62 replies to this topic

[NZXT_NightRaven]

EOC sucks, is broken as it is and thats all there is to it. It will ether change or be abandoned/used by barely ANYONE. Honestly, how many times have you been killed by an EOC_ I have played enough matches to say i have been through hundreds and i have only been killed by it about 2 or 3 times, mainly in my rookie days and I have only killed about 1 or 2 people with it like...ever. It's not skill it requires, it just sucks! It's work it requires! Work by the devs! OP's idea would make it vastly better.

Edited by NZXT_NightRaven, January 25 2013 - 06:43 PM.

[KaszaWspraju]

NZXT_NightRaven, on January 25 2013 - 06:41 PM, said:

EOC sucks, is broken as it is and thats all there is to it. It will ether change or be abandoned/used by barely ANYONE. Honestly, how many times have you been killed by an EOC_ I have played enough matches to say i have been through hundreds and i have only been killed by it about 2 or 3 times, mainly in my rookie days. It's not skill it requires, it just sucks! OP's idea would make it vastly better.

lol , no, long: noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

This weapon is great for the "Nuke" dude ! EOC GL and HE , puffffff A-Class is dead.

[ShadowWarg]

KaszaWspraju, on January 25 2013 - 06:44 PM, said:

NZXT_NightRaven, on January 25 2013 - 06:41 PM, said:

EOC sucks, is broken as it is and thats all there is to it. It will ether change or be abandoned/used by barely ANYONE. Honestly, how many times have you been killed by an EOC_ I have played enough matches to say i have been through hundreds and i have only been killed by it about 2 or 3 times, mainly in my rookie days. It's not skill it requires, it just sucks! OP's idea would make it vastly better.

lol , no, long: noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

This weapon is great for the "Nuke" dude ! EOC GL and HE , puffffff A-Class is dead.

Okay, but what about B-class_ (C-class is basically a walking target for the EOC )
Old proverb, if you can't kill them in the first attempt......I forget the rest but I know its not good, lol.

Edited by ShadowWarg, January 27 2013 - 03:34 PM.

[DESMO]

KaszaWspraju, on January 25 2013 - 06:44 PM, said:

NZXT_NightRaven, on January 25 2013 - 06:41 PM, said:

EOC sucks, is broken as it is and thats all there is to it. It will ether change or be abandoned/used by barely ANYONE. Honestly, how many times have you been killed by an EOC_ I have played enough matches to say i have been through hundreds and i have only been killed by it about 2 or 3 times, mainly in my rookie days. It's not skill it requires, it just sucks! OP's idea would make it vastly better.

lol , no, long: noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo.

This weapon is great for the "Nuke" dude ! EOC GL and HE , puffffff A-Class is dead.

KaszaWspraju is right.  If you buff the EOC any more it will make the infiltrator completely insane in its ambush role - which would make me happy since infiltrator is my favorite mech - but it wouldn't be right.  I've been using the EOC on the rocketeer and having a lot of success, but as Conquistador mentioned it still requires a lot of skill, particularly against skilled opponents.  What should be done_

I return to the OP's conclusion: identity.  The EOC is in fact the most unique and coolest looking weapon in the Hawken arsenal.  I propose having 2 version of the EOC; similar to the SA-Hawkins and the Hawkins-RPR.  This way the Infililtrator and Rocketeer could both have a weapon from the EOC family properly balanced for their chassis and play styles.  I don't really care how the differences are implemented, but for example the mini-EOC could have better firing speed while the big-EOC could have superior mine-laying capabilities. Or (if you want to make rocketeers really happy) increase the max charge on the big-EOC to 12 pucks.  Crazy_  Crazy!!!!  It's just a suggestion, but I think it would make the EOC look even cooler, I think, while giving the rocketeer a buff without having to touch seekers..

Hmmm, you'd think Juodvarnis would have posted in here by now..

Edit: fixed name spelling.  sorry m8..

Edited by DESMO, January 28 2013 - 01:14 AM.

[Juodvarnis]

DESMO, on January 27 2013 - 09:35 PM, said:

Hmmm, you'd think Judovarnis would have posted in here by now..

It's Juodvarnis.
I didn't post anything here, because even though EOC is one of my favorite weapons both aesthetically and functionally, I simply have no idea how to improve it, without making it literally the best weapon in the game.

But given some thought, in my honest opinion, i think giving it larger AOE and higher proximity radius would make it's function as a sticky mine launcher much more useful (increasing the amount of time the pucks/mines actually stay on the battlefield would help a lot too)

Other way, i see is increasing it's projectile speed and making it more like a burst fire HEAT cannon, because at the moment, the HEAT cannon outperforms the EOC in a lot of aspects, except when fighting new players (EOC is one of the best weapons fighting new players who don't know how to dodge, with hellfires being able to "Two-shot"  B-classes is pretty crazy)

Edited by Juodvarnis, January 28 2013 - 12:08 AM.

[Dew]

I've actually been playing EoC Inf almost exclusively past couple days, and I'm coming to really love the weapon. I can see why the mines require contact to detonate. If they had a detonation radius of even a few meters it would be ridiculously easy to land 6-puck shots on people.

In any case, the weapon only has merit if you are literally the most patient person in the world. I was using it to fair success in a server populated with some respectable BSB members. When I'm using the EOC, I walk everywhere. Zero unnecessary boosting. To this end I also take every walk speed buff available to me, not that most people don't already anyway. Keep a low profile and keep the weapon charged. Spamming uncharged shots actually generates quite a bit less heat than repeatedly firing full charges, but I still use charged shots almost exclusively, because its landing big surprise damage and staying out of the line of fire until you can do it again that makes this weapon shine. Wait until after people dodge and then drop a six-puck and GL on them. Using your special ability to flank and dropping a six-puck, GL, and Detonator on an unsuspecting target is scary as hell. A subtle offense while being sneaky and playing defensively when the enemy knows you're there are absolutely required. You cannot be super aggressive with the EOC. Subtlety, foresight, and predicting enemy movement is everything.

Even though it is a challenge to use, I currently wouldn't say I want the EOC to change much, except for the sole possibility of a projectile speed buff. It is a highly unique and challenging weapon that I find loads of fun to use against new and experienced players alike.

That said, you're still probably going to lose against a HEAT user with this weapon, but then again who isn't_ The more I play against HEAT Scouts that just faceroll with little effort, the more I think it's broken and in need of a major nerf in some way.

[SilentJacket]

EOC needs to have a longer mine laying duration, and perhaps a more intimidating firing sound

often times, damage is associated with the sound it makes when fired so subconsciously, if it has a weak sound, it will always appear more underpowered than it actually is.

[Dew]

Uh. No. I don't want my stealth weapon to be louder, thanks.

Mine duration won't really help either, though I guess it can't hurt. The vast majority of my damage is direct hits, not laying traps.

[ShadowWarg]

Dew, on January 28 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

I've actually been playing EoC Inf almost exclusively past couple days, and I'm coming to really love the weapon. I can see why the mines require contact to detonate. If they had a detonation radius of even a few meters it would be ridiculously easy to land 6-puck shots on people.

I have as well and I agree its enjoyable, but still say it needs some from of tweaks. Taking your detonation argument for an example, I was playing a game with the EOC and fire some pucks that stuck right on the wall. The guy I was shooting at was literally riding the wall where I shot the pucks, but they did nothing. He moved away and the pucks exploded a second or so later, making it all pointless (Luckily someone saved my butt). Also if your lucky and someone is over the cluster of pucks when they go off, they will get hid the "6-puck shot" explosion anyway.

While on the subject of the option to improving the Mine feature (vs increasing the speed), I could see the EOC as a much more versatile weapon rivaling the HEAT if it was improved. While the HEAT focuses mainly on splash damage, the EOC could be used more for traps. Someone taking cover_ Lay down some mines in front of where they would pop out. Someone retreating_ lay down some mines in their path. I can't say it would be OP because they do such little damage on their own (like chipping damage), but its enough to help (Also explosion weapons do less damage the further you are away from the blast radius, so upping the blast radius is a valid improvement IMO as well). You think this would be common tactics for EOC users already, but the mines just don't work (or work well enough) to execute and create advance strategies, or even basic strategies for that matter like the ones I just mentioned.

Dew, on January 28 2013 - 08:57 AM, said:

Even though it is a challenge to use, I currently wouldn't say I want the EOC to change much, except for the sole possibility of a projectile speed buff. It is a highly unique and challenging weapon that I find loads of fun to use against new and experienced players alike.

Agree with the new, NOT so much with the experienced (especially fellow A-class players).

As a side note, I don't think a majority of people likes the idea of NERFing the HEAT (I don't use it personally).

Edited by ShadowWarg, January 28 2013 - 08:13 PM.

[LongForeignMan]

I am currently grinding my Infil, and am looking forward to trying the EOC when I finally hit 25.
Yesterday I was getting smashed by a guy in a 25 infil with EOC, and I asked him for any tips.
He (and a few other EOC users I have spoken to) admit that the HEAT is better for pure killing/duelling, but prefer the EOC for  pleasure value.
His tip was basic: prompt the enemy into boosting left or right with a grenade, then load them with pucks from the EOC when they stop. Also he seemed able to lead moving and flying targets quite well, which he put down to practice.

I look forward to see how I go about adapting to the EOC, and am interested how future patches will adjust it.
For adjust it they will my friends, ADJUST IT THEY WILL. *queue intense stare and awkward silence*

ps. I also think the mine aspect is a bit strange and lacking in terms of timing, AOE and damage. That is the aspect I would change, but how...

[Frenotx]

I'd really prefer to see the projectile speed buffed. In its current state, direct hits on a skilled opponent is extremely unreliable. Due to the slow projectile speed, and thus the large amount of leading required, your opponent has a long time to make the minor amount of change to their movement that's needed to avoid your leading.

[Juodvarnis]

Frenotx, on January 29 2013 - 06:26 AM, said:

I'd really prefer to see the projectile speed buffed. In its current state, direct hits on a skilled opponent is extremely unreliable. Due to the slow projectile speed, and thus the large amount of leading required, your opponent has a long time to make the minor amount of change to their movement that's needed to avoid your leading.

That is true.

In my honest opinion, increasing the projectile speed is the most logical choice, at the moment.

[_Hex_]

Juodvarnis, on January 29 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

Frenotx, on January 29 2013 - 06:26 AM, said:

I'd really prefer to see the projectile speed buffed. In its current state, direct hits on a skilled opponent is extremely unreliable. Due to the slow projectile speed, and thus the large amount of leading required, your opponent has a long time to make the minor amount of change to their movement that's needed to avoid your leading.

That is true.

In my honest opinion, increasing the projectile speed is the most COMPETITION FRIENDLY choice, at the moment.

Fixed lulz

[Juodvarnis]

_Hex_, on January 29 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:

Juodvarnis, on January 29 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

Frenotx, on January 29 2013 - 06:26 AM, said:

I'd really prefer to see the projectile speed buffed. In its current state, direct hits on a skilled opponent is extremely unreliable. Due to the slow projectile speed, and thus the large amount of leading required, your opponent has a long time to make the minor amount of change to their movement that's needed to avoid your leading.

That is true.

In my honest opinion, increasing the projectile speed is the most COMPETITION FRIENDLY choice, at the moment.

Fixed lulz

[ShadowWarg]

Today, I fought against Conquistador... He kicked my butt with the EOC.

[Sylhiri]

ShadowWarg, on January 29 2013 - 10:39 PM, said:

Today, I fought against Conquistador... He kicked my butt with the EOC.

Oh_ Interesting.

[Conquistador]

ShadowWarg, on January 29 2013 - 10:39 PM, said:

Today, I fought against Conquistador... He kicked my butt with the EOC.

I remember you! You were one of only two people who managed to kill me that round. Good on you, haha.

Sylhiri, on January 29 2013 - 10:41 PM, said:

ShadowWarg, on January 29 2013 - 10:39 PM, said:

Today, I fought against Conquistador... He kicked my butt with the EOC.

Oh_ Interesting.

I still need to duel you! You're probably better than me. EOC Battle. C:

Edited by Conquistador, January 29 2013 - 10:50 PM.

[Sylhiri]

Conquistador, on January 29 2013 - 10:46 PM, said:

I still need to duel you! You're probably better than me. C:

I'm still practicing, fight nonsiccus XD

[ShadowWarg]

Conquistador, on January 29 2013 - 10:46 PM, said:

ShadowWarg, on January 29 2013 - 10:39 PM, said:

Today, I fought against Conquistador... He kicked my butt with the EOC.

I remember you! You were one of only two people who managed to kill me that round. Good on you, haha.

Sylhiri, on January 29 2013 - 10:41 PM, said:

ShadowWarg, on January 29 2013 - 10:39 PM, said:

Today, I fought against Conquistador... He kicked my butt with the EOC.

Oh_ Interesting.

I still need to duel you! You're probably better than me. C:

lol I don't know about that. In an EOC duel, I would probably lose.

[Sylhiri]

What does it say about the weapon if you can name all the people that regularly use it with relative ease. Lol