109 replies to this topic

[Countrygal]

The_Silencer, on July 01 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

Well,
going back on topic I'd like to share the following statement. I've played with several girls in the game and in my opinion they do not have anything to envy to any of male pilots in the Hawken community. Whilst certain of these pilots were playing like machines without sharing a word during the games, other girl pilots were talking nicely and also were excepcionally good team players during all the game I played with her/them.

I've not seen many using the standard VO/IP system in the game though. But I strongly encourage you all ladies playing this game to do it. Being just a matter of setting your mic and volume levels up and checking on whether everything is fine with some other pals in the game I don't see any difference nor where is the problem in that.

snippedi

I think the reason why I don´t use the mic in Hawken is, honestly, because I´m afraid of my spoken english not because of the reasons I wrote above
I´m good into following instructions and everyone who will meet me in a game can be sure that I listen well (if something is spoken).
When I write english I have a dictionary beside me and time to think over what I want to say, but in voice channel there is no such time and I mostly can´t say what I want before the situation is gone.

I think I have not to prove that I am really a girl, playing games, which is an incredible mysterium ( ) and I purposely joined a mixed clan ( mixed seems to much because I´m the only girl) The guys of BV know my wunderfull voice.

You guys should not doubt the reason of each other if someone defends women or not or if someone is a sexist or not. Everyone has it´s very own perspective which is maybe misunderstood by another.  I´m an opponent of sexism but I am also an opponent of unhealthy feminism, but we are here to play hawken, not to fight out individual opinions and point of views.

[RedVan]

AsianJoyKiller, on July 02 2013 - 01:42 AM, said:

RedVan, on July 01 2013 - 07:56 PM, said:

Which stone we casting now_  Restowned or hestoned_  Either way, it's sure to hurt when it hits.

Don't forget Omnistone_
Getting hit by that would hurt all over.

Get it_ Because "omni" means "all"_ So you'd be getting hit by all the stones or a stone that hits everything, so you end up getting hit all over_ Get it_ Huh_ Huh_ Funny right guys_
...
Isn't if funny_
...
Hey... where'd everyone go_

omnistone = restowned, but I c wut u did none the less

[damnitDave]

well ladies there you have it: join up with the guys who defend sexism on the regular and bash others addressing it. congrats to the passive aggressive gentle man with the bondage lady in his sig

Edited by damnitDave, July 02 2013 - 06:45 AM.

[RedVan]

damnitDave, on July 02 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:

well ladies there you have it: join up with the guys who defend sexism on the regular and bash others addressing it. congrats to the passive aggressive gentle man with the bondage lady in his sig

That ain't no bondage lady, that's AJK on a green hair day

[AsianJoyKiller]

damnitDave, on July 02 2013 - 06:43 AM, said:

well ladies there you have it: join up with the guys who defend sexism on the regular and bash others addressing it. congrats to the passive aggressive gentle man with the bondage lady in his sig

Actually I'm not defending sexism.
Please don't argue using false dichotomy fallacies and try to poison the well to make me look like a monster. Just because I condemn your use of stereotypes and insults, that does not mean I'm supporting misogynistic attitudes and marginalizing women.

Also, you may want to try and educate yourself on what makes something "bondage", because anybody even slightly aware of what it is knows that a leather hat, some fingerless gloves and a gun don't even come close to being bondage. Hell, that's closer to cosplay than bondage.
And do realize that bondage itself favors no gender and is not an inherently sexist activity. Nor is it some sort of evil thing. It requires a great deal of trust from a partner.

Countrygal, on July 02 2013 - 02:19 AM, said:

You guys should not doubt the reason of each other if someone defends women or not or if someone is a sexist or not. Everyone has it´s very own perspective which is maybe misunderstood by another.  I´m an opponent of sexism but I am also an opponent of unhealthy feminism, but we are here to play hawken, not to fight out individual opinions and point of views.

I'm not doubting anybody's reasons.
I am however condemning damnitdave's use of stereotypes, lies and insults to "defend" women because it's unethical and rude. He has gone so far as to violate the rules he agreed to follow when he joined Hawken. Dave is barely defending women, and more of what he's doing means that he's attacking and putting down others, often based on stereotypes.

[RedVan]

So long as I, a late 20's Caucasian male, can take advantage of affermative action, I don't care if you stereotype me.

[The_Silencer]

@Countrygal: Think in that you have a good chance to improve your spoken English skills whilst playing games online. As everytning in this life, it's all about practice.

[Countrygal]

I know this! But I ignored this fact successfully in the past I´m such a shy person *nose growing*

[AsianJoyKiller]

Countrygal, on July 02 2013 - 10:08 PM, said:

I know this! But I ignored this fact successfully in the past I´m such a shy person *nose growing*

I used to be in a clan with various European/UK/Russian/etc. people.
Most of the time I understood the Russians more easily than the Brits...

Edited by AsianJoyKiller, July 02 2013 - 10:16 PM.

[OdinTheWise]

AsianJoyKiller, on July 02 2013 - 10:16 PM, said:

Countrygal, on July 02 2013 - 10:08 PM, said:

I know this! But I ignored this fact successfully in the past I´m such a shy person *nose growing*

I used to be in a clan with various European/UK/Russian/etc. people.
Most of the time I understood the Russians more easily than the Brits...

I feel very comfortable about the Aussie accents. Lord only knows how many hours I have spent gaming with those lovely people. My eve online clan some how was Aussie.

[Countrygal]

I love english spoken accents. I don´t know what the word is for, but I´m very addicted in some peoples voices. But this secondary because of offtopic.

[Nataq]

I think if there was an all male clan it would be considered sexist because its only sexist when men do it...

[Countrygal]

*gives a grin*  yeah, that could be, many girls won´t to be excluded from something. We are too curious too look from the outside

Edited by Countrygal, July 02 2013 - 11:51 PM.

[Nataq]

Here are some facts, women ARE NOT excluded from gaming, no1 is actively trying to stop women from playing games, they are welcome to do it anytime they want. BUT games are made by men for men, because men are MUCH more interested in games. We have no obligation of making women welcome in gaming, same way women have no obligation making men welcome in their "girls magazines". If women want games cater to them, then those women should just start making games that would suit them, instead of trying to force and sexism shame devs to cater to their needs. But women will never make games for other women, why_ Because it would be a financial failure, because women audience is so small any game for women would fail. And its easier to try to force male devs to take this risc, instead of taking it themselves. First women must actualy start liking games, instead of using them as a tool to get attention from males... "look at me! im a gurl gamer!".

Woman have a right to join a community and be a part of it
Woman have no right to demand entire comunity to change to cater to her selfish needs at the expense of community.

Edited by Nataq, July 03 2013 - 12:07 AM.

[Countrygal]

But... when we start making games... who will cook supper for you_ You would never wear socks which fits together and your tie knot will look awfully. Who will bring your beer and your chipsbags while you watch football or baseball on the couch_
We take care of you, that´s why we don´t mess up the mens world

[Nataq]

Countrygal, on July 03 2013 - 12:02 AM, said:

But... when we start making games... who will cook supper for you_ You would never wear socks which fits together and your tie knot will look awfully. Who will bring your beer and your chipsbags while you watch football or baseball on the couch_
We take care of you, that´s why we don´t mess up the mens world

nope

[Countrygal]

Maybe I should think about my inside man... he´s much more present when it comes up with games... or cars... or weapons...
This might be the problem why I can´t identify myself with all-girls-things


edit: Ahh.. I forget what I wanted to say, Nataq ^^

As your words sounds rude, in the first look, I totally understand that they are really facts. Every woman who wants to believe else is blind (sorry women ;-D) Gaming is still a mens world, the numbers shows it, and when it comes up with competitive games, the cleft is big. But nevertheless, some of us are here. Some try to change games into a "female thing" and some take them like they are, with all the manly power in it
I think most of the girls can handle this when they want to join up and when they want to join up in female groups, that´s okay for me too. Most sports are seperated by gender, but I, for myself, do not force this. But the gaming itself should NOT be seperated by gender, because on this ground we can competitive on an equal footing where corporality or physics do not count in the same way like in other sports.

On the other side there is no need for girls to sit still in silence. Pronouncing to be a gamer girl doesn´t mean that we think we´re something special. There is no need for hiding our gender and we don´t want to have attention for THIS, but what should we do... lying_ Hiding ourselves because a gamer man could think that we want some attention_ That would be ridiciulous.

Edited by Countrygal, July 03 2013 - 01:07 AM.

[Siamenis]

For the sake of maintaining a friendly environment, the following should be considered as a general idea of gaming world, not as a direct accusation to any person on this thread or this community in general.


This is fast becoming a topic of my interests. As Countrygal nicely put, gaming world has been so far men's ground, but I believe we are witnessing a gradual change in the equal representativness of gender in gaming, which is a good thing. The idea that there should be an all female clan tells me that we are still pretty far from gender equality in games. Ask yourselves: why do the women (or any gender type, for that matter),  feel the need to unite as a group in such an environment_ What circumstances drive such ideas_ Answers to these questions are numerous, and I don't pretend I know the right ones. However, I can speculate it is because when women reveal their gender in such environment, they are met with discriminatory, humiliating, while sometimes also with extremely "positive" response. Simply put, they are met with a different attitude than would be, if they didn't reveal their gender. At this point we should ask ourselves as to why this happens. Again, my view on that is that by "coming out", women/men challenge male/female supremacy of whatever is considered to be an area where men/women are supposedly better than opposite gender. By showing they can be as good or even better in that area, they start to shake conceived ideas that there is something only men/women will be really good at and therefore challenging that genders' self worth. Mind you, this "worth" stems from an apparently inherent (which is arguable) tendency to differentiate ourselves on a number of aspects, gender being one of them.

So, to conclude this, I'm saying that certain groups of people that share a certain aspect (gender, religion, ethnicity, and so on) unite so they would have a better chance to be heard, accepted and be considered as an equal subjects in whatever areas of human action. Their chances to achieve that are much greater as a group than as individuals.

That is all,

[AsianJoyKiller]

Nataq, on July 02 2013 - 11:57 PM, said:

If women want games cater to them, then those women should just start making games that would suit them, instead of trying to force and sexism shame devs to cater to their needs.

This is of course ignoring the gigantic hurdles that face women in the industry, especially in larger studios and publishers. Gender politics play a huge roll there and can make it harder for women to advance to a position where they have that sort of influence.

Quote

But women will never make games for other women, why_ Because it would be a financial failure, because women audience is so small any game for women would fail. And its easier to try to force male devs to take this risc, instead of taking it themselves. First women must actualy start liking games, instead of using them as a tool to get attention from males... "look at me! im a gurl gamer!".

The female audience makes up about half of all gamers. The problem isn't whether or not you can make a game aimed towards women and have it be financially viable. That part is easy and perfectly viable.
It only gets tricky when you try to create a female-oriented game in a male dominated genre. Even making it properly gender-nuetral can be difficult.

And the problem certainly isn't "women must start liking games". Why would someone bother to start liking something that's not appealing to them_ That's just insane logic. That's like saying in order for romance films to start being more appealing to men in general, men must start liking all the girly stuff they don't enjoy about those films.

Making mainstream games that appeal both to men and women is something that must come from within the industry first. Women aren't at fault here, they shouldn't have to play and learn to like games that marginalize, sexualize and otherwise indicate they are inferior, in order to spearhead change.
No, it's the industry that needs to do the changing and adapting. The industry needs to stop being a boys club and needs to start realizing that if they start treating women equally as both customers and elements of games, not only will they start on the path to major financial gain, but that the videogame industry would take major steps towards becoming a "serious" form of entertainment to the masses.

[Poetess]

Nataq, on July 02 2013 - 11:57 PM, said:

Woman have a right to join a community and be a part of it
Woman have no right to demand entire comunity to change to cater to her selfish needs at the expense of community.

Much of your post looks like it was crafted to purposefully push buttons.  You make several sweeping generalizations and odd assumptions.  The fact that you even cap it out by referring to a woman's supposed "selfish" needs makes it even more obvious.  I'll just put in my two cents anyway just for the fun of it.

Growing up, I was an avid reader and loved that I could follow the tale of someone completely different than myself.  Gaming fascinates me the same way as it is an amazing escapist form of entertainment.  Why would I want to play something that is made to "suit" me when I want to take on a different persona to begin with_

The problem in the game world is not the games themselves but the barriers being put up around them.  Developers witness those barriers and perhaps think, "Hmmm, why should we bother to put in this interesting female lead_ Let's water her personality down, make her extra busty, and turn her into a side character.  That'll ring in the guys!"  The fact of the matter is, I've realized many of those barriers are put up by a vocal minority.  Quite a few people would opt for a character with the complicated personality as opposed to the hollow eye candy one.

I believe women play games for the same reason.  It's not to be looked at or to use as "a tool to get attention from males."  It's to be a part of the adventure.

*awaits Nataq's one word answer*

Edited by Poetess, July 03 2013 - 11:46 PM.