108 replies to this topic

[Darkbolt]

60% on steam lolz like steam is any indication of the ENTIRE WORLD your 60% is skewed and inaccurate period. And hate all you like hater im already over it heh. I personally would love to see this game do well by trying to get people to see reason. I don't wear the fact that im in some beta like a status badge on my shirt like some people do *cough

This is beta and we are supposed to voice our thoughts/misgivings and or concerns about BAD changes to the game. Can't you see_ this has already divided this community and the fact that we are arguing about this only proves this further. Many have been left with a bad taste in their mouth after CB3 came out. Now you can sit there and claim the same old junk its like a skipping record "get skill" "learn to play better" "don't camp" ect ect.......FACT is me and other i play with are highly regarded marksmen in many other games. We help out our team, and we play the role as intended. But like some people have said if your simply stupid and dont use cover and you get a hole blow through you from a sniper then run on to the forums and cry like a silly little brat. This type of behavior in FACT has hurt this game thus forcing the devs to make crazy and simple rediculus changes to the game.

You can sit here and pull apart my words and use them in seemingly out of context ways but in the end there are some of us who know better and are not fooled by the BS and dis information. FACT remains that there are a huge amount of people out there (myself included) who are prevented from playing this game (in my case 2 things prevent me) I have networked with ALOT of people about this i KNOW there are 1000's of people in the same boat as me. So do not sit here and pretend this is not an issue when clearly it is.

[fwip]

If you get 0 kills in a game, it doesn't matter what mech you're using. There's simply no way you're going to do anything useful with any mech against that team.

[NoobDestroyer]

I am leveling a sharpshooter as an alt.  Rather than rehash most of whats already been said.. Here is what works for me.

Sharpshooter shines like a fuzzy bunny in a coordinated group. They wont take down a target all by themselves either from up close or far away.

So what I do is call out my target, or have a med class assualt call out the targets on voice. If I then hit that target first, then the assuat and heavys jump in after, ive done half their work for them and they will finish off with ease. So get on voice, and call targets and go for assists. And stay super far away and use cover all the time. And a body gaurd doesnt help either. Someone you can call on voice chat for help or someone dedicated to watch your back should anyone try to advance to sniper position.

[DarkPulse]

Darkbolt, on December 03 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

60% on steam lolz like steam is any indication of the ENTIRE WORLD your 60% is skewed and inaccurate period. And hate all you like hater im already over it heh. I personally would love to see this game do well by trying to get people to see reason. I don't wear the fact that im in some beta like a status badge on my shirt like some people do *cough

Considering that Hawken's devs intend to go after the eSport audience, Steam is a very valid target audience. Simply put, aside from more casual gamers (or more broke ones), I cannot think of a gamer who would seriously still be stuck on a 32-bit OS. CPUs for the last six or seven years have been 64-bit capable. The vast majority of holdouts are on XP-32. Especially as some games are starting to require DX10 or higher, forcing a drive towards at least Vista, and for a more average gaming computer now, 8 GB of RAM is the recommended amount - and that needs 64-bit.

Darkbolt, on December 03 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

This is beta and we are supposed to voice our thoughts/misgivings and or concerns about BAD changes to the game. Can't you see_ this has already divided this community and the fact that we are arguing about this only proves this further. Many have been left with a bad taste in their mouth after CB3 came out. Now you can sit there and claim the same old junk its like a skipping record "get skill" "learn to play better" "don't camp" ect ect.......FACT is me and other i play with are highly regarded marksmen in many other games. We help out our team, and we play the role as intended. But like some people have said if your simply stupid and dont use cover and you get a hole blow through you from a sniper then run on to the forums and cry like a silly little brat. This type of behavior in FACT has hurt this game thus forcing the devs to make crazy and simple rediculus changes to the game.

Hey, I'm in agreement the Sharpshooter is not as good as it should be. It used to be my main class. A good bunch of us agree the Sniper was mostly fine with some tweaks, but it's up to the devs to make those tweaks. Until they do (or if they don't) I've got several other classes I can use and still stomp with in the meanwhile.

Darkbolt, on December 03 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

You can sit here and pull apart my words and use them in seemingly out of context ways but in the end there are some of us who know better and are not fooled by the BS and dis information. FACT remains that there are a huge amount of people out there (myself included) who are prevented from playing this game (in my case 2 things prevent me) I have networked with ALOT of people about this i KNOW there are 1000's of people in the same boat as me. So do not sit here and pretend this is not an issue when clearly it is.

The Sharpshooter issue may or may not go away. The 32-bit one DEFINITELY won't. Face it, games eventually are going to outgrow 32-bit systems. Right now, some are leaping off DX9; it won't be too long until 64-bit is made for bigger ones (and indeed, I'm starting to see some games that only work on a 64-bit OS). The minimum specs for the game need 3 GB of RAM and 32 or 64-bit OS; recommended is 8 GB and 64-bit OS.

If you insist on playing on a 32-bit OS, keep the settings lower, close unnecessary programs, and so on. You know, like the old days of gaming from 1993-2002 if you remember those. The best move is to still get to a 64-bit OS - before the choice is not yours, and some favorite game mandates it. Or before April 2014, after which point more devs will probably consider DX10 the minimum.

[SamSlade]

DarkPulse, on December 03 2012 - 05:21 PM, said:

Considering that Hawken's devs intend to go after the eSport audience,

HAHAHAHA...

On the Sharpshooter... thus far I've read a lot of creative and obtuse ways of saying it's a learn to play issue.  My best Sharpshooter TDM game thus far is 17 kills 0 deaths and about 12 Assits on Prosk(yes I was a level 15 in a room full of level 0 to 5 mechs, belive it or don't...meh)  I still feel like it is a glorified turret.

So far no one has directly addressed the RNG scatter, the lack of hitscan on a sniper weapon in a game with PLENTY of other hitscan weapons, the required scope, the required lack of movement, the ability of other mechs to play fire support in a far superior manner, etc...

Arguments please, not more learn to play hubris... can't believe I has to say that twice.

Edited by SamSlade, December 03 2012 - 07:17 PM.

[Sylhiri]

SamSlade, on December 03 2012 - 07:16 PM, said:

the lack of hitscan on a sniper weapon in a game with PLENTY of other hitscan weapons

Which hitscan weapons would those be_

[DarkPulse]

Sylhiri, on December 03 2012 - 07:21 PM, said:

Which hitscan weapons would those be_

AR, SMC, Vulcan. Possibly Slug and SA Hawkins.

[SamSlade]

Slug isn't Hitscan... SA HAwkins is a horrible weapon.

AR has significant range considering it's RoF and is Hitscan.  Also the Flak weapons.   All the projectile weapons aside from sabot/slug are explosive and/or seeking.  They also don't have a bs RNG attached when you don't zoom...

I've been playing the Sharpshooter a little bit everyday just to try and like this game.  The more I see the more I understand that this is just a WoW-esque gind-fest with guns.  Come open Beta it will be really hard to motivate myself to start over... more so because I expect more economy gain tweaks before the floodgates open.  Glad I decided to wait a bit before buying that Vanguard thing.

Still makes me sad.  This was supposed to be my new FPS fix when not playing MWO.

Edited by SamSlade, December 03 2012 - 08:52 PM.

[Echelonex]

When i tried my SS in CBT3 i just KNEW something was wrong as it was waaaaaay harder to play than from previous test!

I am sick of you people saying that SS is not underpowered and that you now just need a little bit of skill to play him and good team coordination! OH WELL, i dont see that you need ANY skill at playing other mech classes, they all can easily solo and they dont depend on their team!

While i am at my SS trying to get cover, good sniping spot,  think of a strategy, and pray to God i am not in a team with several monkeys in a mechs, other mechs can just branlessly go around map and shoot at everything they come up to! I have to worry about all that stuff while other mech users dont!  It just takes the fun from a game.

I mean, i set a hollogram 50m away and 4 players were just going around it and shooting it for at least 20 seconds ignoring me, and i couldnt take even 1 of them cuz my mech was heating so fast and delt so little damage! They just frikin roam  over the map, and when i try to take down someone from far, they just get alerted and boost towards me and when they get close, i cant scope them and without scope, guns are so inacurate they are useless!

And i know how to shoot and hit a target, i was tester from ALPHA 2, and i only used SS, as i would often get on top of the scoreboard if i was playing with less experienced players but when i was playing with skilled pilots things were all balanced, and i wasnt at any advantage over them!

Edited by Echelonex, December 04 2012 - 05:17 PM.

[ReachH]

Oh look, another Sharpie QQ thread. Looks like all the usual people have got the main points down already.

I will add how fvcking disappointing it was not to get a level 20 weapon unlock.

Believe it or not, I think things will get a lot better for the SS as people get better generally. Your team mates will be able to hold their own against bad odds for longer, giving you more freedom to work your magic. The SS can be a force multiplier and a tide turner, even if all you are doing is making sure their best player(s) have to spend more time repairing or running breathing space (especially those Class-As who are in serious danger after only one volley).

As for organized skrims, I think every team needs at least one player who can switch to SS and be good at it.

[defekt]

Echelonex, on December 04 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

...i dont see that you need ANY skill at playing other mech classes...

As far as I see it there is only one mech on the CB3 roster that could be safely regarded as being the 'low skill' option: the Rocketeer.  I’ll grant you, the SS is probably one of the hardest to get the most out of at present, particularly outside of a pre-made teams scenario.

Echelonex, on December 04 2012 - 05:13 PM, said:

...they all can easily solo and they dont depend on their team!

All of the Cs need team support, if only for the fact that they can't escape from anything thus their only route to survival is a team-mate.  The Grenadier is perhaps the most 'soloable' C-class but even so you'd much prefer not to (unless it is part of a planned team manoeuvre) as your chances of escape should it all go base over apex are still comparatively low.

[hestoned]

My only beef is that Slug and Sabot aren't hitscan anymore. I could care less about the damage or heat nerfs.
Please devs just make it hitscan again

[vanasenshi]

Hey ya'll!  I'm Vanasenshi, a Game Designer and I've been deep into the weapon balancing since CBT1.   I want to touch on your thoughts on SS and let you guys know what the plans are for this class for OBT since it's rapidly approaching.  

I've brought the Sabot Rifle closer back to it's CBT2 stats, as well as increased its basic damage a tad and highly reduced its spread, while zoomed as well as unzoomed.  The weapon is an accurate, deadly cannon again! To balance this, I've reduced the turn radius slightly while you are zoomed in.  This will create decision choices between when to be zoomed in and not as you won't be able to turn super fast and attack people, zooming out then back in would be much more appropriate if you had to turn 100 degrees plus.

Secondly, I've upgraded the primary weapons attached to the SS as well, the Slug Rifle has had its accuracy increased to pinpoint precision.  I've also decreased the spread dramatically when unzoomed.  The slug will make a great burst combo, especially when fired simultaniously with the Sabot (much like CBT2).  

The SA Hawkins has had major improvements back towards CBT2 as well, I've increased the weapons rate of fire again (not as fast as it used to be, but still very noticeable).  The accuracy has also greatly increased, and does not require you to be zoomed in for extreme accuracy.

Anyways, I look forward to your feedback once 12-12-12 hits and HAWKEN invades the world!  Please keep up with all the great feedback, it's extremely invaluable to me, and the rest of the team, when trying to make the best game not just for us, but every single pilot out there!

*Edit : Also, the Sabot rifle is still "Hitscan" That never changed

[bacon_avenger]

[ADH]vanasenshi, on December 06 2012 - 02:27 AM, said:

Hey ya'll!  I'm Vanasenshi, a Game Designer and I've been deep into the weapon balancing since CBT1.   I want to touch on your thoughts on SS and let you guys know what the plans are for this class for OBT since it's rapidly approaching.

Nice to meet you, glad you are letting us know whats going on with the mech.  

You should have a custom title as well.  Perhaps 'Keeper of the pew-pew-pew_'

[ADH]vanasenshi, on December 06 2012 - 02:27 AM, said:

I've brought the Sabot Rifle closer back to it's CBT2 stats, as well as increased its basic damage a tad and highly reduced its spread, while zoomed as well as unzoomed.  The weapon is an accurate, deadly cannon again! To balance this, I've reduced the turn radius slightly while you are zoomed in.  This will create decision choices between when to be zoomed in and not as you won't be able to turn super fast and attack people, zooming out then back in would be much more appropriate if you had to turn 100 degrees plus.

Hmm, hopefully the turn speed isn't nerfed too badly, we will see when open beta starts.

Otherwise, cool, I'm glad to hear the accuracy has been brought up again.  There isn't much that is more frustrating than being scoped in, on target, seeing the trails going in the right place, and still missing (I have this exact thing on video).

[ADH]vanasenshi, on December 06 2012 - 02:27 AM, said:

Secondly, I've upgraded the primary weapons attached to the SS as well, the Slug Rifle has had its accuracy increased to pinpoint precision.  I've also decreased the spread dramatically when unzoomed.  The slug will make a great burst combo, especially when fired simultaniously with the Sabot (much like CBT2).

Cool

[ADH]vanasenshi, on December 06 2012 - 02:27 AM, said:

The SA Hawkins has had major improvements back towards CBT2 as well, I've increased the weapons rate of fire again (not as fast as it used to be, but still very noticeable).  The accuracy has also greatly increased, and does not require you to be zoomed in for extreme accuracy.

This should be useful.  The Hawkens, after it's last adjustment, actually did seem a lot more useful as a CQC weapon than the slug.  It should be interesting to see how it handles after this upcoming change.

There is one thing that I don't see mentioned...  The slug/sabot, have they been changed back to a hitscan_

Edited by bacon_avenger, December 06 2012 - 02:44 AM.

[vanasenshi]

bacon_avenger, on December 06 2012 - 02:38 AM, said:

You should have a custom title as well.  Perhaps 'Keeper of the pew-pew-pew_'

I approve of this name!

[DarkPulse]

[ADH]vanasenshi, on December 06 2012 - 02:27 AM, said:

I've brought the Sabot Rifle closer back to it's CBT2 stats, as well as increased its basic damage a tad and highly reduced its spread, while zoomed as well as unzoomed.  The weapon is an accurate, deadly cannon again! To balance this, I've reduced the turn radius slightly while you are zoomed in.  This will create decision choices between when to be zoomed in and not as you won't be able to turn super fast and attack people, zooming out then back in would be much more appropriate if you had to turn 100 degrees plus.

I could see slower turns while zoomed in as a very acceptable tradeoff. Once again, it reinforces a skill requirement, as opposed to hoping your shots just plain hit.

[ADH]vanasenshi, on December 06 2012 - 02:27 AM, said:

Secondly, I've upgraded the primary weapons attached to the SS as well, the Slug Rifle has had its accuracy increased to pinpoint precision.  I've also decreased the spread dramatically when unzoomed.  The slug will make a great burst combo, especially when fired simultaniously with the Sabot (much like CBT2).

Does it work from on the move, though_ That's really the kicker with the slug. Damage was fine, fire rate was fine, even scoped accuracy was decent this time, but if you started moving, you started missing. No other class really has to stop to effectively attack, so if this thing's only pinpoint when you're not moving, it's going to at least mean if we stand still we'll hit - but standing still is a very fatal thing in a firefight.

Simply put, as long as I don't have to pray to Eclipse, the fuzzy bunny god, that my shots will hit, that's perfectly fine. Standing still for a brief moment or two is great, but if I have to move, I kind of need to fall back on my primary weapon. But due to the Sabot's massive cooldown lag, the Primary definitely needs to be able to pick up the slack, regardless if it's SA Hawkins, Slug, or whatever mystery third weapon we will be allowed to unlock at Level 20 (HEAT Cannon or EOC Repeater are my two likeliest guesses) and it needs to work from on the move. If neither of the guns can hit because we're moving, we're kind of boned.

[ADH]vanasenshi, on December 06 2012 - 02:27 AM, said:

The SA Hawkins has had major improvements back towards CBT2 as well, I've increased the weapons rate of fire again (not as fast as it used to be, but still very noticeable).  The accuracy has also greatly increased, and does not require you to be zoomed in for extreme accuracy.

Thank goodness for this, CB1 and CB2 drove me nuts anytime I forgot to swap out the SA Hawkins for the Slug Rifle. CB3 made it actually good - really, really good. Almost TOO good compared to the Slug and Sabot.

So I guess a better way to put this would be "improved compared to CB2, but not as good as CB3" I presume_ IIRC, the old SA Hawkins in CB1/CB2 did something like 12 damage a shot; in CB3 I think this was ramped up to like the 34-36 range. I'd presume now it would be something like 25ish, but firing roughly 3x as fast as the Slug_ This makes them relatively equally powerful in terms of DPS, but the Slug would be a winner based on heat and the like I'd presume due to the slower ROF and more loaded damage, thus rewarding the more accurate shooter, while the SA Hawkins would be higher in heat generation but more forgiving of missed shots.

[ADH]vanasenshi, on December 06 2012 - 02:27 AM, said:

*Edit : Also, the Sabot rifle is still "Hitscan" That never changed

Could've fooled me, but in that case, I'll blame the RNG and the spread then. Or maybe the smoke trail effect was making me think that it was a projectile.

Either way, your words encourage me to the point that I guess I'll buy one with my Commander MP after all. Since I paid for that MP this time, hopefully it's not a waste of its price like it was this phase. If it is as reset back to CB2 levels as you say it is, it'll let me smoke those stupid Rocketeers without constantly eating Seekers to the face, and then I will show them several new lessons on being a pain in the ass.

Edited by DarkPulse, December 06 2012 - 06:14 AM.

[Interrobang]

[ADH]vanasenshi, on December 06 2012 - 02:27 AM, said:

*Edit : Also, the Sabot rifle is still "Hitscan" That never changed

Thank you for saving our dying race before it's too late. Hopefully this will bring back the same wonder and enjoyment I had with the SS before CB3. Is the Sabot rifle really still hitscan, though_ I've noticed it being way harder to hit my shots in CB3, having to trail my shots ahead of my opponent. It's hard for me to believe that nothing has changed and it's all in my head.

[wat]

yayy, feedback.  i share the sentiment that slug should be pinpoint accurate when moving.

I see two ways the SS could play:

1. Current damage slug with pinpoint accuracy while moving
2. much higher damage slug that must be shot stationary.  This would create a game mechanic where fighting an SS means carefully watching when he is about to stop moving, then dodging at the moment he stops to avoid his imminent slug shot.  Imagine fighting an SS that is truly deadly in few shots, but requires move-stop-move-stop.

Frankly, fuzzy bunny option 2, let's just have a fun to play with pinpoint accurate slug you can shoot while moving.

Lastly I fall somewhere between the two sides on the general SS issue.  I think it's currently underpowered and not fun to play in most situations, but I share the sentiment that its less fun to play against camping snipers in other shooters.  I think SS should stand more of a chance in 1v1's and be playable in DM, instead of merely being a support role, unless there was some way to create a system where the SS gets a buff in DM to adjust for its role as support in team modes.  No idea how this would be implemented.

[AsianJoyKiller]

[ADH]vanasenshi, on December 06 2012 - 02:27 AM, said:

Hey ya'll!  I'm Vanasenshi, a Game Designer and I've been deep into the weapon balancing since CBT1.   I want to touch on your thoughts on SS and let you guys know what the plans are for this class for OBT since it's rapidly approaching.  

I've brought the Sabot Rifle closer back to it's CBT2 stats, as well as increased its basic damage a tad and highly reduced its spread, while zoomed as well as unzoomed.  The weapon is an accurate, deadly cannon again! To balance this, I've reduced the turn radius slightly while you are zoomed in.  This will create decision choices between when to be zoomed in and not as you won't be able to turn super fast and attack people, zooming out then back in would be much more appropriate if you had to turn 100 degrees plus.

Secondly, I've upgraded the primary weapons attached to the SS as well, the Slug Rifle has had its accuracy increased to pinpoint precision.  I've also decreased the spread dramatically when unzoomed.  The slug will make a great burst combo, especially when fired simultaniously with the Sabot (much like CBT2).  

The SA Hawkins has had major improvements back towards CBT2 as well, I've increased the weapons rate of fire again (not as fast as it used to be, but still very noticeable).  The accuracy has also greatly increased, and does not require you to be zoomed in for extreme accuracy.

Anyways, I look forward to your feedback once 12-12-12 hits and HAWKEN invades the world!  Please keep up with all the great feedback, it's extremely invaluable to me, and the rest of the team, when trying to make the best game not just for us, but every single pilot out there!

*Edit : Also, the Sabot rifle is still "Hitscan" That never changed

Nice to see these changes being made.

Just keep this thought in mind when open beta hits: There will ALWAYS be a certain amount of QQ surrounding sniper classes. Come 12.12.12, there will people whining and moaning about how SS is OP or whatever. Make sure that the QQ isn't what gets listened to for the basis of balance.
I'm no fan of sniper classes myself really, especially in Hawken where I find playstyles that are much more fun, but I don't want to see them unnecessarily nerfed again.

I'll also echo DarkPulse here.
Being able to at least hit accurately while moving with the primary weapon is a big deal. Personally, I would hope that you remain almost pinpoint accurate with both weapons when moving, but it's the most important for the primary. There's too many games that put an emphasis on staying still while sniping, and I was pleasantly surprised by the fact Hawken allowed you to snipe while moving. I found it much more dynamic and interesting. But I understand not everyone may feel that way.
However, in a game where mobility is king, having your accuracy go to fuzzy bunny every time you move is painfully punishing.

Edited by AsianJoyKiller, December 06 2012 - 10:06 AM.

[BuDeKai]

Darkbolt, on December 03 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

This is beta and we are supposed to voice our thoughts/misgivings and or concerns about BAD changes to the game. Can't you see_ this has already divided this community and the fact that we are arguing about this only proves this further. Many have been left with a bad taste in their mouth after CB3 came out. Now you can sit there and claim the same old junk its like a skipping record "get skill" "learn to play better" "don't camp" ect ect.......FACT is me and other i play with are highly regarded marksmen in many other games. We help out our team, and we play the role as intended. But like some people have said if your simply stupid and dont use cover and you get a hole blow through you from a sniper then run on to the forums and cry like a silly little brat. This type of behavior in FACT has hurt this game thus forcing the devs to make crazy and simple rediculus changes to the game.

you are a angry man who hasnt yet learned how to present ur thoughts and arguments in a calm cool and concise manner, and therefore will continue to be flamed and disregarded as an uninformed player. while i would actually agree that the SS is the least useful class atm, i, as well as many others, will probably have a hard time agreeing with you because of the way your presenting this information.

Darkbolt, on December 03 2012 - 03:39 PM, said:

FACT is me and other i play with are highly regarded marksmen in many other games.

this is not a fact. the earth rotates over a 24 hour period, is a fact. and until you have a fan base, i dont think anyone gets to claim their skills as "highly regarded"

Edited by BuDeKai, December 07 2012 - 08:06 AM.