108 replies to this topic

[SunshineSloth]

Playing as my lvl 9 SS I have no problem killing people even when I am at a disadvantage at close range. I don't always win but I do win more often. The disadvantage is honourable and rightly so.

[defekt]

madeskimo, on December 01 2012 - 08:10 PM, said:

same three players whole  match couldn't  even get  single kill with either  primary or  secondary  using  emp and mini gun drop. those who thing sharpshooter  has no problems with damage dodging  or  repairing  shooting  from distance they just  rush you no matter  what.

'Easy mode' Rocketeers vs 'Hard mode' Sharpie.  The Sharpie is now a fairly high skill machine that needs to mesh in neatly with a co-ordinated team (the difficulty comes not in the gun play but in being canny about how you play), as has been mentioned above.  I also agree that the damage nerf was too severe on the Sharpie but the recent re-buff has brought the thing close to an equilibrium.  The Rocketeer player doesn't need to aim or worry about heat; a trained monkey could do well with a Rocketeer against less experienced players.  I'd be inclined not to blame the mechanics of the Sharpie in this instance.

[SamSlade]

Put simply the Sharpshooter is borked... the RNG scatter, woeful muzzle velocity and requirement that you don't move at all really means the Sharpshooter is now a glorified turret.  You can make all the famboy-ish arguments you like about 'skill' and 'L2P' but the simple fact is they have screwed the weapon balance big time.

You want an accurate long range support mech_ Get a Rocketeer.

[Darkbolt]

agreed this game is going the way of "black prophecy" strait into the dirt. i wont play this cb3 junk i hope they do something for open beta that makes this game YA KNOW PLAYABLE!! if they continue to listen to the fools and their are many just by looking at this thread i see the prevailing attitude against the SS are their opponents. Where in by their motives are to increase their score and not the playability of the game its self.

And we have seen the direct result of this by over HALF of the community not even playing CB3 or even able to play period myself being one of them. Proof_ go count the "why are the the games empty" threads (provided you can count at all) and you will see (if you have half a brain) that be it as it may the Match maker is the cause but NOT the only cause. The factors involved in CB3 being a fail and driving 2/3's of the community away are as follows. ONE nerf bat beat the ss to a bloody pulp (and some other mech's but not as bad).Match maker (we know they are testing it but some % of people dont read and or are stupid and leave the game thinking this is the way it will be(go count the "where is the server browser" threads) THIRD this is the biggest one that needs to be addressed ++++IMMEDIATELY**** win 7 32 bit "out of memory" OVER 2/3 of this community is 32 bit OS and the fact remains the the majority of people run 32 bit.

this issue makes this game UNPLAYABLE PERIOD!! like "black prophecy" Hawken made some or many un popular changes "black prophecy" suffered a huge blow from not listening to people who actually know what their talking about and it ultimately sunk them one year later. They are no longer in business. LEARN FORM THIS meteor/adhesive or you like many other great games will suffer that fate.

[Talesin]

Deu, on December 02 2012 - 04:51 AM, said:

You saw a Brawler charging at you getting in his comfort spot to take you out and you just sat there and shot at him_ I think you defeated yourself there.

There are no mechs that are as good as they used to be because of the complaint threads. What else can the devs do besides nerf all mechs_

It's bogus that people do not want technique to be a part of the game mechanics. It means very little now to be a great player when the skill requirement is lessened each event. Skill gaps are a thing of the past.

No, I saw a Brawler in MY comfort spot (long range) charging at me like an fuzzy bunny after taking slug+sabot damage and having my position pointed out by the shot-tracer trails, not using any cover whatsoever, and he was rewarded for it with a kill. And no, I was landing every shot until close-range. Not hard, as he wasn't bothering to dodge. If anything, the 'zero skill' would be on the Brawler's part. What really SHOULD have happened is that him playing like an fuzzy bunny should have ended up with him being taken out, NOT him being able to ignore the damage being done entirely, move into a situation where he was at an advatage by using basic W+M1 'tactics', and score a kill.

I'm pointing it out as that even starting in the most advantageous position possible, that a SS currently is drastically under-powered as compared to almost any other mecha in the game.

Again, playing since A2 and one of the better <<REDACTED>> during that phase. I know how to lead a target, I know how to hull-down, flank, use turrets for other than force multipliers, and act as a proper overwatch. Intimating that it was a skill difference is frankly insulting. I've already said; if it had been a midrange or short_ Would have been entirely my fault. But starting LONG range, ignoring cover and playing like an fuzzy bunny... and being rewarded for it_ No. I will not accept that, and WILL complain when the sharpshooter (or more exactly, the sabot and slug) has been hit with the nerf-bat THAT BADLY.

[SunshineSloth]

I'd really like to see video of this event because from my experience I can down a brawler in the situation you described.

If he charged in to get closer enough to negate your advantage. Good for him.

If you stood there simply firing while he advanced. Good for him.

I doubt this though so I want to see video. I simply don't find the SS as under powered as everyone else.

[defekt]

I don’t want this to read like a “L2P n00b!” reply, I just think it’s far too early to cry foul as the true potential of this asset hasn’t yet been widely seen.

I've witnessed a number of Sharpies doing very well indeed throughout CB3 (since the re-buff); far fewer than in any other test, granted, but that in and of itself is not symptomatic of an underpowered chassis.  The common, recognisable factor was good team co-ordination*.  Sharpies now come with rules of engagement, just like a number of the other machines do, i.e., you can't lone wolf anymore.  No, they probably won't be seen rampaging around the battlefield, reliably and consistently topping the scoreboards match after match (as was the case), but when it comes to organised team play most teams will probably want a good Sharpie amongst their ranks.  It is still the case that no other machine on the roster lashes out that amount of unavoidable, entirely front-loaded damage at just about any range.

If there is a problem with the Sharpie it’s that its value to any well built team isn’t always fairly reflected in the score line, which in turn has a knock-on effect on how fast you can level a Sharpie.  That to me does not signal issue with the Sharpie but it does put a question mark over the way that the game rewards effectively playing the objectives.

I'm no huge fan of CB3, IMO this has not been as enjoyable an experience as was the case with the other tests -- I'm old enough and wise enough to know the difference between reduced enjoyment and the inevitable wearing of the novelty factor -- but for all of CB3s faults the revised Sharpie isn’t one of them, IMO.

* Any co-ordination, even poorly instructed co-ordination, is often better than no co-ordination at all.

[Beemann]

TBH I don't know if steel killers would run a sharpshooter in the game's current state. It's a bit iffy
I do know that if we ended up with more maps like Titan, I'd definitely want some infiltrators and brawlers
I think most of the issues are purely visual though. Crosshair is uber jiggly and I see shots appear to connect with targets that dash away a second after my shot... and take no damage (even in CQC)
If we're gonna have to lead shots, it needs to be a bit more intuitive on the visual end, though I think that's widespread
Also I don't feel that the damage was ridiculous before, particularly given the much slower firerate, nor did I think the slug needed a nerf at any point
Dropping them below TOW damage was silly, especially when the TOW offers a much better safety net and has a faster ROF

Edited by Beemann, December 03 2012 - 03:24 AM.

[defekt]

More maps like Bazaar will make Sharpies a more viable choice.  I don't disagree that given the current map set there is very little incentive to pick a Sharpie for CB3.

I don't have issue with the Sabot doing less damage than the TOW, at least I wouldn't if the gun play mechanic for the Sabot was improved.  The TOW loses a lot of its effectiveness over range whereas the Sabot doesn’t (w/ improved gun play mechanics).

As for the issue with hit lag: again, that is not the fault of the Sharpie per sé, it's a netcode problem.  I often see delayed/bizarre hit registration results (frequently my point blank flak hits do nothing at all) and there is no denying that the Sharpie (and the Brawler) pays a higher price for this mechanism by virtue of it needing to make every single shot count.

There are still a lot of issues that interact negatively with the way that the Sharpie plays, but I think it’s important to recognise and treat the sources of these issues rather than take the knee-jerk approach (aka. the ‘Tripwire Interactive’ approach) of treating only the symptoms.

Edited by defekt, December 03 2012 - 03:46 AM.

[Beemann]

defekt, on December 03 2012 - 03:44 AM, said:

More maps like Bazaar will make Sharpies a more viable choice.  I don't disagree that given the current map set there is very little incentive to pick a Sharpie for CB3.

I don't have issue with the Sabot doing less damage than the TOW, at least I wouldn't if the gun play mechanic for the Sabot was improved.  The TOW loses a lot of its effectiveness over range whereas the Sabot doesn’t (w/ improved gun play mechanics).

As for the issue with hit lag: again, that is not the fault of the Sharpie per sé, it's a netcode problem.  I often see delayed/bizarre hit registration results (frequently my point blank flak hits do nothing at all) and there is no denying that the Sharpie (and the Brawler) pays a higher price for this mechanism by virtue of it needing to make every single shot count.

There are still a lot of issues that interact negatively with the way that the Sharpie plays, but I think it’s important to recognise and treat the sources of these issues rather than take the knee-jerk approach (aka. the ‘Tripwire Interactive’ approach) of treating only the symptoms.

On Bazaar you only want sharpshooter if you can dominate up until the AA/S2 and beyond if you're the uphill spawn. While maps that emulate the bottom half would favour sharpshooters (and rocketeers) I still don't think that
A: Those would be particularly balanced and
B: You'd ever take a sharpshooter over a rocketeer in that situation, particularly if they beef up the consistency of the rockets or let them be fired in a more skill-intensive manner. The HEAT cannon does what.. like... almost double the damage of the slug at full charge_ so any class with that weapon would also have decent long range capability

Also, while the Sharpshooter has RNG that the player can't overcome with skill, the TOW's range can be. The spiralling rockets actually are consistent and can be predicted. It's not simple, but it can be done
Plus it has a faster fire rate and doesn't have to direct hit

Also the SS changes felt pretty knee-jerk in the first place, since we're throwing that term around

Edited by Beemann, December 03 2012 - 03:56 AM.

[defekt]

More maps like Bazaar are sorely needed; maps with different ratios of cover density, choke points, killing fields, main drags, etc.  The game can’t survive on a diet of mainly claustrophobic maps and still expect mech designs like the Sharpie to be viable.  Call me optimistic but by virtue of the Sharpie and the [REDACTED] merely existing this leads me to assume that such maps will be making an appearance.

I don’t know why you’re talking about the TOW here so I’m going to leave that.

I'd be reluctant to use the Rocketeer as an example for anything until we see what changes are made to the Seeker.

The Sharpie over-nerf was a knee-jerk reaction, and that was my point: the devs admitted that perhaps they took council from the voices of the bleating many rather than from arguably more considered opinion.  Nothing wrong with that at this stage of the game’s development, in fact in may ways this has endeared Adhesive to many.  Point being, one knee-jerk action does not fix another.  The subsequent Sharpie re-buff has brought the thing far closer to a comfortable slot on the roster than it has yet seen; it’s not quite there yet but IMO many of the remaining issues that still affect Sharpie game play will be addressed by changes and additions to other areas of the game.

[CHR1SZ]

To be honest, I'm quite happy with ss as it is. Ok, I don't play it, but I would rather one mech is not really viable than have everyone hide and camp as ss cos it would destroy the dynamic, dodge-oriented gameplay that the devs have carefully nurtured.

[The_Silencer]

I used to play the SS a lot during the previous Alpha/Beta testings. It's an unique chassis from both solo-hunter and team support tactical standpoints. Would be a shame to have this unit nerfed so much that no one uses it anymore in the future. In other words: Save the OB1 SS!

P.S. I have not purchased the SS this time (during this CB3), so I just can feel my worries on it according to what I'm reading here from you guys.

[DarkPulse]

Darkbolt, on December 02 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

agreed this game is going the way of "black prophecy" strait into the dirt. i wont play this cb3 junk i hope they do something for open beta that makes this game YA KNOW PLAYABLE!! if they continue to listen to the fools and their are many just by looking at this thread i see the prevailing attitude against the SS are their opponents. Where in by their motives are to increase their score and not the playability of the game its self.

And we have seen the direct result of this by over HALF of the community not even playing CB3 or even able to play period myself being one of them. Proof_ go count the "why are the the games empty" threads (provided you can count at all) and you will see (if you have half a brain) that be it as it may the Match maker is the cause but NOT the only cause. The factors involved in CB3 being a fail and driving 2/3's of the community away are as follows. ONE nerf bat beat the ss to a bloody pulp (and some other mech's but not as bad).Match maker (we know they are testing it but some % of people dont read and or are stupid and leave the game thinking this is the way it will be(go count the "where is the server browser" threads) THIRD this is the biggest one that needs to be addressed ++++IMMEDIATELY**** win 7 32 bit "out of memory" OVER 2/3 of this community is 32 bit OS and the fact remains the the majority of people run 32 bit.

this issue makes this game UNPLAYABLE PERIOD!! like "black prophecy" Hawken made some or many un popular changes "black prophecy" suffered a huge blow from not listening to people who actually know what their talking about and it ultimately sunk them one year later. They are no longer in business. LEARN FORM THIS meteor/adhesive or you like many other great games will suffer that fate.

I'd just like to say up front: Man I hate people like you. You remind me of the child who doesn't get his way.

Allow me to address your points.

Darkbolt, on December 02 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

agreed this game is going the way of "black prophecy" strait into the dirt. i wont play this cb3 junk i hope they do something for open beta that makes this game YA KNOW PLAYABLE!! if they continue to listen to the fools and their are many just by looking at this thread i see the prevailing attitude against the SS are their opponents. Where in by their motives are to increase their score and not the playability of the game its self.

The game is fully playable. Most of us do not have any problems playing it. The class is "playable" but it could be brought up to more of a thing where it does not need its hand held, nor to be right in its weak zones to do damage.

Darkbolt, on December 02 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

And we have seen the direct result of this by over HALF of the community not even playing CB3 or even able to play period myself being one of them.

85% of all statistics are made up.

Darkbolt, on December 02 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

Proof_ go count the "why are the the games empty" threads (provided you can count at all) and you will see (if you have half a brain) that be it as it may the Match maker is the cause but NOT the only cause.

Or it could be other factors, though I would suspect it is mostly due to matchmaking being suboptimal. It dumps me into plenty of empty servers, and people are impatient. They don't like to wait.

This is partially a matchmaking issue and partially a volume of players issue. I would not expect this past 12/12.

Darkbolt, on December 02 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

The factors involved in CB3 being a fail and driving 2/3's of the community away are as follows. ONE nerf bat beat the ss to a bloody pulp (and some other mech's but not as bad).

I'm pretty sure 2/3 of the community does NOT run SS. In fact, only the good players tended to run it due to it taking singularly the most skill to use.

Also, 26% of statistics are made up.

Darkbolt, on December 02 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

Match maker (we know they are testing it but some % of people dont read and or are stupid and leave the game thinking this is the way it will be(go count the "where is the server browser" threads)

Then that's their fault, not the devs. They know it's a matchmaking test, they should know to stick around.

Darkbolt, on December 02 2012 - 08:07 PM, said:

THIRD this is the biggest one that needs to be addressed ++++IMMEDIATELY**** win 7 32 bit "out of memory" OVER 2/3 of this community is 32 bit OS and the fact remains the the majority of people run 32 bit.

...I'm pretty sure if you took a survey result, you would find that more gamer PCs are actually 64-bit systems and not 32-bit ones. Oh wait, here's proof that 60% of PCs on Steam are Win7 x64.

Also, 73% of statistics are made up.

Edited by DarkPulse, December 03 2012 - 10:23 AM.

[Karaipantsu]

Sharpshooter's been relegated to a support role, we can pretty much all agree on that.  I love playing a Sharpie in a 4v4 or 5v5 MA/Siege game, because there's plenty of people around me to finish off a target after the 3 tap of Slug/Sabot/Slug gets them softened up.  I went 15/2/20 in a rather long Seige game last night in my lvl 12 Sharpshooter, and felt like a baus.  But in a disorganized TDM, the Sharp becomes basically useless.  I went 0/7/5 with my sharp the very same night before switching over to Assault and getting back on even footing.  I'd never even CONSIDER bringing it into FFA DM.

Basically, if you have the crew to support, the Sharp is pretty damn awesome.  It's probably the best softener in the game, and an apex support unit.  But if you're running with disorganized puggies, you'll be destroyed and embarrassed.  I think it's been made too situational to be a true competitor, and I love it anyway.

Edited by Karaipantsu, December 03 2012 - 10:37 AM.

[The_Silencer]

@Darkpulse: We should differentiate in between casual gamers, gamers, hardcore gamers and ultra or pro gamers. I honestly think that, still, the amount of players running on 32-bit Operating Systems is huge. That from types 1 to, at least, type 3 gamers. For instance, WinXP is still being suported due to the huge amount of machines running on it in the World. Although these numbers are evolving very fast from the LO-TEK royalm to a an increasing wide variety of upgraded platforms, from both Hardware and OS versions standpoint, in the 2012-2013 overdrive gaming scene.

On Sharpshoters... I think this chassis should share both support and solo-hunter (or a combination of both..) roles at the same time. That is gonna be a challenge for guys in charge of the balancing are for this mech. We've to take into account that SSs got items to be used on the battlefield and according to their strats and tactics.

[DarkPulse]

The_Silencer, on December 03 2012 - 11:36 AM, said:

@Darkpulse: We should differentiate in between casual gamers, gamers, hardcore gamers and ultra or pro gamers. I honestly think that, still, the amount of players running on 32-bit Operating Systems is huge. That from types 1 to, at least, type 3 gamers. For instance, WinXP is still being suported due to the huge amount of machines running on it in the World. Although these numbers are evolving very fast from the LO-TEK royalm to a an increasing wide variety of upgraded platforms, from both Hardware and OS versions standpoint, in the 2012-2013 overdrive gaming scene.

Sure, but most casual gamer types will be playing Farmville and the like anyway. Anyone who runs what I would call "non-casual games" is likely to have more of an idea to know why going to 64-bit is a good thing. Regardless, a lot of 32-bit support will die off when WinXP is taken off all support in April 2014. Few people are using Vista, and Win7 will be the next real dominant OS.

If you're targeting eSports, as the Hawken devs are, you're going to be targeting, by default, a more savvy crowd. Even their recommended specs say flat-out, 64-bit OS.

Edited by DarkPulse, December 03 2012 - 12:46 PM.

[The_Silencer]

Undoubtfully, keeping your system upgraded as much as you may afford will be a good idea if you like to play modern games. Although, attracting new end-users to upgrade their specs and/or handling new players, who come from and may also "spread the word", running the game on low/mid-end puters must be taken into account too. In other words, by checking their specs and subsequently tunning their video settings before launching the game for their first time.

Nevertheless, I'm (and I'm gonna be) with you on that playing modern games on machines matching or surpassing the recommended specs will be translated in an unique gaming experience; always.

[DarkPulse]

The_Silencer, on December 03 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

Nevertheless, I'm (and I'm gonna be) with you on that playing modern games on machines matching or surpassing the recommended specs will be translated in an unique gaming experience; always.

Or to put it more succinctly, "Minimum specs mean it will run, Recommended specs mean it will run well."

Edited by DarkPulse, December 03 2012 - 01:36 PM.

[The_Silencer]

As you wish..