288 replies to this topic

[Mech Mechanic]

Ashfire908 said:

The only thing I can bring myself to write in response right now that isn't a 10 page rant at your idiocy is that SKU does not mean what you think it means.

ROFL, the little console peasant discovered how to use the keyboard for his bitch fits_ How cute....

Ashfire908 said:

It's the ID given to a product that's going to be sold. The latest SKU for either console would be at most as old as the last revision of the console.

Sorry son, but current consoles are incredibly old. It's awkward to throw in a great game for those old hardware. If you are a cheap boy, go get a good job, earn some quid and invest on a good set up.

[Mech Mechanic]

Varaka said:

@Mech why should us console players have to wait for this amazing looking game while you don't give me one good reason why.

Because the motherfucking reward is an amazing game on the next generation consoles, a better reputation for Adhesive games, investments for further projects by Adhesive games and a great game for years to come making justice to mech games.

[Mech Mechanic]

Naraklok said:

Mech Mechanic said:

Seriously the current consoles can FUCK OFF. We had enough of that shit already.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Thank you.

The PS3 and the old MUSEUM BOX 360 can seriously FUCK OFF. Those old hardware ruined many great games.

[Ashfire908]

Mech Mechanic said:

Ashfire908 said:

The only thing I can bring myself to write in response right now that isn't a 10 page rant at your idiocy is that SKU does not mean what you think it means.

ROFL, the little console peasant is throwing a bitch fit_ How cute....

Throwing a 'bitch fit' is all you ever seem to do. WAAAAAAAAAH! PC games are all ports and consoles get all the attention! You want a tissue_

Mech Mechanic said:

Ashfire908 said:

It's the ID given to a product that's going to be sold. The latest SKU for either console would be at most as old as the last revision of the console.

Sorry son, but current consoles are incredibly old. It's awkward to throw in a great game for those old hardware. If you are a cheap boy, go get a good job, earn some quid and invest on a good set up.

Sorry dude, but you were still wrong about SKUs, which was my point. I didn't say the hardware wasn't old tech, I was saying that you misused the term 'SKU'.

Mech Mechanic said:

Varaka said:

@Mech why should us console players have to wait for this amazing looking game while you don't give me one good reason why.

Because the motherfucking reward is an amazing game on the next generation consoles, a better reputation for Adhesive games, investments for further projects by Adhesive games and a great game for years to come making justice to mech games.

It's gonna be an amazing game regardless of the platform, how the hell does that give Adhesive Games a better reputation, investors care about how much money games make and avoiding consoles for years before creating a next-gen port does not say "make lots of money", and people will enjoy this game for years regardless of what platform it's on.

Ashfire908 said:

Ignoring the (heavily repeated and reworded) arguments that Mech uses...

Mech Mechanic said:

Naraklok said:

Mech Mechanic said:

Seriously the current consoles can FUCK OFF. We had enough of that shit already.

I couldn't have said it better myself.

Thank you.

The PS3 and the old MUSEUM BOX 360 can seriously FUCK OFF. Those old hardware ruined many great games.

[lavalamp1138]

Guys, guys, let's keep this discussion respectful. We don't mind people getting into somewhat heated debates, but comments should be targeted at the argument and not the individual. Thanks.

[Mech Mechanic]

Ashfire908 said:

ROFL, the little console peasant is throwing a bitch fit_ How cute....

Throwing a 'bitch fit' is all you ever seem to do. WAAAAAAAAAH! PC games are all ports and consoles get all the attention! You want a tissue_

Bring it.

I have the freedom to bitch because this generation made horrid mistakes and sacrificed a lot. Yes, I tend to go hard on the consoles because developers treats them as universal machines. PC players and console players are two different communities with different traditions.

Ashfire908 said:

Sorry dude, but you were still wrong about SKUs, which was my point. I didn't say the hardware wasn't old tech, I was saying that you misused the term 'SKU'.

The term stuck keeping unit refers to the code in each product. I know exactly what it means. I used it without any rigor.

Ashfire908 said:

It's gonna be an amazing game regardless of the platform

Sorry ashfire but that is just a crock of shit. I have to rule you out on that one. For example take a look at Crysis I and Crysis II.

Ashfire908 said:

how the hell does that give Adhesive Games a better reputation, investors care about how much money games make and avoiding consoles for years before creating a next-gen port does not say "make lots of money"

Thanks to those fuckholes, the dumbass investors of course, we are getting gimped games. These jackasses don't care for game quality. All they see is money printing. The designer and developer loose control of the product putting short term rewards on it instead of a long term
return. However I don't blame those fucking dolts. They don't have a brain outside the ability of making money.

With all honesty investors can fuck off if they don't know how run the business. Adhesive games proved to be a reliable money printing machine with their first title. We need to see a compromised investor who is patient and sensible with the gaming industry. If they get Kotick, that means "another one bites the dust".

[Mech Mechanic]

lavalamp1138 said:

Guys, guys, let's keep this discussion respectful. We don't mind people getting into somewhat heated debates, but comments should be targeted at the argument and not the individual. Thanks.

Easy there tiger, we know how to slap each other....

Nothing personal. It's just the way I am and the way he is without any sort of hypocrisy....


But I'm serious with this: I don't have hairs in my tongue. If your game sucks, I'm going to state it without any remorse. If your game delivers, I'll be the first thanking your great effort. In life you have to be straight, transparent and blunt.

Edit:

I prefer no love at all for the xbox and the PS3. The reason is quite simple. The team will be focused on getting all together the game for PC. PC will be the leading platform allowing players to customize their experience with DX 11, Tessellation among other features. Since this is an Unreal 3 designed levels, the mod community, including me, we can alter and add things we like to see on the levels and game. Tweak the jet packs for more duration, add  few details and continue on the mech tradition.

Once the game goes through testing on PC then if possible bring them to the next generation of consoles. They are not far away. In one or two years will be handling a ton of money on the 720 and PS4.

[BigFriedBomb]

I don't see the problem with "porting" to a current console is.  Underneath all the mech goodness is an almost basic FPS developed in UDK 3.  Last I saw there were plenty of those on the PS3, the PC, and the XBox 360.

Quote

Sorry son, but current consoles are incredibly old

   Old hardware that's still being used by millions and is already supported by the software being used to develop the game in the first place.  Seems like the biggest obstacle would be reconfiguring the controls to fit on the joypad,(which in all honesty shouldn't be that hard to get right.  From what I've seen from the forums, the developers of these games are paying attention to the details, I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt).

   I may be wrong Mech Mechanic, but it seems like your biggest point is because ports in the past were done poorly, they shouldn't try to do it better.  If were going to follow that logic, I should have dropped out of college the very minute I made a less than stellar grade on an assignment, or stopped learning to bake bread because my first batch was a gooey, yeasty mess.  

  Also, your argument on waiting till the next consoles arrive to port the game depends on the game being successful while it's only available on PCs.  I'm not saying it's impossible, but by limiting the size of the potential buyer base, your limiting the probability of the game succeeding.  The best analogy I can think of at the moment is entering the Indie 500 with a car that has the best engine, brakes, and other innards money can buy, but having a chassis that's as square as a toaster.  Sure it's possible you could outgun the other racers, but with that boxy body, you're fighting the wind, making winning a lot harder than it needs to be.

Oh, and you may have a right to be rude, but it's certainly not going to help you in any argument.  

Nothing personal.

[Mech Mechanic]

BombaFrita said:

   Old hardware that's still being used by millions and is already supported by the software being used to develop the game in the first place.

Doesn't make it good. Games are good because there's a good interest on making it the best game possible.

BombaFrita said:

Also, your argument on waiting till the next consoles arrive to port the game depends on the game being successful while it's only available on PCs.

The best testing ground for a great idea.  

BombaFrita said:

I'm not saying it's impossible, but by limiting the size of the potential buyer base, your limiting the probability of the game succeeding.

The game will succeed despite the initial basis. I prefer a great game on PC than a mediocre multi platform piece of shit thanks to the fucking consoles.  

Sorry I get agitated when someone makes me think on them. I can't see this game on a console, sorry.

[BigFriedBomb]

Quote

Doesn't make it good. Games are good because there's a good interest on making it the best game possible.

Which it seems pretty obvious that the team is already trying to do.  It's the mechanics that make a good game, not necessarily the base console(I'm confident you already know that, but I am trying to reinforce my point).

Quote

The best testing ground for a great idea.

Quote

The game will succeed despite the initial basis. I prefer a great game on PC than a mediocre multi platform piece of shit thanks to the fucking consoles.

    I'm about as exited for this game as anyone else, but besides mech combat, I don't see much else that's going to separate this game from any other multi-player FPS on the market.  The market is heavily saturated with shooters, and I believe that to be a disadvantage for this game. If this game is going to succeed, it's going to need  every advantage it can take, and I believe making the game accessible to the largest possible consumer base would be a great advantage.

  Also, I fail to see what's to be lost in the translation.  The only thing I can see being different with console versions is a rewired control (which I can't see them messing up unless some tries to put it on the Wii) and perhaps how online interaction is handled, it's not like when the game's going to magically turn into a first-person rainbow clown shooter the minute they decide to make the game available on the Playstation Network.

[Mech Mechanic]

BombaFrita said:

   The market is heavily saturated with shooters, and I believe that to be a disadvantage for this game.

No other game plays like this one. In a span of ten or more years we haven't seen a unique game of mechs with that sense of speed, flying and detailed back grounds. No one can critique it as a coated formula of the Unreal engine 3. The game itself stands out in every aspect. It proved to be solid on the game play.

BombaFrita said:

If this game is going to succeed, it's going to need  every advantage it can take, and I believe making the game accessible to the largest possible consumer base would be a great advantage.

Bullshit.

And you know it...I don't need to explain why.

BombaFrita said:

Also, I fail to see what's to be lost in the translation.

Direct 11.
Full Screen Anti Aliasing.
SSAO.
Tessellation.
Smooth Frame 60 rate at 1080p.
Precision aiming with mouse.
Key Board commands and chatting.
Adjustable Graphics options for different set ups.
Dedicated servers.
Destructible environments.
Depth of field, motion blur.
PhisX support.
Re localization of all key commands for the controls.
Level designs by the community, ENB and graphic up scalling.
Reaction time with key board and mouse is better than Joystick for fps games.

among other things....

Yes we loose a lot on that degradation. A console port is an automatic downgrade by definition.

[BigFriedBomb]

Quote

Bullshit.

And you know it...I don't need to explain why.

No I don't.  I fail to see how more potential customers=more potential money=less chance of making a profit.  Please, enlighten me.

[Ashfire908]

Mech Mechanic said:

BombaFrita said:

The market is heavily saturated with shooters, and I believe that to be a disadvantage for this game.

No other game plays like this one. In a span of ten or more years we haven't seen a unique game of mechs with that sense of speed, flying and detailed back grounds. No one can critique it as a coated formula of the Unreal engine 3. The game itself stands out in every aspect. It proved to be solid on the game play.

Um, I don't know what game you have been looking at. I'm excited as can be for Hawken, but you need to adjust your expectations. The only reason this game is standing out is because it's a mech game and has less competition than it otherwise would have. No one here's played it yet (minus the devs of course), so I don't think we can declare it the best game evar for the last 10 years, even in the mech genre.

Mech Mechanic said:

BombaFrita said:

Also, I fail to see what's to be lost in the translation.

Direct 11.
Full Screen Anti Aliasing.
SSAO.
Tessellation.
Smooth Frame 60 rate at 1080p.
Precision aiming with mouse.
Key Board commands and chatting.
Adjustable Graphics options for different set ups.
Dedicated servers.
Destructible environments.
Depth of field, motion blur.
PhisX support.
Re localization of all key commands for the controls.
Level designs by the community, ENB and graphic up scalling.
Reaction time with key board and mouse is better than Joystick for fps games.

among other things....

Yes we loose a lot on that degradation. A console port is an automatic downgrade by definition.

...What_ I be confused. I don't know if you are talking about a direct console-to-PC port or what's lost when you make a game for a console vs a PC. If it's the former, then that implies zero faith on the part of Adhesive Games being able to create both a proper PC and console game (even though currently they are working on the game for PC right now), and the majority of the listed items would be due to a very lazy job porting (with others being already supported on consoles to begin with).

I thinking you might have been talking about the former, considering some of the complaints, but if you were talking about the latter:

Direct 11 - They aren't even using DX11 right now, last I heard they were using DX10.
Full Screen Anti Aliasing - Well yes, I give you this, while you technically could do FSAA on a console, they don't have the power to actually make use of it.
SSAO - Actually, there are consoles games that do have this (according to Wikipedia)
Tessellation - Some console games do use tessellation I think, to what degree I don't know, I'm studying programming in school, not computer graphics.
Smooth Frame 60 rate at 1080p - Like AA, yes, a solid 1080p with 60fps is hard, but it's not like if we don't achieve 60fps the game's unplayable...
Precision aiming with mouse - It's a given that if you are on a console you use a controller instead of a mouse
Key Board commands and chatting - Technically possible, but again, this is a console, controllers and headsets, not mice and keyboards
Adjustable Graphics options for different set ups - Irrelevant on a console, the hardware is all the same.
Dedicated servers - I've seen a few console games with the option to run as a dedicated server, but yeah, they usually don't. IMO this is not make or break though.
Destructible environments - The devs have expressed concern that they just don't have the resources to create a destructible environment in the first place
Depth of field, motion blur - I'll assume you mean settings for Depth of field and motion blur (since all consoles have that stuff), which wouldn't go amiss.
PhisX support - There is support for PhysX on consoles.
Re localization of all key commands for the controls - Kinda pointless with a controller
Level designs by the community, ENB and graphic up scalling - Some console games do support custom maps (not as full out with a computer, but still allowing a great level of customization), I honestly don't know what "ENB" is, and what sort of upscaling are we talking about here_
Reaction time with key board and mouse is better than Joystick for fps games - See comments on mice and keyboards

So out of those, only 3-4 are actually issues with consoles (I'm ignoring the controller hating), and only FSAA and 1080p 60fps really equate to anything...

[The_Silencer]

Ashfire908 said:

...What_ I be confused. I don't know if you are talking about a direct console-to-PC port or what's lost when you make a game for a console vs a PC. If it's the former, then that implies zero faith on the part of Adhesive Games being able to create both a proper PC and console game (even though currently they are working on the game for PC right now), and the majority of the listed items would be due to a very lazy job porting (with others being already supported on consoles to begin with).

I thinking you might have been talking about the former, considering some of the complaints, but if you were talking about the latter:

Direct 11 - They aren't even using DX11 right now, last I heard they were using DX10.
Full Screen Anti Aliasing - Well yes, I give you this, while you technically could do FSAA on a console, they don't have the power to actually make use of it.
SSAO - Actually, there are consoles games that do have this (according to Wikipedia)
Tessellation - Some console games do use tessellation I think, to what degree I don't know, I'm studying programming in school, not computer graphics.
Smooth Frame 60 rate at 1080p - Like AA, yes, a solid 1080p with 60fps is hard, but it's not like if we don't achieve 60fps the game's unplayable...
Precision aiming with mouse - It's a given that if you are on a console you use a controller instead of a mouse
Key Board commands and chatting - Technically possible, but again, this is a console, controllers and headsets, not mice and keyboards
Adjustable Graphics options for different set ups - Irrelevant on a console, the hardware is all the same.
Dedicated servers - I've seen a few console games with the option to run as a dedicated server, but yeah, they usually don't. IMO this is not make or break though.
Destructible environments - The devs have expressed concern that they just don't have the resources to create a destructible environment in the first place
Depth of field, motion blur - What consoles are you thinking of_ I'm pretty sure console games have depth of field and motion blur.
PhisX support - There is support for PhysX on consoles.
Re localization of all key commands for the controls - Kinda pointless with a controller
Level designs by the community, ENB and graphic up scalling - Some console games do support custom maps (not as full out with a computer, but still allowing a great level of customization), I honestly don't know what "ENB" is, and what sort of upscaling are we talking about here_
Reaction time with key board and mouse is better than Joystick for fps games - See comments on mice and keyboards

So out of those, only 3-4 are actually issues with consoles (I'm ignoring the controller hating), and only FSAA and 1080p 60fps really equate to anything...

IMHO, a brief opinion on this would be:

DX9 compatible and then whatever else you want...
Full screen = That's a must. AA = it just makes frames to look blurry, so whatever you want, IMHO... but under settings, please.
...
Smooth framerate_. Always, of course. As many as possible!.
Precision Aiming_. Of course ++. PC end-user here!.
Graphics settings = How not!. A must have!.
Dedicated servers = That would be cool, indeed. Games variety. A must have again, IMHO.
Destructible envs = If possible, under settings; please. Would be cool, once more though.
Depth of field = Settings again, not every GPU likes this..
Physx = Again, settings here.
Mapping controls = A amust!.
...

Just my 2 cents on this

[Ashfire908]

The_Silencer said:

IMHO, a brief opinion on this would be:

DX9 compatible and then whatever else you want...
Full screen = That's a must. AA = it just makes frames to look blurry, so whatever you want, IMHO... but under settings, please.
...
Smooth framerate_. Always, of course. As many as possible!.
Precision Aiming_. Of course ++. PC end-user here!.
Graphics settings = How not!. A must have!.
Dedicated servers = That would be cool, indeed. Games variety. A must have again, IMHO.
Destructible envs = If possible, under settings; please. Would be cool, once more though.
Depth of field = Settings again, not every GPU likes this..
Physx = Again, settings here.
Mapping controls = A amust!.
...

Just my 2 cents on this

Oh, well yes, the PC should have settings for all that stuff (except the destructible environment, since it has a direct impact on gameplay), and obviously the PC should support mouse and keyboard. The PC should get a full blown version that's more than just a port, with everything that's come to be expected in a game.

[Mech Mechanic]

BombaFrita said:

No I don't.  I fail to see how more potential customers=more potential money=less chance of making a profit.  Please, enlighten me.

I'm not the peregrine with the intention to be your teacher or someone with the intention to make you see the light at the end of the tunnel. You have to seek your answers elsewhere.

Do I care if I'm perceived as a duchebag or asshole because I piss on the consoles_ No, I do care for a great game and for that I simply expose my voice despite what you probably think. If asking for quality makes me a cunt, then be it, I can carry that zero and continue being one.

A team should focus on one version or one port. If the game is a success then it's very likely to see a success among console peasants. Second the new xbox will be released on 2013. So rushing on the old Museum Box 360 is not a good idea.

The question is on what console you put it in order to not sacrifice the game and save up the quality of the new IP.

[BigFriedBomb]

Quote

Do I care if I'm perceived as a duchebag or asshole because I piss on the consoles_ No, I do care for a great game and for that I simply expose my voice despite what you probably think. If asking for quality makes me a cunt, then be it, I can carry that zero and continue being one.

I haven't called you such, I'm simply trying to have as thoughtful a debate as I have the ability to create.  I'm only trying to call out your points that bother me, not your character.  I apologize if it seems like I'm attacking you.  I care about the quality of the game as well.  From the videos I've seen, this will be an excellent game.

Also, I wasn't suggesting that they develop the game for every console they plan to release the game on at the same time.  That's asking a bit much for one indie team.  However, I do think the team would be selling this game short if it wasn't made available for other gamers to enjoy after the main game was released.

[Mech Mechanic]

Your turn son...:3.

Ashfire908 said:

Um, I don't know what game you have been looking at. I'm excited as can be for Hawken, but you need to adjust your expectations. The only reason this game is standing out is because it's a mech game and has less competition than it otherwise would have. No one here's played it yet (minus the devs of course), so I don't think we can declare it the best game evar for the last 10 years, even in the mech genre.

I never tried to exaggerate the note on the success of it. What we have seen made many move their sights to this game. Is that a good symptom of success_ I say yes. This one stands out as a great game because it satisfy the needs of a community who is starving for a great mech game focusing on fast action and the sci fi environment. It doesn't fall on technical mounting of mechs or fall slow on the action either. It delivers on the things many of us wanted to see in a mech game. It brings the feel of Robotech (Macross), mech are not stylized like Gundam or Robotch. It doesn't turn exaggerated like transformers or go all geek on the world of mech. This makes the right balance on what people want to see.

Best game ever_ No of course but a great game, obviously. What we have seen bring us confidence to declare it as a solid project.

ashfire said:

...What_ I be confused. I don't know if you are talking about a direct console-to-PC port or what's lost when you make a game for a console vs a PC. If it's the former, then that implies zero faith on the part of Adhesive Games being able to create both a proper PC and console game (even though currently they are working on the game for PC right now), and the majority of the listed items would be due to a very lazy job porting (with others being already supported on consoles to begin with).

Enough of that crock of shit, Ashfire.

When you design a game for PC you have to make sacrifices porting on consoles. You have to go seven years into the past (360 museum box) and cut corners for a frame rate. When you work directly with a new API and Direct 11 you address better work flow, better optimization and better possibility of porting on the next generation of consoles. The 360 and PS3 are old, period. They are weak and they are not cutting edge anymore.

Adhesive game is a small team, they don't have endless resources for porting on consoles. Second, the plans should be heading directly to 2013 release and focus on a great game for the time being on PC. Adhesive team can't be that retarded bitching for all the shit they hear from investors about piracy. I think they are smarter than that. In all the consoles piracy is rampant moreover on the PS3 and the 360. However on the new set of consoles the piracy will be very small or none. On that time period you can sell your game on the new consoles and of course secure the dividends.

See_.....

Asfhire said:

I thinking you might have been talking about the former, considering some of the complaints, but if you were talking about the latter

Complaint, my ass.....

Direct 11 - They aren't even using DX11 right now, last I heard they were using DX10.

Answer:

Never said so. With new consoles you can use it, optimize and move the new technology on the consoles. DX 11 gives lots of benefits in addition to better graphics and tessellation.

Full Screen Anti Aliasing - Well yes, I give you this, while you technically could do FSAA on a console, they don't have the power to actually make use of it.

Answer:

Sorry but you can't do FSAA on consoles without an obvious crucifixion of frame rate and geometric detail.



SSAO - Actually, there are consoles games that do have this (according to Wikipedia)

Answer: At what sacrifice and with what stuttering problems_ Oh yes, shall we review the awful performance and stuttering of the Crytek engine and Crysis II_

Tessellation - Some console games do use tessellation I think, to what degree I don't know, I'm studying programming in school, not computer graphics.

Answer:

You should sue your academic program. They are stealing your money. It's a fraud. No console game uses tessellation.

ffs.

Smooth Frame 60 rate at 1080p - Like AA, yes, a solid 1080p with 60fps is hard, but it's not like if we don't achieve 60fps the game's unplayable...

Answer:

Not everybody is a console peasant. Those who invested on a good computer invest on a rock steady frame rate of 60 frames per second and 1080p. Once you taste it, downgrading it is way hard.

Precision aiming with mouse - It's a given that if you are on a console you use a controller instead of a mouse

Answer:

Why some consoles games supports keyboard and mouse_ Is that casualty_

Key Board commands and chatting - Technically possible, but again, this is a console, controllers and headsets, not mice and keyboards

Answer:

Key board commands and chatting is more fluent and natural on the PC.  

Adjustable Graphics options for different set ups - Irrelevant on a console, the hardware is all the same.

Answer:

Again, I don't need to downgrade my system to a stature of a console peasant. On PCs you have a variety of settings and scales while on consoles  you have the same old standard.

Dedicated servers - I've seen a few console games with the option to run as a dedicated server, but yeah, they usually don't. IMO this is not make or break though.

Answer:

But it makes a great difference. It distinguish clans, teams and specialization on the given game. It creates diversity.

Destructible environments - The devs have expressed concern that they just don't have the resources to create a destructible environment in the first place.

Answer:

But the community can implement it because the game is available for PC. It's an option you add or simply cut on PC. However on consoles you can't decide because consoles are weak and old.

Depth of field, motion blur - I'll assume you mean settings for Depth of field and motion blur (since all consoles have that stuff), which wouldn't go amiss.

Answer:

But the implementation of it has an impact on the geometry, frame rate and texture size among other things. On PC you don't have that constraint.


PhisX support - There is support for PhysX on consoles.

Answer:

Not at the level of complexity on PC.

Re localization of all key commands for the controls - Kinda pointless with a controller

Answer:

Fuck you.

Sorry, but I can't think on any other answer. Can't take you seriously on such argument.

Level designs by the community, ENB and graphic up scalling - Some console games do support custom maps (not as full out with a computer, but still allowing a great level of customization), I honestly don't know what "ENB" is, and what sort of upscaling are we talking about here_

Answer:

Use Google. It works.

Reaction time with key board and mouse is better than Joystick for fps games - See comments on mice and keyboards

Answer:

Game play is a key element on games of this nature.

[lavalamp1138]

Mech Mechanic said:

Direct 11 - They aren't even using DX11 right now, last I heard they were using DX10.

Answer:

Never said so.

Just so we're all on the same page, Hawken runs on DX10. Chris already mentioned this back in July.

[Ashfire908]

[quote name="Mech Mechanic"]I never tried to exaggerate the note on the success of it. What we have seen made many move their sights to this game. Is that a good symptom of success_ I say yes.[/quote]
No, that's hype. You can't be successful at creating a game before it's out.

[quote name="Mech Mechanic"][quote name="Ashfire908"]...What_ I be confused. I don't know if you are talking about a direct console-to-PC port or what's lost when you make a game for a console vs a PC. If it's the former, then that implies zero faith on the part of Adhesive Games being able to create both a proper PC and console game (even though currently they are working on the game for PC right now), and the majority of the listed items would be due to a very lazy job porting (with others being already supported on consoles to begin with).[/quote]

Enough of that crock of shit, Ashfire.[/quote]
Same to you buddy.

[quote name="Mech Mechanic"]When you design a game for PC you have to make sacrifices porting on consoles. You have to go seven years into the past (360 museum box) and cut corners for a frame rate. When you work directly with a new API and Direct 11 you address better work flow, better optimization and better possibility of porting on the next generation of consoles. The 360 and PS3 are old, period. They are weak and they are not cutting edge anymore.[/quote]
You don't need cutting edge technology to create a great game. Want an example_ MINECRAFT. The thing is the most graphically unimpressive game I've seen in a long time. But does it suck_ No, it's awesome. Yes, it's not on consoles, but my point is that you don't need cutting edge tech to make a good game.

Also, Hawken is not using DX11.

[quote name="Mech Mechanic"]Adhesive game is a small team, they don't have endless resources for porting on consoles.[/quote]
Yet they have the resources to put towards cutting edge graphics_ Last time I checked I think they have like one programmer and were using UDK off the shelf.

[quote name="Mech Mechanic"]Second, the plans should be heading directly to 2013 release and focus on a great game for the time being on PC. Adhesive team can't be that retarded bitching for all the shit they hear from investors about piracy. I think they are smarter than that. In all the consoles piracy is rampant moreover on the PS3 and the 360. However on the new set of consoles the piracy will be very small or none. On that time period you can sell your game on the new consoles and of course secure the dividends.[/quote]
Oh god that's funny... Really_ You are commenting on piracy issues on consoles_ PC piracy is much much MUCH worse than piracy on consoles. Consoles by their nature are closed systems and take more effort to play pirated games (ie flashing custom firmware) than on a PC where you go to some bittorrent tracker and download a cracked game.

I haven't heard stuff that ridiculous since watching hearings on SOPA. (Internets, how do they work_)

[quote name="Mech Mechanic"][quote name="Ashfire908"]I thinking you might have been talking about the former, considering some of the complaints, but if you were talking about the latter[/quote]

Complaint, my ass.....[/quote]
Complaint: an expression of discontent, regret, pain, censure, resentment, or grief; lament; faultfinding



[quote name="Mech Mechanic"][quote name="Ashfire908"]Direct 11 - They aren't even using DX11 right now, last I heard they were using DX10.[/quote]

Answer:

Never said so. With new consoles you can use it, optimize and move the new technology on the consoles. DX 11 gives lots of benefits in addition to better graphics and tessellation.[/quote]
[quote name="lavalamp1138":1m338w1f]Just so we're all on the same page, Hawken runs on DX10. Chris already mentioned this back in July.[/quote]

[quote name="Mech Mechanic"][quote name="Ashfire908"]Full Screen Anti Aliasing - Well yes, I give you this, while you technically could do FSAA on a console, they don't have the power to actually make use of it.[/quote]

Answer:

Sorry but you can't do FSAA on consoles without an obvious crucifixion of frame rate and geometric detail.[/quote]
...That's what I just said. Can't do it without sacrificing the rest of the graphics for it. You should slow down and read a bit closer.[/quote]

[quote name="Mech Mechanic"][quote name="Ashfire908"]SSAO - Actually, there are consoles games that do have this ([url=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Screen_Space_Ambient_Occlusion#Games_using_SSAO]according to Wikipedia[/url])[/quote]

Answer: At what sacrifice and with what stuttering problems_ Oh yes, shall we review the awful performance and stuttering of the Crytek engine and Crysis II_[/quote]
Somehow I doubt SSAO was the entire cause of any stuttering in any of the games that use it.

[quote name="Mech Mechanic"][quote name="Ashfire908"]Tessellation - Some console games do use tessellation I think, to what degree I don't know, I'm studying programming in school, not computer graphics.[/quote]

Answer:

You should sue your academic program. They are stealing your money. It's a fraud. No console game uses tessellation.[/quote]
Ah yes, fuck my college! They don't rant about the failing of consoles and how PCs are the master race! What a scam!

I didn't mention the game at the time because I was still fact checking (yes, I actually research stuff, shocking I know), but Banjo-Kazooie: Nuts & Bolts for the Xbox 360 does use it (for the water). Yes, random game that is not really one you'd cart out to showcase graphics, but it has it (I'd give a better example, but I'm not wading though tons of stuff to find every game that uses it).

[quote name="Mech Mechanic"][quote name="Ashfire908"]Smooth Frame 60 rate at 1080p - Like AA, yes, a solid 1080p with 60fps is hard, but it's not like if we don't achieve 60fps the game's unplayable...[/quote]

Answer:

Not everybody is a console peasant. Those who invested on a good computer invest on a rock steady frame rate of 60 frames per second and 1080p. Once you taste it, downgrading it is way hard.[/quote]
I read that as "Only retards can stand anything less than 1080p60". I made an argument a long time ago about going from a then-new 360 and a new game for it to Metroid Prime and not noticing the graphical downgrade stands here.

[quote name="Mech Mechanic"][quote name="Ashfire908"]Precision aiming with mouse - It's a given that if you are on a console you use a controller instead of a mouse[/quote]

Answer:

Why some consoles games supports keyboard and mouse_ Is that casualty_[/quote]
Cars have a steering wheel and motorcycles have handlebars. I don't see people saying that bikes should have steering wheels.

[quote name="Mech Mechanic"][quote name="Ashfire908"]Key Board commands and chatting - Technically possible, but again, this is a console, controllers and headsets, not mice and keyboards[/quote]

Answer:

Key board commands and chatting is more fluent and natural on the PC.[/quote]
As I said before, for this list I made, I was talking about a pc to console port. Of course a keyboard works better on a PC. I was talking about consoles though.

[quote name="Mech Mechanic"][quote name="Ashfire908"]Adjustable Graphics options for different set ups - Irrelevant on a console, the hardware is all the same.[/quote]

Answer:

Again, I don't need to downgrade my system to a stature of a console peasant. On PCs you have a variety of settings and scales while on consoles  you have the same old standard.[/quote]
Again, I was talking about pc to console ports.

[quote name="Mech Mechanic"][quote name="Ashfire908"]Dedicated servers - I've seen a few console games with the option to run as a dedicated server, but yeah, they usually don't. IMO this is not make or break though.[/quote]

Answer:

But it makes a great difference. It distinguish clans, teams and specialization on the given game. It creates diversity.[/quote]
Assuming the game uses server browsing rather than a matchmaking system (which IMO matchmaking systems are better because you don't have to sit there and find a match yourself, connecting to games at random and hoping it's a good one).

[quote name="Mech Mechanic"][quote name="Ashfire908"]Destructible environments - The devs have expressed concern that they just don't have the resources to create a destructible environment in the first place.[/quote]

Answer:

But the community can implement it because the game is available for PC. It's an option you add or simply cut on PC. However on consoles you can't decide because consoles are weak and old.[/quote]
Like your mom... Sorry but it was too perfect to pass up.

That would be quite a mod... However to me, a destructible environment would be a core gameplay feature and would mess with the balance created by the devs... But yes, 1+ for PCs, mods can be quite awesome (when it's not some tard making it so you can kill children or a nude patch).

[quote name="Mech Mechanic"][quote name="Ashfire908"]Depth of field, motion blur - I'll assume you mean settings for Depth of field and motion blur (since all consoles have that stuff), which wouldn't go amiss.[/quote]

Answer:

But the implementation of it has an impact on the geometry, frame rate and texture size among other things. On PC you don't have that constraint.[/quote]
PCs: They have infinite power! (Coming from a guy who has to turn down every setting when on a PC). It has an effect on overall performance depending on how it's done, yeah (not the geometry or texture size though, unless they cut those back to compensate for performance reasons). But choosing what systems to implement is part of optimizing. You don't use the most expensive method all the time when you have a system that looks 90% as good for 50% of the cost.

[quote name="Mech Mechanic"][quote name="Ashfire908"]PhisX support - There is support for PhysX on consoles.[/quote]

Answer:

Not at the level of complexity on PC.[/quote]
Assuming the game actually uses PhysX in the first place... Are you going to start listing every technology used in video games to find some used only on PC_ Yes PCs may have more advanced versions of PhysX, but really this is like getting a divorce because you wife hates that you snore.


[quote name="Mech Mechanic"][quote name="Ashfire908"]Re localization of all key commands for the controls - Kinda pointless with a controller[/quote]

Answer:

Fuck you.

Sorry, but I can't think on any other answer. Can't take you seriously on such argument.[/quote]
I on the other hand endeavor to use better arguments than insults. I assume you were talking about this for the PC, which as I mentioned before I wasn't talking about here. However, I would absolutely love to have remappable controls on consoles instead of the stupid control schemes. This isn't something limited by the platform however, it's more a developer preference, so it's not really relevant to a console as a platform discussion

[quote name="Mech Mechanic"][quote name="Ashfire908"]Level designs by the community, ENB and graphic up scalling - Some console games do support custom maps (not as full out with a computer, but still allowing a great level of customization), I honestly don't know what "ENB" is, and what sort of upscaling are we talking about here_[/quote]

Answer:

Use Google. It works.[/quote]
God forbid I don't know which of the possible meanings of ENB you were referencing (with no context). I had asked a PC gamer friend at the time (the only one who was on, timezones FTL) and he didn't know, and I was pressed for time so sorry I didn't know about some random graphics mod that some person made. (inb4 your friends are all retarded just like you are)

[quote name="Mech Mechanic"][quote name="Ashfire908"]Reaction time with key board and mouse is better than Joystick for fps games - See comments on mice and keyboards[/quote]

Answer:

Game play is a key element on games of this nature.[/quote]

Gameplay is a key element of every game. However not every game needs reaction times down to the millisecond... reminds me of my friend who plays Rock Band and complains about calibration changes of 5ms. (Before you comment on his skill level, he's in the top 25 worldwide for bass for RB3, so he's not crap) Back on topic, what little else I can pull from your vague comment is the general controller vs keyboard & mouse argument, to which my normal response is that at least I can precisely pick what speed I move at rather than stopped, walk, run, and sprint.

Also, I can tell when you run out of steam when responding to these because you stop writing actual responses and just use insults and generic no-thought responses.

Ball's back in your court.