127 replies to this topic

[ReachH]

Crimson_Corsair, on September 13 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

Grizzled, on September 13 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

Death blossom, spins your mech in a circle auto targeting 1 shot to each enemy in LOS until heat runs out.

Seriously just wrote this to figure out who would get the reference. keep up the ideas!

Gotta love the last starfighter.

Item: Radar Decoy.
Similar in mechanics to the radar jammer, But puts a single wandering dot on the enemy's radar. Used to lure enemies in to a specific area.

I feel like that would be better served being a one slot item, rather than being a passive internal that is always be on.

Would add another level of repair cancelling dodges and psychology and stuff to 1v1s. Not sure if that isn't entirely gimmicky though.

Edited by ReachH, September 14 2013 - 07:08 PM.

[Crimson_Corsair]

ReachH, on September 14 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

Crimson_Corsair, on September 13 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

ITEM: Radar Decoy.
Similar in mechanics to the radar jammer, But puts a single wandering dot on the enemy's radar. Used to lure enemies in to a specific area.

I feel like that would be better served being a one slot item, rather than being a passive internal that is always be on.

Would add another level of repair cancelling dodges and psychology and stuff to 1v1s. Not sure if that isn't entirely gimmicky though.

I agree, I intended it to be an item.
I think it's more specialized than gimmicky though, It would be most useful for a frequent flanker who needs to set up a distraction, or part of an overall team strategy for setting up an ambush.

There have been a few occasions where I've purposefully shot my guns and boosted around to try to draw enemies either to or from a certain area.

[AsianJoyKiller]

ReachH, on September 14 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

Crimson_Corsair, on September 13 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

Grizzled, on September 13 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

Death blossom, spins your mech in a circle auto targeting 1 shot to each enemy in LOS until heat runs out.

Seriously just wrote this to figure out who would get the reference. keep up the ideas!

Gotta love the last starfighter.

Item: Radar Decoy.
Similar in mechanics to the radar jammer, But puts a single wandering dot on the enemy's radar. Used to lure enemies in to a specific area.

I feel like that would be better served being a one slot item, rather than being a passive internal that is always be on.

Would add another level of repair cancelling dodges and psychology and stuff to 1v1s. Not sure if that isn't entirely gimmicky though.

A sort of decoy grenade_ I love those sorts of things.

[ShadowWarg]

AsianJoyKiller, on September 14 2013 - 08:46 PM, said:

ReachH, on September 14 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

Crimson_Corsair, on September 13 2013 - 08:30 AM, said:

Grizzled, on September 13 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

Death blossom, spins your mech in a circle auto targeting 1 shot to each enemy in LOS until heat runs out.

Seriously just wrote this to figure out who would get the reference. keep up the ideas!

Gotta love the last starfighter.

Item: Radar Decoy.
Similar in mechanics to the radar jammer, But puts a single wandering dot on the enemy's radar. Used to lure enemies in to a specific area.

I feel like that would be better served being a one slot item, rather than being a passive internal that is always be on.

Would add another level of repair cancelling dodges and psychology and stuff to 1v1s. Not sure if that isn't entirely gimmicky though.

A sort of decoy grenade_ I love those sorts of things.

But what could it do that the radar scrambler doesn't do already...... except blow up_

[AsianJoyKiller]

ShadowWarg, on September 14 2013 - 09:28 PM, said:

But what could it do that the radar scrambler doesn't do already...... except blow up_

As it's not persistent, it could have a significantly shorter cooldown making it more flexible for spur of the moment distractions.
If it produces a single dot, it's also more likely to convince someone that it's the real deal, since have a bajillion dots on your radar instantly makes you aware there's a jammer around.
If it launches like a HE, you can toss it over things, bounce it off walls or do all sorts of other interesting things to get a decoy into advantageous positions and momentarily distract an enemy, getting them to look away from your approach.

[quaternionic]

Double Barrel
One pull of the trigger fires two projectiles in sequence.  Projectile cooldowns are increased by 2x.

Burst Jets
Jump height is increased by 3x.  You cannot hover.

Symbiotic Plating
You repair 1 armor/second for each friendly unit within 5m.

Armor Transfusor
Quickly transfers armor to any friendly mech within 20m that has less armor than you.  This ability cannot kill you.

Polymorphic Ordnance
You can fire on friendly mechs.  Weapons deal no damage to friendly mechs.  Instead, weapons apply 10% of the damage they would deal to friendly mechs as healing.

Jerry-rigged Injectors
Increases maximum boost speed to 120%.  Boost speed scales with remaining armor, down to a minimum of 50% at 1 armor.

Overdrift
Boosting costs no fuel, and you can fire your weapons while boosting.  When you spawn, you immediately begin boosting.  You cannot stop boosting.

Edited by quaternionic, September 14 2013 - 11:52 PM.

[Cloudstorm]

Good thread of discussion here, the only thing I would add is bring back the offensive internals. Some serious armour piercing ammo needed, the same with improved explosives. Obviously there needs to be a trade off, the more bite added the more of the new internals are excluded from your slots i.e. cannot have it both ways.

[ShadowWarg]

Internal name: Chamber Combuster
Effect: Increase projectile flight speed at the cost of increased heat generation

Internal name: Over Charge
Effect: Charge weapons receive a (x)% power boost on max charge. However charging the weapon for an extended period of time will cause it to back fire instead and damage your mech upon trigger release.

Internal name: Cluster Mine
Effect (EOC) Loads and fires all six pucks at once, coveting the weapon into a single shot gun. Greatly decrease the fire rate of the EOC.

Internal name: Burst Clip
Effect (Assault Rifle) Turns the Assault riffle into a 3 shot burst riffle.

Internal name: Heavy Mass Bullets
Effect (Sabot) Shot fired from the Sabot can pass through obstacles and mechs. The power needed to propel these bullets is massive and greatly increases heat generation.

Internal name: Silencer
Effect: Reduce or eliminates radar signature when firing primary weapons. The amount of reduction is determined by the weapons damage output (dps). Damage is reduced by a percentage.


Edit: Wish I knew just how many of these ideas are actually viable and have a chance seeing added to the game. Actually I wonder if the devs are even still looking at this_ And what are the chances of seeing the internals like Replenisher, Evasive Device, Fuel Converter, Armor Fusor, etc. completely removed (not soon but eventually)

This thread already has a number of ideas that would make better Items than internals, so maybe people should start posting items ideas as well, or maybe that should be a different thread. Would be nice if this thread was pinned as well.

Edited by ShadowWarg, September 15 2013 - 08:30 AM.

[Grogovich]

ShadowWarg, on September 15 2013 - 12:23 AM, said:

Edit: Wish I knew just how many of these ideas are actually viable and have a chance seeing added to the game. Actually I wonder if the devs are even still looking at this_ And what are the chances of seeing the internals like Replenisher, Evasive Device, Fuel Converter, Armor Fusor, etc. completely removed (not soon but eventually)

I can almost guarantee you that the Devs will look at this as a source of ideas. Do not expect them all to be implemented, and those that are in the same way described here. This thread is an awesome source of inspiration, which will be used to create the next gen internals

[Silverfire]

THREAD MUST STAY ALIVE!!

Item: Radar Jammer
Effect: Creates a radar jamming effect similar to the radar jamming effect found in Ace Combat 4's Blockade mission: (skip to about 1:45 to see effect), has effective range of x meters, TBD for balancing, radar jamming "ping" goes away after death.
Potential for Advanced Application: More psychological warfare and confusion. An entire team could create a sort of mini radar blackout, making pilots rely on audio and visual cues for battle.
Slots: 2

Still thinking!

[AsianJoyKiller]

God I miss the good Ace Combats.

[quaternionic]

f_error, on September 16 2013 - 03:43 AM, said:

Grogovich, on September 15 2013 - 03:51 AM, said:

I can almost guarantee you that the Devs will look at this as a source of ideas. Do not expect them all to be implemented, and those that are in the same way described here. This thread is an awesome source of inspiration, which will be used to create the next gen internals

"All"_ I sure hope they WONT implement all this stuff. If you combine all our suggestions from the bigger threads, you get a pretty good coverage of all possible permutations on stat effects. Just making that list and implementing it, is not game design. Choosing from that list, is a small first step. Its not like we can do their job, even if we want to ... sometimes.

Internals can be more than just permutations of stat effects, though.  As the OP said:

Quote

The purpose of this thread is to promote discussion and propose suggestions for Internals that would benefit Hawken by allowing the player to do different things in the game. Mere number modifications can only go so far.

Since there's no limit on new mechanics -- you could have an internal that lets you tunnel underground, or become an airplane, or cause people's CD-ROM drives to eject when you shoot them -- it seems useful to see a bunch of different ideas.

[Teljaxx]

Blink System:
Replaces dodging with short range teleports at the cost of much higher fuel consumption and cooldown. Incompatible with Air Compressor.

Targeting Network:
Shares your targeting data with teammates. They can see anyone on their radar that you have on your radar. Reduces radar detection range.

Catalytic Converter.
Swaps heat and fuel usage. Heat is now generated by boosting, and fuel is now used when firing. If you overheat from boosting, both your weapons and boosters will shut down.

Liquid coolant:
Overheating starts draining fuel instead of shutting down weapons. If fuel is completely drained while overheated, your weapons shut down, and your fuel will not regenerate until your heat is at zero.

Nano Amplifier:
Repair Orbs give you a temporary damage bonus, instead of healing you.

Incendiary Boosters:
Boosting and dodging causes a small increase in heat for any nearby enemies. Reduces cooling effectiveness.

Ground Sonar:
Radar can now detect any other mech on the map, as long as they are on the ground and moving. Does not work at all while you are in the air, and is not effected by Radar Jammers or Deployable Sensors.

Auxiliary Cavorite plating:
Reduces the weight of your mech, increasing maximum jump height, and reduces falling speed and aerial fuel usage. Reduces maximum armor by 10%, and crush damage by 30%.

Concussion Warheads:
Greatly increases the knockback effect of explosive weapons and items, but slightly reduces their damage as well.

Thermal Amplifier:
Increases all movement speed by 1%, and damage output by .5% for every 10% of your heat bar filled. Increases overheat recovery time.

[ShadowWarg]

lol have we exhausted all good ideas that sound like they would fit in Hawken_  I think its time for Xacius to make a new thread about new ideas for items.

Internal name: Turret Wall overwrite
Effect: places C mech Turret shields and applies damage reduction to the sides of C mechs.

Internal name: Distress Beacon
Effect: regularly pings the map (no audio or visual que) of your location while repairing to ally team members

Internal name: Demise Beacon
Effect: Pings the map (no audio or visual que) of your last location upon death to ally team members. (does not spot enemy players.)

Internal name: Friction Foot
Effect: Slows mech's falling decent while against a wall, resets ability to vertically ascend while hovering. Initial hover fuel cost (the amount of fuel required to start hovering) is doubled. (Basically a wall jump mechanic)

Internal name: Ice System
Effect: Mech lose friction and maintain x% of there momentum between movement while moving on the ground. (After boosting/dodging may cause skidding) This allows the pilot to make quicker movements on the battle field, however the mech will take longer to reach full running or boosting speeds when starting from low movement speeds, and pilots will not have as much control over there mech's movements. (think armored core and tribes) So crashing into walls or other mechs will cause you to lose momentum and become a much easier target to hit for a longer period of time compared to other mechs.

Internal name: Riot Sheild
Effect: A permanent frontal placed shield similar to C mech's turrent mode shield that reduces frontal damage by x% at the cost of reduced speed.

Internal name: Rail Gun Over charge
Effect: (Power Shot) Turns power shot into a toggle ability similar to C mech turret mode. While power shot is active and zoomed in, your damage is increased by x% but your mech's movements are locked (you are free to rotate 180 degrees) . Cool down and heat generation is increase. While power shot is active and NOT zoomed in your damage is increased by x% but your accuracy is reduced by x% and mech's movement stutter for a brief moment (you are free to rotate 180 degrees) . Cool down and heat generation is increase. Damage falloff is also increased.

Edited by ShadowWarg, September 16 2013 - 09:14 PM.

[Xacius]

quaternionic, on September 14 2013 - 11:25 PM, said:

Burst Jets
Jump height is increased by 3x.  You cannot hover.

Jerry-rigged Injectors
Increases maximum boost speed to 120%.  Boost speed scales with remaining armor, down to a minimum of 50% at 1 armor.

I love the Burst Jets idea.

[Xacius]

Teljaxx, on September 16 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

Blink System:
Replaces dodging with short range teleports at the cost of much higher fuel consumption and cooldown. Incompatible with Air Compressor.

Liquid coolant:
Overheating starts draining fuel instead of shutting down weapons. If fuel is completely drained while overheated, your weapons shut down, and your fuel will not regenerate until your heat is at zero.

Incendiary Boosters:
Boosting and dodging causes a small increase in heat for any nearby enemies. Reduces cooling effectiveness.

Auxiliary Cavorite plating:
Reduces the weight of your mech, increasing maximum jump height, and reduces falling speed and aerial fuel usage. Reduces maximum armor by 10%, and crush damage by 30%.

Thermal Amplifier:
Increases all movement speed by 1%, and damage output by .5% for every 10% of your heat bar filled. Increases overheat recovery time.

All of these are very cool.  I'd love to see them in play.

[ReachH]

Teljaxx, on September 16 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

Blink System:
Replaces dodging with short range teleports at the cost of much higher fuel consumption and cooldown. Incompatible with Air Compressor.

Targeting Network:
Shares your targeting data with teammates. They can see anyone on their radar that you have on your radar. Reduces radar detection range.

Catalytic Converter.
Swaps heat and fuel usage. Heat is now generated by boosting, and fuel is now used when firing. If you overheat from boosting, both your weapons and boosters will shut down.

Liquid coolant:
Overheating starts draining fuel instead of shutting down weapons. If fuel is completely drained while overheated, your weapons shut down, and your fuel will not regenerate until your heat is at zero.

Nano Amplifier:
Repair Orbs give you a temporary damage bonus, instead of healing you.

Incendiary Boosters:
Boosting and dodging causes a small increase in heat for any nearby enemies. Reduces cooling effectiveness.

Ground Sonar:
Radar can now detect any other mech on the map, as long as they are on the ground and moving. Does not work at all while you are in the air, and is not effected by Radar Jammers or Deployable Sensors.

Auxiliary Cavorite plating:
Reduces the weight of your mech, increasing maximum jump height, and reduces falling speed and aerial fuel usage. Reduces maximum armor by 10%, and crush damage by 30%.

Concussion Warheads:
Greatly increases the knockback effect of explosive weapons and items, but slightly reduces their damage as well.

Thermal Amplifier:
Increases all movement speed by 1%, and damage output by .5% for every 10% of your heat bar filled. Increases overheat recovery time.

I want blink. No logical reasoning, just so cool it needs to be in the game. Other things can be adjusted, its that cool.

I like the targeting data thing, it gives reason for coordinated team builds to use point men. I can envision more open map design with vision blockers, but where weapons like revgl can be combined with extended radar and front men to shell enemy locations. Its an interesting concept that could come more into play as competition and maps develop themselves.

The general idea of being able to link the heat and fuel mechanic is really good, could make for some interesting combinations going forward. This is one of the more complicated ideas, and will have to be thoroughly fleshed out before moving forward. likely a lot of work balancing to introduce these sorts of mechanics, but it could be worth it.

Ground sonar is also interesting, I feel it is a simpler, more powerful mechanic than the data thing. It would need to be tested, and I think chances are slim of it being viable, but it is interesting and different. The concept could be saved and implemented in different ways as well.

The repair orb damage bonus I didn't like at first, because it encourages snowballing effects, but then I thought about the possibility of combining with the heal charge item. Also sitting on health stacks is more common in pubs, and less common in organized scrims - although the snowballing effect is again a major factor. Worth testing, but I don't think it will be viable how the game currently is. It would be a major, game changing thing, and that sort of change is better suited to a universal change rather than an optional item. (We don't want options to be required, like the tech, etc. It's a rule of thumb for finding game breaking things imo, when optional things are necessary.)

linking heat to damage has been suggested before, and I think it has promise, as long as the dps values for both styles (purpose heat level management vs a stealthier burst of heat) are paid attention to.

Those were the ideas that warranted commenting on from that bunch I feel. Also, if I may suggest renaming the coolant thing to something with heat engines or pumps, just makes more sense imo

Edited by ReachH, September 16 2013 - 10:05 PM.

[ReachH]

BlackCephie, on September 12 2013 - 10:39 PM, said:

Internal name: Kinetic Driver
Effect: Increases the damage dealt by bullet-based weaponry over time, lowering the weapons base damage, but increasing its damage potential.
Potential for advanced technical application: This would reward dedicated bullet-weapon users who are able to stick to targets in skirmishes, and force pilots to be aggressive in skirmishes with weapons meant to be used in CQC scenarios i.e. the vulcan, smc, reflak.
Number of slots: 3

This I felt deserved special attention. I like the idea so much, I think it should be part of an overhaul of the non-sniper and non-vulcan trace weapons, rather than an internal.

The idea behind it, is that if combined with internals that grant bonus damage on heat up, it would redefine trace weapons from being joke-tier, to actually having a unique role.

[I envision mid ranged skirmishers, who coordinate with pointmen (flak scout or something) to engage the enemy. As the battle progresses, the damage bonuses force constant re positioning and dynamic play from both teams. The damage bonus should be sufficient to incentivize  players not to repeatedly peek-a-boo into an oncoming AR or smg equipped enemy, but to draw the battle out and play more hit and run (depending on the sort of backup available) - of course its important not to make the damage bonus overpowering that its noticeable in a short, direct engagement.]

If my mad ramblings don't make any sense, I apologize, its hard to pain an abstract picture of how I imagine it to work. Basically I like the idea because it adds more of a time factor to battles. It forces players to consider 'can I really afford engaging here, now' and 'how long will this battle last, what complications could there be ahead'_

[font=comic sans ms,cursive]If there is anything of mine that you read, READ THIS:[/font]

It's this sort of thinking that is most immersive, and identifies Hawken as a MECH FPS, where you feel like a pilot, rather than just another shooter, with robots, where you feel like a floating screen with a gun and a hitbox. It was this feeling that was lost when items were given a recharge rather than a charge, or radar scramblers were no longer common after CB.

Hawken should be a game, where a large portion of the players attention should be focused on things outside of the immediate enemy - cooldowns, positioning, team compositions, timings, objectives, what is the most efficient next action_ Because this is the most fun, most challenging, most engaging, most immersive, and most unique aspect of Hawken, that sets it apart. If the devs can nail down this sort of feel, it would justify the simplistic mechanics (when compared to hardcore shooters like Quake or CS), and make the game a viable competition, as well as FUN on a universally accessible level. (Of course a trace weapon overhaul won't accomplish that by itself, but it could be a big piece of the puzzle.)

Edited by ReachH, September 16 2013 - 10:25 PM.