288 replies to this topic

[Astrolis]

neo0031, on January 09 2014 - 03:04 PM, said:

"No tuning points."

Am I even reading this right_ WHAT_ How is that an improvement, other than newer players won't rage that it's "unfair"_

I must be misreading something. No more customized personal performing mech_ Everyone pilots the same thing more or less_ No more "making the mech truly mine aside from looks"_

just give all 30 tuning points from level 1. SAVE TUNING

[RafiSaputra]

__ Mech Test Drive __

Very Awesome man ! ... I cant wait for the next Update XD

[Sylhiri]

Astrolis, on January 09 2014 - 03:20 PM, said:

just give all 30 tuning points from level 1. SAVE TUNING

It's not only the vertical progression part, it's also trying to balance multiple tuning builds across multiple mechs across multiple classes. I honestly would say wait and see, they did say this was one part and they have several parts of the patch that complement this new system.

[Onyxmizer]

Without tuning points there's almost no reason for this to be a mech game. We basically will now have a gear based game (which wouldn't be bad if there was MORE GEAR). Removal of depth, I think, isn't the right option here. Maybe I'm talking out of my hurt butt right now, but dang it, what the fuzzy bunny_

[draco7891]

The thing is, the tuning system never really accomplished its intended goal: it still led to cookie-cutter builds. There are tuning categories that are, for lack of a better word, categorically better than their counter-parts: Cooling Units is always better to take than Heatsinks, more Armor is always better than less Armor, any mech with Air Dynamics has a distinct advantage over any without it, etc. etc. Chances are high that the way that my mech is  tuned, is the way your mech is tuned, is the way the vast majority of Hawken tuned that mech. Tuning was and is really just the illusion of choice, the illusion that the mech is "yours" without actually being so. Any tuning that ran "against the grain" was almost certainly less effective in its intended role, and tuning was never so drastic so as to allow the player to shift the mech to some other role. Mechs in Hawken have always had very narrow definitions and the areas where they succeed or fail very clearly delineated.

With that narrowness of scope in mind, it makes a lot of sense to just pre-tune the mechs and remove the ineffective "choice" system. Hawken has always had to strike a very fine line between two separate groups of players: mech sim guys who are all about the loadout, and shooter fans who are all about the skill in using a well-defined toolset. This is perhaps a move more towards the shooter side of that equation, but there is still plenty of room for gameplay customization through items and internals (and remember we haven't heard anything on this front yet, so there might be exciting new things coming that make this decision make more sense).

Draco

[ShadowWarg]

draco7891, on January 09 2014 - 03:52 PM, said:

With that narrowness of scope in mind, it makes a lot of sense to just pre-tune the mechs and remove the ineffective "choice" system. Hawken has always had to strike a very fine line between two separate groups of players: mech sim guys who are all about the loadout, and shooter fans who are all about the skill in using a well-defined toolset. This is perhaps a move more towards the shooter side of that equation, but there is still plenty of room for gameplay customization through items and internals (and remember we haven't heard anything on this front yet, so there might be exciting new things coming that make this decision make more sense).

We may get internals that do the same things that the tuning system did just with fixed numbers. In an ironic way this may turn Hawken more into a mech game than before, where the parts that you have installed help determine your mech's performance like most other mech games.

[1uster]

ShadowGTR, on January 09 2014 - 03:08 PM, said:

If we are using Stalker vision as our baseline for what generates heat, then there may be an explanation for why only mechs show up thermally but other things that are trackable via Hellfires do not. Stalker vision might be programmed to only highlight thermal objects of a certain size/shape (and I'm referring to the in-game world programming logic, not the real-life programming that makes up the game). The holographic generator itself generates heat, but since it is so small, the Stalker vision disregards it as an enemy and doesn't highlight it. Turrets also generate heat, but since they are again so small, and generally not a very significant threat, again Stalker vision ignores it. It only shows the most viable threats/objects, which are other mechs.

Now why do Hellfires not lock through walls_ One explanation could be that hellfires use a more rudimentary version of thermal tracking. Once an enemy goes into cover, it can't detect the enemy through the wall. Just like how a thermal camera can't pick up heat signatures when someone goes behind sufficient cover. The Predator appears to be using a much more highly advanced version of thermal tracking, which allows it to track through walls. It might possibly be also using sonar and x-ray in addition to help it see past obstacles (but since this wasn't ever mentioned that I recall, this is unlikely).

Course, this is just a theory. I personally don't use the Predator too often, so there may be some situations that discredit these theories.

Sorry but that little turrets are wonderful counters against Preds b/c when you uncloak for one shot in the near of that damn things they instantly destroy your cloak. I think they are a serious thread in these situations you have always to consider if you want to play very stealthie. All this theorizing is too much. The lock on stealth just feels very silly in this situations for the victim. Without that "intentional bug" all the HF spam maybe wouldn't be that hot of topic anymore at least for the inf and pred players. Especially the infs could just cloak and dodge when they here the alarm - > HF would miss. Like James Bonds Aston Martin in the ice palast in the final scene of "Die another day":
http://youtu.be/GbAiYjovbBM_t=4m26s
Btw - Q's camouflage works way better than that of inf and pred ;-)

[Sylhiri]

draco7891, on January 09 2014 - 03:52 PM, said:

Tuning was and is really just the illusion of choice, the illusion that the mech is "yours" without actually being so. Any tuning that ran "against the grain" was almost certainly less effective in its intended role, and tuning was never so drastic so as to allow the player to shift the mech to some other role. Mechs in Hawken have always had very narrow definitions and the areas where they succeed or fail very clearly delineated.

It's like you could read my mind :0

[Garx]

give us back old hud

[OmegaNull]

My only concern is that thes mech "presets" you guys will have will destroy a mech that does very well once tuned correctly (IE, scout needs the speed, otherwise it gets destroyed way too easily, brawler needs maxed movement to be functional, etc).

Make sure you guys give this some LONG DEEP thought.

[neo0031]

Garx, on January 09 2014 - 05:23 PM, said:

give us back old hud

Too late now.

I would love a more functional crosshair though. It is the only thing that hasn't, and cannot grow on me.

[yakob111]

I like updates maby it is a good one.

[MEGASLUSH]

Im shure this is for the good of all >>tuning XD // anyway who wants to have 2 identical mechs in their garage >> mech unlock  

[Saturnine]

OmegaNull, on January 09 2014 - 05:34 PM, said:

My only concern is that thes mech "presets" you guys will have will destroy a mech that does very well once tuned correctly (IE, scout needs the speed, otherwise it gets destroyed way too easily, brawler needs maxed movement to be functional, etc).

Make sure you guys give this some LONG DEEP thought.

There's almost certainly going to be a massive amount of balance changes besides this tuning change. We're not going to see the same mechs as we are now that have had 30 tuning points allocated as the devs please. The mechs are going to have their own specific balance, and they are just using the "tuning system" as a simplifying method in the background, and would not at all be limited by how we are now. The meta you're thinking of here won't apply to the mechs in the patch much at all, if the devs use this change to it's proper potential.

[Fstroke]

1uster, on January 09 2014 - 04:10 PM, said:

ShadowGTR, on January 09 2014 - 03:08 PM, said:

The technological argument is a valiant effort but the logic behind it has nothing to do with technology or physics. Having an ability that counters a weapon (or a weapons utility) is just bad for balance. Hellfires would be the only weapon affected by the cloaking ability. So this is neither a bug nor a feature, just a product of game balance.

[PrivateZim]

Sylhiri, on January 09 2014 - 11:06 AM, said:

DFTR, on , said:

As I understand the only difference mech levels will make is for cosmetic pieces_  I feel they've swung the pendelum too far away from the action RPG genre (leveling up mechs/pilots).  It's like how they nerfed the healing internals after everyone complained.

I was not aware this was an action RPG. Always thought it was a mech FPS.

If you, like me, can also read mech as RPG and FPS as action. then they're the same thing. It's all just a matter of degrees.

[Superkamikazee]

draco7891, on January 09 2014 - 03:52 PM, said:

The thing is, the tuning system never really accomplished its intended goal: it still led to cookie-cutter builds. There are tuning categories that are, for lack of a better word, categorically better than their counter-parts: Cooling Units is always better to take than Heatsinks, more Armor is always better than less Armor, any mech with Air Dynamics has a distinct advantage over any without it, etc. etc. Chances are high that the way that my mech is  tuned, is the way your mech is tuned, is the way the vast majority of Hawken tuned that mech. Tuning was and is really just the illusion of choice, the illusion that the mech is "yours" without actually being so. Any tuning that ran "against the grain" was almost certainly less effective in its intended role, and tuning was never so drastic so as to allow the player to shift the mech to some other role. Mechs in Hawken have always had very narrow definitions and the areas where they succeed or fail very clearly delineated.

With that narrowness of scope in mind, it makes a lot of sense to just pre-tune the mechs and remove the ineffective "choice" system. Hawken has always had to strike a very fine line between two separate groups of players: mech sim guys who are all about the loadout, and shooter fans who are all about the skill in using a well-defined toolset. This is perhaps a move more towards the shooter side of that equation, but there is still plenty of room for gameplay customization through items and internals (and remember we haven't heard anything on this front yet, so there might be exciting new things coming that make this decision make more sense).

Draco

So this.

[Sylhiri]

PrivateZim, on January 09 2014 - 08:29 PM, said:

If you, like me, can also read mech as RPG and FPS as action. then they're the same thing. It's all just a matter of degrees.

I read mech as racing and FPS as moba. How many degrees is that_ :0

[Gunmoku]

[HWK]ZamboniChaos, on January 08 2014 - 08:23 PM, said:

Pilot Progression and Matchmaking

Our matchmaking system is undergoing some revisions and we hope to roll out the changes to you soon. Part of this change will include putting a primary emphasis on Pilot Skill instead of Pilot Progression when finding quality matches for players. Pilot Progression is more of a system for unlocking new item, internal and cosmetic options. It will still effect matchmaking to a certain degree, but not to the extent it does currently. More information on our changes to matchmaking will be coming in the near future.

Reworking Mech Ranks

Mech ranks are another feature that received some adjustment. Instead of acting as a monetized gating system, mech ranks will simply act as a representation of your play time with a mech and an avenue for unlocking cool customizations and weapon options. The ability to purchase ability upgrades has also been removed.

Removal of Tuning Points

Another major change is our decision to remove Tuning Points from being used by players. Now, each mech's strength will be determined ahead of time and will not change as a pilot progresses.  Instead of being required to advance through pilot progression to acquire tuning points, players will have access to a fully balanced experience right out of the gate. The system still exists and we're able to use it in the background to really balance out each mech but it will no longer be something that players add points to over time.

Removal of Mech Unlocks

Since we've removed the ability to purchase mech ranks, we're also removing the free mech unlock that players would receive after reaching max rank. The reasoning behind this is simply based on monetization and economy. Previously, the cost of mech ranks contributed to the total cost of a single mech. This enabled us to provide mech unlocks to those that reached max mech rank. Now that mech ranks no longer have a cost associated with them, mech unlocks have been removed and the cost of each mech has been adjusted accordingly.

  


  


This is exactly what Hawken needs.  BALANCE.  And this is the way to get rid of part of the huge problem.  I'll be watching things closely and considering a return to the game once this new patch gets ironed out.

Edited by Gunmoku, January 09 2014 - 09:04 PM.

[Greenvalv]

draco7891, on January 09 2014 - 03:52 PM, said:

Cooling Units is always better to take than Heatsinks

I take heatsinks over cooling units erry time (expect for my grenadier, I invest in both for spamgasm)

draco7891, on January 09 2014 - 03:52 PM, said:

more Armor is always better than less Armor

I run a glass (no armor) build for my Assault, Raider, and Sharpshooter taking up WL for dakka and the mobility stats for dancing (and my other mechs lightly touch armor with excess tuning points).  More armor isn't always better... just sayin'.