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#1 Elix

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Posted December 12 2012 - 05:37 PM

Important disclaimer: This post is strictly my opinion and is not officially approved or authorized by either Adhesive Games or Meteor Entertainment. This post is not forum policy. Furthermore, I am not a moderator or in any other way affiliated with either company. Special thanks to Hugs for pinning this post in the General Discussion forum.

Welcome to HAWKEN!

Hawken is now available on Steam in Early Access, and many new players are discovering the game. Many of you reading this are probably newcomers. The Hawken forums have been running for a while now, and a core community of alpha and beta testers have formed around it. Now it's on Steam, and things are continuing to progress and change. It's important for us to maintain the tone of the community in order to keep things going in the right direction, and so I've put this post together with some of the core values and ways of doing things that have kept the forum running smoothly in the past. I would appreciate input from other veteran community members, and I certainly welcome input from the community and from everyone at Adhesive and Meteor as well.


TL;DR VERSION:
1) Be respectful to your fellow players, in-game and on the forums!
2) Read the rules! Follow them!
3) Use the search function!



Use your best judgement in posting.
Think about what you're going to post as a new thread or a reply. Ask yourself if you're contributing something constructive, or is it maybe better to just move on and leave well enough alone. Posting etiquette, and a number of unacceptable behaviours, are covered by the forum rules. If you haven't read them, you really, really should. Exercising posting discretion is key to the community. Sometimes it's better not to say anything for the sake of keeping the peace.


Feedback is important.
Hawken is in Open Beta. Adhesive is responsive to our feedback, and they rely on it to help them improve the game. While the devs may not have the time to reply to every post, they read the forum all the time. Together, the forum hive mind is sometimes much smarter than the small development team. However, just as you are free to give feedback on the game, it is important to respect that others will be doing the same thing. It is inappropriate to attack someone for offering feedback, even if it sounds ludicrous to you and you disagree with every word in the person's post, including "the," "and," and "but."

Regarding feedback, it's important to distinguish between constructive feedback and complaining. While it is natural to expect that a frustrated person will complain, complaints don't help the devs fix anything. Constructive feedback does. If you feel that an element of the game is unfair or not working the way it should from a gameplay perspective, the devs would like to hear your feedback. What you should not do is tell them how bad they are at their jobs. Instead, offer them calm, clear, and logical arguments as to why something needs to be changed, as this is information they can work with.

However, there is another element of the forum that ties into feedback and communication, and it can be confused with disrespect by newcomers.


Constructive criticism and debate happens.
This is a slightly tricky subject, because it's very easy for it to degrade into insults and conflict, and veteran forum members know what I'm talking about. It is, however, quite possible to have a mature and rational debate over a particular piece of feedback, or about various alternative solutions to a game mechanic or game element that people think needs to be changed. Expect other members to offer differing viewpoints to your ideas, but don't take it as a personal attack or a rejection of your ideas. If the poster is unreasonably hostile and rude or is making it a personal attack, then continue reading.


Respect each other and do not backseat mod.
This is critical. If you have not read the Hawken forum rules, or you do not know or remember them, read them. Seriously. If you didn't read them, you might be surprised to know that the following things are not allowed:
- Posting personally-identifiable information, even about yourself (e.g. your phone number)
- Posting about religion or politics (period)
- Using languages other than English to circumvent the rules against swearing
- Bumping threads

Please be respectful to your fellow users and any Adhesive or Meteor employee, whether it's one of the sound guys or a moderator. If someone is breaking the rules with a post or something on their profile, report them. Don't post about it in the thread, just report them. Every post, profile, and even deleted private message has the "report" button attached to it for a reason.

Calling someone out on what they're doing wrong is going to just create more conflict and drama in the thread and leave a bigger mess for the mods to clean up. You did read the rules, right_ You know that calling out users and creating drama is against the rules. Let the moderators be the Bad Cop and confront users on their rules violations. That's what they're there for. It is never appropriate to troll another user. It is never appropriate to insult or attack another user, especially if they are giving genuine feedback in good faith.


Anonymity is not an excuse.
On the Internet, everyone is just a bunch of screen names, right_ Not true. Everyone is a real person behind the screen. Think carefully about how your comments will be received, and remember that you are giving them to a real person. It isn't acceptable to go around trashing on peoples' feelings. Aggressive and trollish behaviour will see you removed from Hawken.


Do NOT, I repeat, DO NOT, feed the trolls!
Just don't. Report and let the thread die. Replying bumps the thread to the top and gives the troll more visibility and attention, and that is exactly what they want from you. Just stay clear like the troll thread was made out of evil unicorns that eat HAWKEN pilots. Hit back, close the tab, reach for the eject lever, but don't respond to trolls.


All of this applies in-game, too!
Apparently I have to say this, even though it should be clear. The rules of conduct don't change when you're in-game, and neither does this. You should treat your teammates and your opponents with respect. Don't be a fuzzybunny. Take things in good nature. Ignore smack talk. Don't let someone provoke your ego or pull your emotions into the game. If they do that, you've given them the power to spoil your fun and your game.


Try to find the positive in the situation. Or, how to deal with Hawken when it breaks.
The day I first posted this, Open Beta began, and it has not always been a smooth ride. This should not surprise anyone who's been paying attention to what "beta" actually means. (Thank you, Google, for ruining it with "in beta for years" on Gmail and everything.) When things are broken, it's frustrating and quite understandably so. However, one thing that concerned me is that the forum has sometimes turned into a big pile of nastiness and negativity, primarily focused on Hawken but also on Adhesive/Meteor staff (as a whole) when things go wrong. This isn't cool. I know that it's frustrating, but the devs can only work so fast and find and squash so many bugs before a deadline. I'm not being an apologist for the developers, mind you. Hawken has some major issues that need to be resolved before it's ready for prime time, for sure.

And earlier, I went on at length about how feedback is important. This is just as true when things break as when everything's running smoothly. But remember, you're dealing with human beings. We want a friendly and welcoming group here. Try and find positives as well as the negatives. Like I said in the previous section, use your discretion as to whether you actually should submit that reply or not. If your post is just negativity because you're frustrated at the game, and it doesn't add anything constructive to the thread, maybe you should reconsider hitting the submit button. If you have something constructive or useful to add, that's perfectly fine, but perhaps it might be best to check if it's worded too harshly or too negatively. We're human beings. We feel empathy, and we react on an emotional level to what we see around us. Please don't add to the black clouds over peoples' heads if you can avoid it..


Have fun!
Hawken is a game. Try not to take it too seriously, even if you're an esports pro. If you find yourself getting angry at something in-game or in the forums, you should probably do something else for a bit, because the game is failing to be entertainment for whatever reason. Come back later, hopefully things will be better. If you're angry because someone is trolling you in the forums, see above on what to do about them.


Use the search function!
I can't repeat this enough. The recurring story on the forums throughout all of Closed Beta (and surely alpha as well, though I wasn't here from the very beginning) is people asking questions to which the answers have already been posted. This entire post could just be "Use the search function" in very large red letters and I would consider it a success if it got through. The forum community could devolve into angry racist trolling, and if that angry racist trolling was conducted with proper use of the search function I would still consider it a net gain (sort of). Practically two thirds of my post count derives from finding the answers to someone's question from the last time the same question was asked.


Use the correct forum for the correct topic.
This is a matter of keeping the forums tidy. Please don't post a technical support question in the art section. Please don't post an announcement that you're recruiting for your new clan in the support section. Make sure that the topic you're about to make matches the forum you're about to post it in. The more often posts are made in completely the wrong places, the more often mods have to come in and move them. Help the community team keep the forums an orderly and tidy place by posting to the right area. And remember to use the search function.


Read pinned posts!
You would not believe how many questions people have asked when the answer was in a pinned thread in the exact forum they were posting in. Just like the search function, pinned posts are there for a reason. Don't ignore them.


Now with Hugs' stamp of approval!

[HWK]Hugs, on February 15 2013 - 06:30 PM, said:

I'll go ahead and officially endorse it. In triplicate, even!

Edited by Elix, April 29 2014 - 05:06 PM.


#2 Decoy101x

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Posted December 12 2012 - 05:42 PM

Bring in the love and the support. not everything is as bad as it seems
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#3 Necro

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Posted December 12 2012 - 05:43 PM

You forgot to mention using the search function.

#4 Leaders

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Posted December 12 2012 - 05:44 PM

A very well done and a very much needed thread. Thanks, Elix

#5 Cruelty_Sippian

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Posted December 12 2012 - 05:46 PM

Thank you for the thread Elix.

#6 SGRock

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Posted December 12 2012 - 06:03 PM

Please add an instruction to read signatures!!!
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#7 Elix

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Posted December 12 2012 - 06:15 PM

Read SGRock's signature whenever you want to know if there is breaking news.

There.
HAWKEN Community Values (updated!)

ETA for $feature_you_want to be added to Hawken Open Beta: Imminent™
See someone breaking the rules_ Don't reply, just hit Report. I am a player, not staff.
Drinking game: Check the daily stats. If I'm not the top, DRINK! (I'm joking!)

#8 Coot

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Posted December 12 2012 - 06:46 PM

When I saw the title/sticky I knew it had to be made by Elix ...

#9 Hugs_

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Posted December 12 2012 - 06:54 PM

This gives me all happy feels! We're just starting out here and we can't make HAWKEN as great as it can be without you. We are always listening. It makes it much easier for us to hear what you're saying when people are saying it in a respectful way. I love enthusiastic debate and invite everyone to feel free to be yourself!

Sincerity and maturity isn't the norm on teh interwebs, but we aren't normal are we_ We are better than that. You deserve more than common mindless trolling and idle cruelty. You can go find that sort of nonsense pretty much anywhere else.

I'm so amazed at how much you guys do everyday and your dedication to HAWKEN. You're why we're here and you're the reason we do it.

Let's get out there and shoot stuff together!
xxoo

#10 Coot

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Posted December 12 2012 - 07:58 PM

View Post[MTR]Hugs, on December 12 2012 - 06:54 PM, said:

This gives me all happy feels! We're just starting out here and we can't make HAWKEN as great as it can be without you. We are always listening. It makes it much easier for us to hear what you're saying when people are saying it in a respectful way. I love enthusiastic debate and invite everyone to feel free to be yourself!

Sincerity and maturity isn't the norm on teh interwebs, but we aren't normal are we_ We are better than that. You deserve more than common mindless trolling and idle cruelty. You can go find that sort of nonsense pretty much anywhere else.

I'm so amazed at how much you guys do everyday and your dedication to HAWKEN. You're why we're here and you're the reason we do it.

Let's get out there and shoot stuff together!

What did you do with Batgirl_!_! (you seemed to come when she left :P)

#11 Elix

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Posted December 12 2012 - 07:52 PM

View PostCoot, on December 12 2012 - 06:46 PM, said:

When I saw the title/sticky I knew it had to be made by Elix ...
...I went and double-checked that this hadn't been promoted to sticky when I read that.


View PostCoot, on December 12 2012 - 07:58 PM, said:

What did you do with Batgirl_!_! (you seemed to come when she left :P)
Hugs and Batgirl... never seen in the same room together... hmmmmmmm...
HAWKEN Community Values (updated!)

ETA for $feature_you_want to be added to Hawken Open Beta: Imminent™
See someone breaking the rules_ Don't reply, just hit Report. I am a player, not staff.
Drinking game: Check the daily stats. If I'm not the top, DRINK! (I'm joking!)

#12 Nahmu_Leafburner

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Posted December 12 2012 - 07:58 PM

Exactly what was needed, seemed like things were getting a bit too internetty around here right around noon today :P

#13 bacon_avenger

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Posted December 12 2012 - 09:14 PM

Sadly, Batgirl has left the building and has taken a gig with Microsoft (the traitor :P).

Or so her twitter shows

Edited by bacon_avenger, December 12 2012 - 09:14 PM.

(I don't mean to necro threads, I'm just almost always running behind.  My apologies)

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#14 RST_WildCat

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Posted December 12 2012 - 09:56 PM

Elix,

Very well said.  You can disagree with someone and still be respectful.

#15 Rotaken

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Posted December 13 2012 - 12:53 AM

I second Necro! You need to add the usage off

SEARCH FUNCTION

IN BIG RED LETTERS SO PEOPLE WILL GET TEH MESSAGE!!1!



#16 Turic

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Posted December 13 2012 - 12:17 AM


Elix, you are great)

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#17 Subdivision

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Posted December 14 2012 - 04:20 AM

Well spoken sir! Get that man a medal!

To the newbies joining us, we're all actually a pretty decent bunch of people on the most part and looking forward to welcoming you all into the community that has grown up around here over the past how-ever-many months its been now! The game currently has a lot of teething problems but that is why it is in beta and we're all here to give constructive feedback as much as possible. If you have problems, please tell us all so we can help each other. Elaborate on what is troubling you so we can best help. Many issues new players get can be solved through understanding the game and environment you have entered into which us vet's are more keenly aware of. Chances are many issues can be solved with some advice from us so please use us for assistance.

When leaving feedback for the dev's, give as much detail as you have time for. Explaining what is happening can only be helpful, even if everything is broken. If it is, make a list and give it some thought too. Taking a few minutes out to really say something will be a hundred times more rewarding in the long run and means we don't have long threads of back-and-forth trying to find out what the problems really are. Everybody knows there are problems and nobody will shoot you down for saying so but understand the community is strong willed and if you come into our community posting how you hate the game currently, we can't do anything to help you with that and will more often than not get defensive. We can't help it if we love the game still. We've seen it good and bad so bare with the Hawken team. They are very good at listening to us all but we have to say something to them first!

I truly hope this thread gets the attention it deserves and even if its just a handful of new comers, I'll be happy.

Above all else, enjoy yourselves and respect your fellow gamers, even if they are less than amicable. Have fun and good luck all!

Edited by Subdivision, December 14 2012 - 04:20 AM.

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#18 andythebomb

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Posted December 15 2012 - 05:09 AM

Why is this not a sticky_

#19 Ein0r

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Posted December 15 2012 - 06:08 AM

As long as the mods around here (i hope there are some here ^^) wont let this forum/community drift into a LoL Style community everything will be fine ;P

#20 bacon_avenger

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Posted December 19 2012 - 02:07 AM

Elix, this should be expanded to cover matches as well.  I've run into more than a few people in a match who were making less than sporting comments about their team or just generally being unpleasant.  I really do think that Wheaton's Law should be mentioned.

For those who are not aware of this (I'm 90% sure than anyone who has been to PAX, especially PAX Prime, knows this one), it's from Will Wheaton from his 2007 keynote at PAX Prime.  What is the law_  Well, from http://en.wikipedia....Wheaton.27s_law

Quote

During his keynote speech at the 2007 PAX (Penny Arcade Expo), Wheaton made a note about sportsmanship when playing games online. It has since become known as Wheaton's rule or law, which states "Don't be a d**k!"

If you want to see the end of the keynote that spawned this, see www.youtube.com/watch_v=TK-H0epcfoQ (the NSFW part is at the end).

Words to live by IMO, in everyday life and in the game.

(I don't mean to necro threads, I'm just almost always running behind.  My apologies)

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