94 replies to this topic

[Rajhin]

Houruck, on August 28 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

Most of the haters here I know from the game are avowedly not team players, and this is a 2 VS 2 event. But I am still open for constructive suggestions. Even about the date Starrphy.

You can read a suggestion in a post #15

Edited by Rajhin, August 28 2013 - 12:37 PM.

[Saturnine]

FakeName, on August 28 2013 - 11:19 AM, said:

Bleeh war with rules ... Even though I like the fightclub, well the streams, I hate rules like these:

- No this ...
- No that ...
- You are not allowed to ...

It simply destroys powerful tactics.

I don't actually understand this line of reasoning, personally. Would you prefer to see a bunch of players all using the exact same few things_ You can be powerful and have very enjoyable fights, both for the players and for the viewers if you encourage diversity of choice, rather than seeing a hundred EOC infiltrators all using shields or whatever. It is much more interesting to place these limitations on the participants for all sorts of reasons.

oo_olio_oo, on August 28 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

so everyone is picking flak/ heat scout or bolt32 raider_ lulz
maybe someone is creative enough with brawler or grenadier m/

Similar thought process applies here. You are vastly underestimating what people will choose to do with the rules in place. Sure you'll see Scouts, Raiders, Brawlers and Grenadiers... And then you'll see Reapers and Rocketeers, Vanguards and maybe even Bruisers! You're reducing the outcome of using such rules to a point of absurdity, and it doesn't really apply in the reality of the situation. These Fight Clubs are for fun, not for using SUPER ULTIMATE TACTICS LAWL where you see the same damn thing over and over again, it's boring as hell. Even if the absolute worst case scenario happens, and we get what you describe here. Great! That's a victory! Because we'll be seeing a lot more choice in mechs and in items than we would without any rules. Therefore, we have a much better and more interesting event as a result.

Rajhin, on August 28 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

So that event will be just for flak (some hipsters may take a heat, but its unlikely) scouts with det/healing orb_ All rivals of this definetly highskill combo are neatly removed.

I think you'll be quite surprised at what people will actually turn up to use in events like these. It's not nearly so clear cut as this. Again; this isn't a tournament with thousands of dollars on the line - it's people meeting together to have some fun!

Basically, I'm surprised at all this backlash against the rules here. A few molehills are actually Mt. Everest, if I'm to take what I'm seeing here at face value. Similar rules have been applied to US Fight Clubs for weeks and weeks, and many more rules were applied in the Fight Club and Post Apocalypse Tournaments - where were all the people complaining then_

These rules are not restrictive in the least. If you think shields should be allowed in 2v2s like this, I implore you, please find me a match where two teams of two players both put shields on eachother, and then had an interesting fight. Or maybe one team doesn't do this, and show me how interesting a fight they have against their opposing team who did do this.

Maybe show me how cool it was when a team of sharpshooters power shot an enemy team of A class mechs, bringing them down to a little over 100 health at the beginning of the fight. I'm sure that particular fight was a real nail-biter.

Really. These rules are absolutely reasonable. Instead of jumping to the conclusion that these rules that explicitly are increasing match diversity will result in less, relax and see what this event is for what it is - A community event set up to have some fun. You're kidding yourself if you think that these couple of rules are legitimately limiting anyone to pick just one thing. If someone decides that the only choice available to them with these rules is to run the most overpowered thing they can think of still within the rules - then they are completely missing the point of this event, and are cheating themselves of a lot of the enjoyment available here by taking things so seriously.

Tl;dr: If you're having rule problems I feel bad for you son, I got 99 problems but a shield ain't one.

Edited by Saturnine, August 28 2013 - 12:51 PM.

[Fantus_Longhorn]

With regards to the rules: these are put in place because experience says that their presence makes for a lousy game. Bear in mind that the EU Fight Club may be fairly young but the US one isn't and we're able to pick up on a lot of things that they've already been through.

Shields are no fun in small 1v1/2v2 matches. They just create a stalemate where everyone just sits in a bubble not shooting or waiting for a bubble to pop. Countermeasures are out because they are specifically designed to negate the actions of the opposing player, it's the entire point of them. The effects of this aren't always seen in larger games but can become very apparent in a 1v1 and can have far to big an impact on a match-up without any consequences for the person using them.
And, lastly, Sharpshooter and EOC are out because of Alpha Strikes. That's no fun for the person up against it. Feel free to use that as much as you want elsewhere but we'd like to encourage people to try something else. The awesome moments in Fight Club don't come from the one-hit kills; they come from the ridiculous Hellfire shots (yes, there is skill to be found in Hellfire's), the fluke ricochet grenade kills or that fight where you're both on 5 health and anything could kill you.

Anyway, that's my take on it...

[DerMax]

Does anyone want to pair up with me_ :3

[Houruck]

Rajhin, on August 28 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

Houruck, on August 28 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

Most of the haters here I know from the game are avowedly not team players, and this is a 2 VS 2 event. But I am still open for constructive suggestions. Even about the date Starrphy.

You can read a suggestion in a post #15

I agree these rules might be too much, especially compared to the previous EU events. The current US Fight Club only exludes the use of shields. But you say we should ban even more loadouts_ I can imagine the reaction to that after this.

Edit: Just look at that happy skull in the logo guys. ^^
Having fun is a key factor in Fight Club!

I am also against unnecessary restrictions in other, well balanced games. There is no need to ban a weapon or an item in Warsow, which is a polished competitive game.

DerMax, on August 28 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

Does anyone want to pair up with me_ :3

If I can play I would be happy to team up with you.

Edited by Houruck, August 29 2013 - 01:00 AM.

[Rajhin]

Saturnine, on August 28 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

I think you'll be quite surprised at what people will actually turn up to use in events like these. It's not nearly so clear cut as this. Again; this isn't a tournament with thousands of dollars on the line - it's people meeting together to have some fun!

There is a little error in your logic.
If that people's spirits is strong enough to ignore the one and by far  most powerful loadout permitted by this rules then there is no need in any prohibitions at all! Everyone will play vulcan bruisers with H.E. because it is fun!

Houruck, on August 28 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

I agree these rules might be too much, especially compared to the previous EU events. The current US Fight Club only exludes the use of shields. But you say we should ban even more loadouts_ I can imagine the reaction to that after this.

You have started it, you should bring it to a conclusion. Current version of rules is worse that no rules at all.

Edited by Rajhin, August 28 2013 - 01:29 PM.

[DeVact]

REALLY happy about the rules. The usual games on live were getting boring to a point where I was thinking of creating an event on my own (would have called it "F**k the META event") with pretty much the same restrictions.
Definitely in on this one!

EDIT:

Saturnine, on August 28 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

Basically, I'm surprised at all this backlash against the rules here. A few molehills are actually Mt. Everest, if I'm to take what I'm seeing here at face value. Similar rules have been applied to US Fight Clubs for weeks and weeks, and many more rules were applied in the Fight Club and Post Apocalypse Tournaments - where were all the people complaining then_

Well, I don't know if it's just me but there happens to be a lot more nitpicking on this side of the pond. I think it's a cultural thingie...

Edited by DeVact, August 28 2013 - 01:24 PM.

[Fantus_Longhorn]

Rajhin, on August 28 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

Fantus_Longhorn, on August 28 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

I think you'll be quite surprised at what people will actually turn up to use in events like these. It's not nearly so clear cut as this. Again; this isn't a tournament with thousands of dollars on the line - it's people meeting together to have some fun!

There is a little error in your logic.
If that people's spirits is strong enough to ignore the one and by far  most powerful loadout permitted by this rules then there is no need in any prohibitions at all! Everyone will play vulcan bruisers with H.E. because it is fun!

I'm not sure how this got attributed to me as it was Saturnine who wrote that

[DaPheel]

C'mon people - this event is just for fun, and this is just to test things out.

Can't we save the debate on the ethics of what weapons and mechs are allowed for when we have a competative 2v2 tournament_

Lets just have a few friendly games and test things out for now. We can always try out different things as we do more fight clubs - we may find combos that are a little broken, or that others are not as O.P. as we expected. We can try out things like only allowing 1 of each mech type, or only 1 each from A,B, or C class!

[TheEliteSlayer]

DeVact, on August 28 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

REALLY happy about the rules. The usual games on live were getting boring to a point where I was thinking of creating an event on my own (would have called it "F**k the META event") with pretty much the same restrictions.
Definitely in on this one!

But the meta is all they know,  they would be lost without their cheap tricks haha. Even poor Houruck has a twitchy shield finger

[Houruck]

TheEliteSlayer, on August 28 2013 - 01:25 PM, said:

Even poor Houruck has a twitchy shield finger

Tell me about it. When I first played against a group of organised people using the current shield to it's full potential I was mad. I had to step in line to stand chance and now it is a second nature. But hence the title of the thread, there is a new hope in the patch!

Edited by Houruck, August 28 2013 - 11:25 PM.

[Rasti]

DerMax, on August 28 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

Does anyone want to pair up with me_ :3

Maybe.
Am slightly out of practice tho I have to admit.

Anyways, this constant 'whining' about Flak Scout is the only solution blah blah, EOC / Shield is fine blah blah and whatever is starting to really get on my nerves.
If you wanna play Flak Scout then play Flak Scout, if you wanna play Seeker Rocketeer then do it.
Just play and have fun, jesus, this is not a bloody 'fight with the most broken mech' or vice versa event - at least not yet.

Edit:
Sorry for accusing anyone of 'whining', but this constant complaining about everything just really p*sses me off.

Edited by Rasti, August 28 2013 - 01:48 PM.

[Saturnine]

Rajhin, on August 28 2013 - 01:04 PM, said:

Saturnine, on August 28 2013 - 12:45 PM, said:

I think you'll be quite surprised at what people will actually turn up to use in events like these. It's not nearly so clear cut as this. Again; this isn't a tournament with thousands of dollars on the line - it's people meeting together to have some fun!

There is a little error in your logic.
If that people's spirits is strong enough to ignore the one and by far  most powerful loadout permitted by this rules then there is no need in any prohibitions at all! Everyone will play vulcan bruisers with H.E. because it is fun!

What's actually really cool is that research indicates if there are any rules in place for something, people will tend to follow the spirit of the rules more than the letter, necessarily. If you have any doubt, I encourage you to watch the recordings of the US Fight Clubs, whether they are the weekly event or the tournament. I certainly don't see the same mechs over and over again as a result of people trying to push up against the limits of the rules. You may say that I am overestimating "people's spirits", but plenty of evidence shows me that I'm right on course, while you're underestimating peoples desire to not bore themselves to death.

[Houruck]

We tested 2 VS 2 without any rules with Hrono, DaPheel and Onebullit. We even tried less popular mechs like the Grenadier, Assault and Rocketeer. It was all about timing and attaching shields. We played on the ground floor of Origin which is quite an open space, but the team with the EOC Infiltrator still had the advantage.

Edited by Houruck, August 29 2013 - 06:04 AM.

[ReachH]

DerMax, on August 28 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

Does anyone want to pair up with me_ :3

k, lets do it. yolo

also @all the bicker-ers, pretty sure a coordinated inf brawler or reaper grenadier team could dump on any scout-scout pairing. But I am not so experienced in competitive 1v1 or 2v2, so whatever. This is the whole point, to see what happens in controlled competitive environments. To test skill and understanding of the game.

Edited by ReachH, August 29 2013 - 01:09 AM.

[ReachH]

so what map_

[DaPheel]

All of them, I think.....

[Houruck]

As DaPheel said. Since this is not a tournament it is unnecessary to waste time with the map rotation. We will choose the best place in each map like the Library in Uptown and so on.

[Deadmen_Tim]

Another Fight Club, good.

Speaking about rules - maybe we should just ban shields, and that's it.

And haters_ No, it's not about haters. Some guys just playing the game, some having problems with it. That simple. It's not a duty to be in the Fight Club. Everything can be changed, everything can be discussed in a civilized manner.

edit: i don't play a lot of Hawken these days, but huge chances i'll participate.

Edited by Deadmen_Tim, August 29 2013 - 05:36 AM.

[Houruck]

EU Fight Club would not be the same without Vodka People.
Maybe the term "haters" was a bit harsh, as some of their posts. Of course, no one is forcing anyone to join the Fight Club but my goal is to invite more people (not just the high MMR club) and have fun.

There is a Hungarian proverb: Pig slaughter is not violence (meaning the feast is not mandatory).

EDIT: I added a poll about the rules!

Edited by Houruck, August 29 2013 - 05:59 AM.