91 replies to this topic

[nokari]

ScarletThirteen, on November 21 2013 - 10:09 AM, said:

That's me misreading information again, then...

I've never really seen the Techie in tournament-level (2000+ MMR) team play, but at least for mid-high (say, 1700 to 2000 MMR) skill players on public servers, most teams seem to do better with one Techie, no more, no less.

The Tech has been patched within the past few months to adjust some things that made it a little less deadly. Beforehand, it wasn't uncommon to see 2 Techs in upper tier matches, usually at least one of them taking MVP or next to MVP.
I haven't played Tech in any matches for months, so I'm not sure how it works now.

[OmegaNull]

The scout with its resent health nerf makes it a bit tough

[Aregon]

OmegaNull, on December 18 2013 - 09:24 AM, said:

The scout with its resent health nerf makes it a bit tough

You forgot </sarcasm>

[Condor2010]

I voted Scout, although my criticism applies to several of the A-class mechs.  Basically, the light mechs have too much firepower relative to heavier mechs. The tradeoff for the agility and speed of these small mechs should be a reduced capacity for heavy weapons. A scout-type mech simply should not be a front-line combat mech, that is not its role. It should excel at recon & intel missions, stealthy deep-penetration missions, or rescue & extraction missions in lightly defended territory. But it should not be able to hold its own in face-to-face combat up against B or C class mechs in a deathmatch-type situation.

But the developers don't (yet) seem to have developed the varied mission types or roles that are really suited to the abilities and limitations that should apply to a light mech.  They just made everything a combat mech, and then buff or nerf a bit here and there for balance in direct combat.  We need more varied mission types that let the scouts and other A-class mechs shine in areas other than direct combat.  Just thinking out of my ass, maybe some kind of mission where two teams have to search a large area and find/retrieve a valuable object, gather data on enemy defenses, or rescue and evacuate a downed pilot.  Something where you have to cover a lot of ground in a limited amount of time, or get in and out fast.  Something that gives light mechs an appropriate, mission-oriented role.

Enough rambling from this grumpy old man...

[iLaFantoma]

Tech.

Either enables zergs and a steamroll, or facilitates a 10 min stalemate.

Makes the game SO boring if there's techs in the match.

[nokari]

iLaFantoma, on February 15 2014 - 07:42 PM, said:

Tech.

Either enables zergs and a steamroll, or facilitates a 10 min stalemate.

Makes the game SO boring if there's techs in the match.

Techs are easy to kill and not very effective in a 1v1. If they're healing someone, you focus on killing the Tech, not the guy they're healing. As soon as they're gone, the enemy team is down a man and loses their advantage.

Edited by nokari, February 16 2014 - 12:55 PM.

[iLaFantoma]

nokari, on February 16 2014 - 12:54 PM, said:

Techs are easy to kill and not very effective in a 1v1. If they're healing someone, you focus on killing the Tech, not the guy they're healing. As soon as they're gone, the enemy team is down a man and loses their advantage.

Yeah if you catch one on his own, which is rarer than a cactus flowering. I've played enough TF2 to know that you kill the Medic/Tech first. What I'm saying is that the Tech is almost always right in the middle of an enemy zerg, because the enemy players are scared to move away from the Tech incase they lose their on demand heals and die, so getting to the Tech is nigh on impossible sometimes. The Medic works in TF2 because of the uber, which helps clear our tough positions and sentry nests. The Tech in Hawken (while basically the same thing as the Medic, just without invuln) doesn't do that. All it does it turn the game into a merry-go-round while the enemy zerg smashes the ever loving fuzzy bunny out the other team and both teams just circle the map for 10 mins and 90% of the losing team rage quits.

"Oh but you don't complain when there's a tech on your team". Yeah I do, it's boring. I can just be totally brainless and not think about my engagements and just bundle in which a Tech strapped to my ass and come out on top.

I'm a very offensive and flanking minded player, and the way Tech just turns games into a complete stalemate sometimes really annoys me.

Edited by iLaFantoma, February 17 2014 - 01:00 PM.

[nokari]

iLaFantoma, on February 17 2014 - 12:58 PM, said:

Yeah if you catch one on his own, which is rarer than a cactus flowering. I've played enough TF2 to know that you kill the Medic/Tech first. What I'm saying is that the Tech is almost always right in the middle of an enemy zerg, because they're scared to move away from him incase they lose their on demand heals and die, so getting to the Tech is nigh on impossible sometimes. The Medic works in TF2 because of the uber, which helps clear our tough positions and sentry nests. The Tech in Hawken (while basically the same thing as the Medic, just without invuln) doesn't do that. All it does it turn the game into a merry-go-round while the enemy zerg smashes the ever loving fuzzy bunny out the other team and both teams just circle the map for 10 mins and 90% of the losing team rage quits.

That's BS. The majority of fights I see are not death balls (they're not called zergs...). It is not that hard to kill Techs and death balls do not happen all the time nor do they happen in every game mode. Techs are as squishy as any other A-class and more vulnerable as they tend to ignore those around them and focus on aiming their heal beam. It's common sense though that if the enemy groups up into a death ball, you match them with overpowering force or coordinated flanking, which is completely regardless of whether any Techs are involved. If you don't, you're most likely to lose no matter what your team is made of.
If you think you can only take them out when they're alone, then your thinking is very wrong. If you do manage to catch one alone, being able to kill them easily only supports my point.

Quote

"Oh but you don't complain when there's a tech on your team". Yeah I do, it's boring. I can just be totally brainless and not think about my engagements and just bundle in which a Tech strapped to my ass and come out on top.

There are two sides to every coin man. You can either be effective with a Tech, or you can get your arse handed to you. You can't win them all with a Tech. If you think this is what always ends up happening, then that's some selective memory. Try playing a bunch of games in the high MMR range and see how things go.

Edited by nokari, February 17 2014 - 01:19 PM.

[iLaFantoma]

You're boring.

[Spliff_Craven]

We currently have no overpowered mechs.
Just underpowered Armour...

Here... Have a Beta card:

After all... "It's only Beta"

We just have to deal with it and accept what we cannot change.

[Baddman]

still really new to game. but man, my first run-in with the brawler seemed more so in his favor compared to my encounters against other mechs.

i was using the bruiser (ithink, the one with the lock on and dmg mitigate feat.) i had the jump on him from the back, only got off a very few primary rounds and no secondary before he turned around (he was already in the tranformed sheild mode) so i hit my feat. which is a sheild of sorts. what amount it mitigates im not up on but the point is i had the drop on him, he was in combat with another who ran so he was not full HP and my bruiser was full HP and buffed and he really tore me down quicker then any other mech has face to face.

i got something for'em next time tho

[Kirbychwan]

Scouts (with flak) are very powerful, especially in the hands of an excellent player. It's the closest I'd say to being overpowered as an individual mech, because I seeing a single scout taking down two C-class with relative ease isn't uncommon. The sheer amount of power matched with unmatchable speed can make it impossible to counter at times.

Sharpshooters and Reapers I would not call overpowered; they heavily depend on teamwork backing them up and proper positioning to be effective. Claustrophobic hallways and close quarters are a nightmare. The instant anybody gets close to them, they're at a huge disadvantage and extremely easy to kill. Heavies, ambushers and extremely fast moving mechs provide an easy counter for them.

But in my experience, Techs are usually the mechs can heavily influence the direction of an entire match. This is fine, but the main problem is that there are not enough effective counters to a team using a Tech... except another team using a Tech. Even as a sharpshooter it can be extremely difficult to single out and take out an opposing Tech so that your team can have a chance. Close range is not an real option for facing them because they tend to stay in the middle of the pack or behind C-classes. Items can completely negate their only real weaknesses. Regardless of the low armor, they are remarkable resillent unless they are completely alone, which is rare.

Edited by Kirbychwan, March 14 2014 - 03:47 PM.

[Granddaddypurp]

The scout is not overpowered.... The scout is yes very tactical an can kill people within a minute. But the scout is so weak it can't hold for more than that minute. especially if you gettem good right from the start.

[RadimentriX]

scout with air compressor and miniflak is OP. just takes a few seconds (not a minute) to kill a brawler with full health.

[eth0]

Voted reaper for too helpful ability.

[Toothdok]

The scout would be fine if either 1) their special ability weren't so overpowered or 2) if their weapons were toned down a lot.  I've never seen anyone but good scout players get twice the score of anyone else in an 6v6.

I have a couple ideas:

1) Make dodging cost 4 times as much fuel once they activate the special or block dodging all together.
2) Replace their burst primaries with continuous fire weapons like those of the Assault.

I thinking change their special is the best. That one is really overpowered as it is.

Edited by Toothdok, March 25 2014 - 07:07 AM.

[XyXly]

I'VE PLAYED SCOUT

YOU AREN'T READY FOR SCOUT

THE THINGS I'VE SEEN

THE THINGS I'VE DONE

SON, SCOUT IS NOT OVERPOWERED

ONLY GREAT SCOUT PILOTS STICK WITH THE SCOUT

Edited by XyXly, March 22 2014 - 11:11 AM.

[RoughRide]

Them sharpshooters... always busting me down before I can take a shot at them.

No matter how much health I have, sharpshooter weapons always seem to take it down in an instant.

200~ health to 0 health in 4 seconds, thanks to a sharpshooter.

[FoxyKabam]

scout

_I_

[Hellrazer_001]

Not only didnt the Predator make it into the Poll, after 4 pages no one even mentioned it, see that DEVS Predator needs a buff