78 replies to this topic

[draco7891]

Currently, Power Shot is MASSIVELY overpowered. By my rough calculations, a Sabot shot alone under the influence of the ability can do ~250 damage. This is laser-accurate hitscan damage. This is far beyond any other secondary and makes Sharpshooter incredibly powerful at all ranges and in all circumstances. Worse, there is no skill or technique to avoid the shot, as with other secondaries; you pop your mech out of cover for an instant and you are struck. This ability currently gives a single Sharpshooter the ability to nearly OHK an A-class, and 2 Sharpshooters working together to nearly OHK a C-class. The only counter is to snipe first, and that turns the whole world into snipers (which is boring and silly).

Proposal:

Change the Sharpshooter ability to one that gives bonus damage % based on the range of the shot. Make the ability last a substantial amount of time, with a long cooldown. Reduce the base damage of the Sharpshooter's weapons. Reward Sharpshooters that work in their long-range support niche, while removing the capability to work at all ranges all the time as is currently the case.

Also, consider making the Sabot a projectile-based secondary. Add in a little skill to using the weapon, bring it more in line with every other secondary in the game, and turn the Sharpshooter into the high-skill/high-reward platform it should be (instead of the camping du jour).

Draco

Edited by draco7891, January 26 2013 - 12:43 PM.

[Dread_Lord_Pitr]

I agree it's overpowered, i've even expressed my shock at it to [ADH]Hughes, but your suggestion to reduce base damage makes me want to strangle you with a length of piano wire, as i remember how bad it was last time the Devs nerfed the SS.
And i find your suggestion of making the Sabot a projectile weapon downright nauseating as the SS is hard enough to play as hitscan, let alone if we now also have to start leading targets even more to compensate for projectile travel time.
So as much as i agree it's new ability is a bit too much as it stands, i refuse to back your proposal...
Sorry !

Edited by Dread_Lord_Pitr, January 25 2013 - 11:48 PM.

[draco7891]

You'll recall that pre-CB3 nerf, the SS was in exactly the same postion: overly effective at all ranges. The solution taken at that time was simply to nerf the SS at all ranges, and therefore made it overall ineffective.

Currently, the SS enjoys a hitscan secondary, and the Slug is capable of AR-level DPS and total damage, with cross-map accuracy. The Sabot has even had a slight shot damage increase in the Reaper patch. This has again, combined with the new ability, made the SS too effective at all ranges.

My solution is to make the SS ineffective at short to mid range (where CQC and/or midrange fighters should reign), and instead give SS's an ability that makes them highly effective at long ranges. Yes, base damage would go down, but ability-augmented damage for long-range shots will still be at, or even slightly above current unaugmented damage values.

This gives the SS its niche without making it uber-effective and displacing other mechs.

Draco

Edited by draco7891, January 25 2013 - 11:53 PM.

[Dread_Lord_Pitr]

Yes, and then people like me who like to provide proper long range backup (which is, as you already stated, the SS's main bread and butter) can get snuck up on by even an A-Class trying to 'take out that annoying SS sniping from across the map', and with the damage nerf, can only try to run, as we don't have the DPS to kill the guy 1 on 1, and fail because the A-Class outdoes us in speed, and die...
Which is exactly what happened in the CBE3 nerf, and i see no need to repeat that BS again.

The SS was fine with the damage amp, and it was fine with the damage it could deal before this patch; let them reset it to that and then stop fuzzy bunny with it (unles something else upsets the balance factors!).
Problem solved, the SS will be fine at it's intended role and still able to fend off solitary attackers up close, without being too much.

[Dread_Lord_Pitr]

double post fo shizzle

Edited by Dread_Lord_Pitr, January 26 2013 - 12:02 AM.

[Juodvarnis]

Make it have "Reverse drop-off"
The closer you are the less damage it does.

[draco7891]

Dread_Lord_Pitr, on January 26 2013 - 12:01 AM, said:

Yes, and then people like me who like to provide proper long range backup (which is, as you already stated, the SS's main bread and butter) can get snuck up on by even an A-Class trying to 'take out that annoying SS sniping from across the map', and with the damage nerf, can only try to run, as we don't have the DPS to kill the guy 1 on 1, and fail because the A-Class outdoes us in speed, and die...

*ahem*

HE Charge, Detonator, MG Turret, Rocket Turret, EMP, Health Charge, Portable Scanner; none of these items can be equipped or are usable by a Sharpshooter.

Similarly, paying attention to radar, bringing friends, picking good perches, maintaining situational awareness; none of these are effective strategies.

Clearly, SS should be just as effective at 15m as it is at 150m.  This is clearly the only way the mech can remain viable.

Draco

PS: <sarcasm EMP deployed>

Edited by draco7891, January 26 2013 - 12:13 AM.

[Dread_Lord_Pitr]

Juodvarnis, on January 26 2013 - 12:02 AM, said:

Make it have "Reverse drop-off"
The closer you are the less damage it does.

The ability, or the SS in general_
If the ability, i will say fine by me; keeps the intended role as long range support, and makes it more fair up close.
If the entire Mech, then i say HELL NO.

[Juodvarnis]

Dread_Lord_Pitr, on January 26 2013 - 12:12 AM, said:

Juodvarnis, on January 26 2013 - 12:02 AM, said:

Make it have "Reverse drop-off"
The closer you are the less damage it does.

The ability, or the SS in general_
If the ability, i will say fine by me; keeps the intended role as long range support, and makes it more fair up close.
If the entire Mech, then i say HELL NO.

I meant the ability, for example, At point blank it would do slightly less damage, so it wouldn't be a "Panic button" for every SS out there. Instead it would increase damage based on the distance, at very long distances the current bonus seems fine, but at medium range it would deal maybe 20% more damage AT MOST

[Dread_Lord_Pitr]

draco7891, on January 26 2013 - 12:12 AM, said:

*ahem*

HE Charge, Detonator, MG Turret, Rocket Turret, EMP, Health Charge, Portable Scanner; none of these items can be equipped or are usable by a Sharpshooter.

Yes, because if you've been supporting your team, there isn't even the slightest chance your items and/or ability are cooling down.

draco7891, on January 26 2013 - 12:12 AM, said:

Similarly, paying attention to radar, bringing friends, picking good perches, maintaining situational awareness; none of these are effective strategies.

Yes, because it is impossible for an A-class to stealthily get behind an SS, they are simply always seen, even if cloaked.
And it also isn't possible the enemy teams mounts a full-on assault and your 'backup' is indisposed/dead.
Nor can the enemy team hit you on elevated perches; everyone knows only the SS can aim up and down.

draco7891, on January 26 2013 - 12:12 AM, said:

Clearly, SS should be just as effective at 15m as it is at 150m.  This is the only way the mech can remain viable.

Draco

PS: <sarcasm EMP deployed>

All it needs to be able to do is defend itself enough to have a fighting chance.
I don't need to be able to oneshot anything, or be able to massively overpowerer anyone who gets near me, but it'd be nice if i could still defend my ass if the need arises, instead of going back to CBE3 where a sharpshooter was basically a sitting duck for anyone smart or fast enough to get to him.

Anti sarcasm-EMP Battery charge used, power restored; counter sarcasm EMP away !

[Dread_Lord_Pitr]

Juodvarnis, on January 26 2013 - 12:15 AM, said:

Dread_Lord_Pitr, on January 26 2013 - 12:12 AM, said:

Juodvarnis, on January 26 2013 - 12:02 AM, said:

Make it have "Reverse drop-off"
The closer you are the less damage it does.

The ability, or the SS in general_
If the ability, i will say fine by me; keeps the intended role as long range support, and makes it more fair up close.
If the entire Mech, then i say HELL NO.

I meant the ability, for example, At point blank it would do slightly less damage, so it wouldn't be a "Panic button" for every SS out there. Instead it would increase damage based on the distance, at very long distances the current bonus seems fine, but at medium range it would deal maybe 20% more damage AT MOST

I'd be perfectly fine with that, even if it only boosted 10% at close range i'd be A-OK with that.
As long as i can use it as intended for long range and still have some semblance of a fighting chance with just the weapons, i'll be fine.

[draco7891]

I'm not going to engage in speculating about the manifold strategic possibilities that may occur in the course of gameplay. The point is, there are methods, tools and techniques available that provide a snuck-up-upon SS the capability to stand its ground, in the absence of straight weapon damage.

Draco

<MG turret of Truth deployed>

[Dread_Lord_Pitr]

Then you shouldn't have tried to argue about them in the first place Draco...
Fact remains that in a situation where items are not available for whatever reason, one should be able to stand their ground within reason.
Nerf the SS's weapons and it loses that option, and then needs to be compensated somehow, otherwise it becomes fairly useless for anything but organised matches, and with those still pretty far away (and not an option for people who don't want to do the whole clan dance thing)...
Besides, on things like Siege and Missile it's use is already severely limited.
With a nerf you may as well remove it from the game or merge it with the Reaper somehow.

[Juodvarnis]

Dread Lord, you should really understand that a mech that is meant for long range combat and at the moment is THE BEST mech for that, should NOT be able to kill anything in close quarters. If he gets ambushed, or snuck up on by a mech that specializes in close combat (and so is pretty much useless at long range) he DESERVES to die. It's called situational awareness.

Sharpshooter should sacrifice close quarter proficiency for long range. But at the moment (if the person can aim) the mech is just as good close quarters as it is long range.

[kernelmode]

Don't you mind adding a poll_ )

[Dread_Lord_Pitr]

Well then how about we nerf the Rocketeer as well then _ it has medium to long range purposes, let's have it's damage drop of exponentially at closer distances and in CQC.
And let's finally nerf the AR so it can't be used for the kind of range SS operates at as well, because it has no business doing such accurate damage over such range, that's the SS's territory.

My point here : no single Mech in this game caters to one exact purpose currently, they just excell at something.


Just to make it clear once again : YES, i agree the new ability coupled with the SABOT buff makes it INSANELY OVERPOWERED.
So have them reset it to how it was, don't once again fuzzy bunny up this Mech by nerfing it to kingdom come; don't let this degrade into the fuzzy bunny for tat nerfwar that happened with games like BF:BC2 where every time something got nerfed something else had to be nerfed in response, leading to what amounted to fanboy assisted suicide for that game.


As for 'situational awarenes', it means being constantly aware of your surroundings and how combat evolves.
It doesn't really account for the human element of focussing on a task and getting caught off guard.
And since this game is an FPS that caters to several audiences and not a combat simulation catered to stat counting, number crunching  sim twits, i don't see how making it so that one has to be a literal expert, just to be able to play one class of Mech even remotely makes sense.

Edited by Dread_Lord_Pitr, January 26 2013 - 01:29 AM.

[draco7891]

Dread_Lord_Pitr, on January 26 2013 - 01:18 AM, said:

Well then how about we nerf the Rocketeer as well then _

Projectile weapons. Already balanced. Make the Sabot projectile-based.

Dread_Lord_Pitr, on January 26 2013 - 01:18 AM, said:

And let's finally nerf the AR so it can't be used for the kind of range SS operates at as well

Could never be used at SS ranges, especially not now post-patch. Already balanced.

Dread_Lord_Pitr, on January 26 2013 - 01:18 AM, said:

My point here : no single Mech in this game caters to one exact purpose currently, they just excell at something.

So SS should excel at CQCing with a Scout. And delivering extreme damage at long ranges. And it should fuzzy bunny rainbows and sneeze candy corn.

Dread_Lord_Pitr, on January 26 2013 - 01:18 AM, said:

Just to make it clear once again : YES, i agree the new ability coupled with the SABOT buff makes it INSANELY OVERPOWERED.
So have them reset it to how it was,

It was highly effective pre-patch as well. A CQC Slug SS could put down serious damage in very short order, thanks to accuracy and hitscan. When things got hot, a quick boost out and a 180* would put you in ideal sniping position outside of any heavy weapons.

Dread_Lord_Pitr, on January 26 2013 - 01:18 AM, said:

As for 'situational awarenes', it means being constantly aware of your surroundings and how combat evolves.
It doesn't really account for the human element of focussing on a task and getting caught off guard.

Multi-task or die.

Draco

[Juodvarnis]

Dread_Lord_Pitr, on January 26 2013 - 01:18 AM, said:

Well then how about we nerf the Rocketeer as well then _ it has medium to long range purposes, let's have it's damage drop of exponentially at closer distances and in CQC.

[Dread_Lord_Pitr]

draco7891, on January 26 2013 - 01:35 AM, said:

Projectile weapons. Already balanced. Make the Sabot projectile-based.

It looks to me like you just want to nerf this class because you don't have enough 'situational awareness' to realise you should dodge for cover when being shot from outside of your Mech's ideal range.
Either that or you just want to CQC all day.

draco7891, on January 26 2013 - 01:35 AM, said:

Could never be used at SS ranges, especially not now post-patch. Already balanced.

There are plenty of example videos of it doing SS range shooting on Youtube and Twitch, i suggest you have a look.
As for it having been balanced in the patch, i highly doubt it considering i am still shooting people halfway across the bloody maps with it, with more than average succes rates.

draco7891, on January 26 2013 - 01:35 AM, said:

So SS should excel at CQCing with a Scout. And delivering extreme damage at long ranges. And it should fuzzy bunny rainbows and sneeze candy corn.

Am i really going to have to repeat myself here _
I guess i am ; it needs to have at least a semblance of a fighting chance for it to be fair.
Nerf it back to CBE3 and you remove that, making the class the first and only Mech stuck in one specific role.
That you don't see a problem with that makes me feel like you just want the SS to be gone.

draco7891, on January 26 2013 - 01:35 AM, said:

It was highly effective pre-patch as well. A CQC Slug SS could put down serious damage in very short order, thanks to accuracy and hitscan. When things got hot, a quick boost out and a 180* would put you in ideal sniping position outside of any heavy weapons.

Because opponents can't chase you, circle you, can't shoot up or down, can't shoot a TOW over a ledge/around corners and then detonate it, nor can the grenade launchers be fired up and over or bounced off walls to go behind a corner, nor can the HE/Detonator do that...
So much for situational awareness on your side, i suppose _

draco7891, on January 26 2013 - 01:35 AM, said:

Multi-task or die.

Draco

Edited by Dread_Lord_Pitr, January 26 2013 - 02:05 AM.

[Dread_Lord_Pitr]

Juodvarnis, on January 26 2013 - 01:44 AM, said:

Dread_Lord_Pitr, on January 26 2013 - 01:18 AM, said:

Well then how about we nerf the Rocketeer as well then _ it has medium to long range purposes, let's have it's damage drop of exponentially at closer distances and in CQC.

Only SRS if you are as well, so, yeah...