getting run past or around by people. I love that I can instantly swing around and hit them faster than they can dodge. To do this I have to be using my mouse to hold my aim on the target, I can't do this if I have to be controlling my movement with it at the same time. Sure I can swing one way if they go one way or vice versa but I can't shoot when turning, nor can I aim. The pace of the fight is normally enough for me already and I enjoy having my focus and concentration rewarded in a closely fought one on one battle. If I start twitching my mouse one way to swing and have to then throw my cross-hairs the other way, one its going to annoy me, tremendously and two, it has a great chance of giving me a sore wrist.

Edited by Subdivision, November 30 2012 - 07:50 AM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

You, or at least most people, will not be able to actually derive any sort of useful information from a .5 second 180 turn. If you're on higher graphical settings, motion blur can completely obscure things, and even on the lowest settings, it's highly unlikely that you pick anything out that isn't within a few dozen meters of your mech.

[rdKNIGHTMAREZ]

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First, I think everyone here can clearly see the what you intend, However, I don't think anyone sees any reason to add it to the game.

i havn't read a single thing in this thread about why it shouldn't be implemented.
Given a choice between the current system, and slight improvement. The improvement wins every time.

You acknowledge unlike the others that the improvement is there, although it is small.

however a key thought is....what have you lost_

well by making this change you don't lose anything, but do improve the game.
.'. im right, and the improvement should be made.

its not stuborn , its just clear and logical, precise and paying attention to detail.

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f I start twitching my mouse one way to swing and have to then throw my cross-hairs the other way, one its going to annoy me, tremendously and two, it has a great chance of giving me a sore wrist.

players 99% of the time are moving the mouse one way or the other when they spin as they try to get a bead on either their target, or the path they want to run too.

[Subdivision]

rdKNIGHTMAREZ, on November 30 2012 - 07:53 AM, said:

i havn't read a single thing in this thread about why it shouldn't be implemented.

Well I made some clear points in my own single post, elaborating on a couple points people made before, I thinkk you might need to carefully re-read this thread.

rdKNIGHTMAREZ, on November 30 2012 - 07:53 AM, said:

.'. im right, and the improvement should be made.

This is why this discussion is meaningless and pointless other than for the dev's to realise you aren't agreed with.

[rdKNIGHTMAREZ]

making a point like '' it will be slower'' Is missing the mark when the truth is , it wouldn't be slower,  just more fluid at better.

i don't feel the need to validate people when they fail.

[Subdivision]

rdKNIGHTMAREZ, on November 30 2012 - 08:08 AM, said:

making a point like '' it will be slower'' Is missing the mark when the truth is , it wouldn't be slower,  just more fluid at better.

I didn't say that. Again, please read. And again, your opinion, not fact.

[rdKNIGHTMAREZ]

it is fact because we are talking about the way in which an robot is controlled by a mouse and keyboard, measurable solid things.

for example '' it would be slower'..

...thats a statement about space and time...which is factually incorrect.

[Subdivision]

rdKNIGHTMAREZ, on November 30 2012 - 08:51 AM, said:

it is fact because we are talking about the way in which an robot is controlled by a mouse and keyboard, measurable solid things.

No, an in game entity controlled by a mouse and keyboard. If you are talking about the movement shown in game, sure it might be more fluid to watch it turn either way and hold its momentum.

rdKNIGHTMAREZ, on November 30 2012 - 08:51 AM, said:

for example '' it would be slower'..

...thats a statement about space and time...which is factually incorrect.

Again, I didn't say that. Again, please read what I have said. If you are now arguing a point made by someone else, I apologise but I haven't read that point made anywhere in this thread and don't see why you are arguing how fast or slow it would be...

[rdKNIGHTMAREZ]

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Again, I didn't say that. Again, please read what I have said.

fair play but i wasn't targeting you when i said it won't be slower.

Edited by rdKNIGHTMAREZ, November 30 2012 - 09:27 AM.

[AsianJoyKiller]

rdKNIGHTMAREZ, I want you to perform a little test for me to prove that you could actually make use of this feature.

In the following video, there are 5 destrucible vehicles (the little buses and trucks that can be blown up) and a deployable turret.
I want you to point out the turret and at least 2-3 of the vehicles from left to right. The vehicles directly in front of me at the start do not count.
To avoid confusion Left is the direction I'm facing after I spin. Right is the direction I'm facing before I spin.

http://youtu.be/QEKX7wUv72M

Edited by AsianJoyKiller, November 30 2012 - 11:16 AM.