61 replies to this topic

[The_Silencer]

I think that this chassis is more than fine, fun and well balanced as we saw them in CB3.

You've anything to say on the matter then go it.

I've added a poll as well.

[marshalade]

Meh. Chassis as a whole is not balanced. Miniflak needs nerf via heat generation, and HEAT as a prestige unlock with TOW as secondary is more OP than anything I've seen in the game so far. With just a little tweaking, though, I think it will be in the right place.

[draco7891]

Just one thing: 215.5 DPS on an A-class chassis.

Mini-flak needs a serious toning down (it does more damage, has a longer range, is more accurate and produces less heat than a Flak cannon).

Flak cannon should be limited to C-class chassis. Would like to see Scout with retuned Mini-Flak and Slug Rifle alt primary. That would make it more scout-y.

Draco

[The_Silencer]

I've been piloting 80% of the time an Scout in CB3 and I'm not gonna agree with your opinions. Would be cool if you post what chassis you were piloting whilst fighting against that Scout.. I find the heat of the mini-flak to be fine and the Flak cannon compensates its high Damage Per Second by its.. rate of fire. The Assault has an ability to counter that well, not to mention the one for the Bruiser. guided weapons eat them alive.. in a way which I don't find to be very balanced, I've to say.. Well.. keep it going guys; I'm out for today.

[DarkPulse]

Earlier, I would've said that it was imbalanced as hell, but I got to play with it in this beta phase, and having played with it (and died quite a bit with it), I can safely say that no, it probably needs no major changes.

It's basically a high-risk, high-reward mech. You definitely cannot take very many shots, so movement is your life. If you get cornered or run out of fuel, you're toast. Plus, of course, up close they have plenty of chances to eat splash damage from their own TOWs. A single direct TOW or grenade will put some serious hurt on you, and that may be all that is mostly needed to finish you off.

Throw in the fact that the Mini-Flak becomes pretty inaccurate at mid-range and up, and overall it fills its niche of being devastating up close, but it's also very, very squishy and a good pilot should have a reasonably good chance of killing or at least seriously hurting them.

Edited by DarkPulse, December 09 2012 - 11:52 AM.

[marshalade]

The_Silencer, on December 09 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

I've been piloting 80% of the time an Scout in CB3 and I'm not gonna agree with your opinions. Would be cool if you post what chassis you were piloting whilst fighting against that Scout.. I find the heat of the mini-flak to be fine and the Flak cannon compensates its high Damage Per Second by its.. rate of fire. The Assault has an ability to counter that well, not to mention the one for the Bruiser. guided weapons eat them alive.. in a way which I don't find to be very balanced, I've to say.. Well.. keep it going guys; I'm out for today.

Piloted Infiltrator in CB3. Can you elaborate on the miniflak-flak comparison_ I don't really understand what you were saying.

[DM30]

I wouldn't go so far as to call it OP, not at all, but it probably could use a couple of tiny tweaks for its weapons. I won't go into detail on my thoughts on the two flaks, but suffice it to say that I think that putting one of the most potentially deadly weapons in the game from my experience on a chassis that can outrun anything thanks to its fuel ability might not have been the most sound choice ever made. But I don't really know how to address that without radically altering or even breaking the chassis design, or making flak weapons useless for the heavier, slower mechs. It's a tough call.

I would like to see some fine-tuning done to it, but I certainly don't want the Scout to suffer the same fate as CBE3's Vulcan either, so it's a slippery slope.

[AsianJoyKiller]

Miniflak needs a minor damage nerf. It shouldn't be so much better at sustained DPS than a Vulcan, especially without greater heat generation and no spin up time. Range isn't much of an issue on that thing, as it's not hard to close distance as the fastest A-mech. It also needs consistent spread.

HEAT needs to go. It really just doesn't belong on a Scout.

I'd prefer to see Flak be for only B and C class mechs, but it's pretty balanced on the Scout, so no big deal there.

[Zeshi]

imo, consistent bullet spread (done in a way that truely gimps it in medium and long range)=problem solved.

Although i would still like to see a slight damage nerf OR a slight heat gen nerf.

[Deu]

If my Vulcan has no use then the MF can't either.

Since some people don't understand my short quip post what I'm saying is if the MF is kept the same then everything else needs to be buffed or unnerfed.

Edited by Deu, December 09 2012 - 12:50 PM.

[ReachH]

They have explored the potential of the scout concept. Expect it to be nerfed into mediocrity while they figure out other things with other chassis.

JUST LIKE THE SHARPSHOOTER. FEEL MY PAIN MO'FUZZA!!!

[DESMO]

I think scout hatred masks berzerker insanity.  Either way, fine for team games since they both melt under focused fire (assuming team knows to target a-class first).  Nerf damage a little, but probably better to increase heat - that way the scout can still cause high damage at the initial ambush but will incur greater risk for prolonged encounters: i.e. more risk for standing next to an enemy heavy with nearly twice the health..  Since the scout has enough fuel to boost in and out of close combat there should probably be another factor elevating risk for sustained engagements.

[Analysis]

draco7891, on December 09 2012 - 11:21 AM, said:

Just one thing: 215.5 DPS on an A-class chassis.

Mini-flak needs a serious toning down (it does more damage, has a longer range, is more accurate and produces less heat than a Flak cannon).

Flak cannon should be limited to C-class chassis. Would like to see Scout with retuned Mini-Flak and Slug Rifle alt primary. That would make it more scout-y.

Draco

The mini flak does not have more range than the flak. As others have pointed out the scout is very fragile and can suffer from self inflicted TOW damage. I piloted the scout in CB3 exclusively and loved it. What makes the scout interesting is to do good damage you must get very close to your opponent which makes the TOW firing a precarious option(skill curve). I would hate to have the scout neutered, but wouldn't mind the removal of the heat cannnon.

[145154151164145]

heat gen up on mini, remove heat + tow retartedness, and were good to go.

[draco7891]

Analysis, on December 09 2012 - 03:04 PM, said:

The mini flak does not have more range than the flak.

The Mini-Flak currently has an effective range of 55m, the Flak Cannon has a range of 35m.

Quote

As others have pointed out the scout is very fragile and can suffer from self inflicted TOW damage.

If you fire your TOW at sub-8m distances to your opponent, which is the explosion radius of a TOW (at full upgrade, actually 7.7m). At the more nominal 15-20m most people engage at, it's a non-issue.

The Mini-Flak does 160DPS to the Flak Cannon's 124.8DPS. Giving that kind of dichotomy the manueverability, speed, and agility of an A-Class is pure cheese, any way you slice it. Mini-Flak needs a serious rebalance. If it's supposed to be the "SMG" of the shotguns, then it needs to do less damage than a Flak, with less heat and more total damage (ie, longer firing time, but lower DPS).

Draco

[D20Face]

I still think the infiltrator is more powerful than the miniscoot. The HEATscoot might be the most powerful, but I never got to try it.

And people seem to forget that A classes have about half the health of C classes. They need the increased damage output to allow them to stand a chance.

The reason A classes needed to be kept away from higher damage in cb1-2 was because a large amount of the survivability gap was easily filled by optimizations. Once that was removed they became fine.

Edited by D20Face, December 09 2012 - 11:37 PM.

[Spawny]

D20Face, on December 09 2012 - 11:37 PM, said:

The reason A classes needed to be kept away from higher damage in cb1-2 was because a large amount of the survivability gap was easily filled by optimizations. Once that was removed they became fine.

Completely agree, yet I'm not sure how things will balance out when the revised internals and skill trees are released.
If they're made you can completely negate the downsides of a mech type, it's silly (IE an a-class with 670 armour, a C class as fast as an A-class, etc).

[PiVoR]

Whaaat_ Please dont nerf my Scout! Cause i wont be able to do something like this:




Well, scraw it. Nerf Scout (and rest of A classes as well) to hell, i want my SS to be viable again ;o.

[The_Silencer]

marshalade, on December 09 2012 - 11:50 AM, said:

The_Silencer, on December 09 2012 - 11:29 AM, said:

I've been piloting 80% of the time an Scout in CB3 and I'm not gonna agree with your opinions. Would be cool if you post what chassis you were piloting whilst fighting against that Scout.. I find the heat of the mini-flak to be fine and the Flak cannon compensates its high Damage Per Second by its.. rate of fire. The Assault has an ability to counter that well, not to mention the one for the Bruiser. guided weapons eat them alive.. in a way which I don't find to be very balanced, I've to say.. Well.. keep it going guys; I'm out for today.

Piloted Infiltrator in CB3. Can you elaborate on the miniflak-flak comparison_ I don't really understand what you were saying.

No   Kidding.. the guys have ellaborated on that already. Personally, other than slightly and softly (you notice the bolds_) nerfing the miniflak... tsk. Let's see what they do with this chassis in 2 days...

Edited by The_Silencer, December 10 2012 - 01:23 PM.

[DM30]

The_Silencer, on December 10 2012 - 01:23 PM, said:

Personally, other than slightly and softly (you notice the bolds_) nerfing the miniflak... tsk.

+1 to the slightly and softly. Most of my personal (minor) complaints from CB3 were from over-zealous "balancing" from the previous beta. Going into open beta, I hope to see more smaller changes rather than a few big ones.

Edited by DM30, December 10 2012 - 02:31 PM.