288 replies to this topic

[HugeGuts]

Excellent. Removing tuning points is a good thing. With tuning points you would need to make sure a mech balances with no tuning points, some tuning points, and max tuning points. Yikes. Plus other issues like min/maxing, and tuning to bypass a class' intended weakness.

Removing tuning points also means more internals, as you can now create internals without having to consider if they are redundant with a tuning option.

Edited by HugeGuts, January 08 2014 - 10:31 PM.

[LinearFox]

awyea! i better unlock my pred before they take it out!

[ropefish]

ok in more more page everyone will start complaining, i just know it >_>

[Aregon]

[HWK]ZamboniChaos, on January 08 2014 - 08:23 PM, said:

Removal of Tuning Points

Well, that sucks.

But everything else is good!

Edited by Aregon, January 08 2014 - 10:29 PM.

[KejiGoto]

Really stoked about this can't wait to actually give it a shot in the future. The removal of tuning points I think will provide far more benefits than it will issues though (for those of you who aren't too hip to the idea). Now the deciding factor in encounters will be skill and skill alone. Yes some mechs will be regulated to roles or play styles you might not have favored before but there are still a variety of mechs out there for you to find something that better suits your tastes. Remember it isn't just the Berserker that is going through this change, all mechs are. Chances are a lot of people will be looking for new homes, so to speak.

Also everyone needs to remember there are more announcements coming about February's build and today's information was just the tip of the iceberg. So it isn't like the tuning system is being removed and Adhesive is calling it a day there.

Focusing on player skill over optimal builds will benefit Hawken in the long run I think. Very excited about this and this path can't get here soon enough.

[CJacobs]

Great, another way to get players to spend money by taking away previously free features. The Free to Play cycle continues, I guess. I thought Hawken was going to break the mold with the money gating but I guess I was wrong!

Quote

Instead of acting as a monetized gating system, mech ranks will simply act as a representation of your play time with a mech and an avenue for unlocking cool customizations and weapon options.

I think this part of the post is pretty funny because they removed the INGAME money gating to make way for REAL LIFE money gating. I think I'd have preferred if Hawken was just 20 bucks or whatever and thrived entirely off of customization dollars because these economic changes are so blatantly in favor of getting the players to spend their real life money it's embarrassing.

Edited by CJacobs, January 08 2014 - 10:41 PM.

[KejiGoto]

CJacobs, on January 08 2014 - 10:37 PM, said:

Great, another way to get players to spend money by taking away previously free features. The Free to Play cycle continues, I guess. I thought Hawken was going to break the mold with the money gating but I guess I was wrong!

Ummm... What_ How is this forcing players to spend money_ The developers set the tuning points for all mechs as a standard, no one else can change those. All Berserkers will be tuned the same, all Brawlers will be the same, you get the idea. There are no paid for benefits to gameplay in Hawken so it still maintains that standard.

So good news you're not wrong, except for your previous post about being wrong.

Edit: Also when they said that Pilot Level acted as a monetized gating system they meant with Hawken Credits, such as how you purchase the upgrades for your mechs. That aspects has been removed making mechs fully leveled (basically) out the gate. There is no pay to upgrade outside of internals and items which still run at the same cost of Hawken Credits they do.

The only things in Hawken that you have to spend real money on are cosmetic changes.

Edited by KejiGoto, January 08 2014 - 10:44 PM.

[HugeGuts]

CJacobs, on January 08 2014 - 10:37 PM, said:

Great, another way to get players to spend money by taking away previously free features. The Free to Play cycle continues, I guess. I thought Hawken was going to break the mold with the money gating but I guess I was wrong!

What_ They're basically going back to what they had before - Spend points to buy a mech, it's yours to power up however you see fit. In contrast to now - Spend points to buy a mech, but then spend more points to level it up before you can power up however you see fit. In addition, removing tuning points means the only difference between a new mech and a veteran mech is internals and items. In contrast to now with internals, items, and tuning points.

[MrShade_]

CJacobs, on January 08 2014 - 10:37 PM, said:

Great, another way to get players to spend money by taking away previously free features. The Free to Play cycle continues, I guess. I thought Hawken was going to break the mold with the money gating but I guess I was wrong!

Quote

Instead of acting as a monetized gating system, mech ranks will simply act as a representation of your play time with a mech and an avenue for unlocking cool customizations and weapon options.

I think this part of the post is pretty funny because they removed the INGAME money gating to make way for REAL LIFE money gating. I think I'd have preferred if Hawken was just 20 bucks or whatever and thrived entirely off of customization dollars because these economic changes are so blatantly in favor of getting the players to spend their real life money it's embarrassing.

Yeah.. I'm not really sure where you're getting all this from.

[CJacobs]

While it is true that you can still unlock new mechs with Hawken Credits, good luck doing that in any reasonable amount of time now that you can only get a handful per match. The system sucked before, and it's going to suck after unless there is a higher influx of Hawken Credits... but they aren't going to make there be a higher influx of Hawken Credits because this is a free to play game and they need players' money to keep going.

Edited by CJacobs, January 08 2014 - 10:47 PM.

[ShadowWarg]

I know I love Tuning. It was one of the thing in ascension that was great. I'm going to be really sad to see it leave, and personally I rather everyone just have 30 tuning points from the get go than see it leave. But if it helps the game's balance I guess I can't really complain..... well I can. but I'm not going to.

I will say let us toast to Hawken's progress that will come from the changes. and let us also pray for the return to tuning in the future on a more horizontal level.

TO TUNING. ON OF THE BEST THINGS IN HAWKEN! WE WILL SEE YOU AGAIN SOMEDAY, AND WHEN WE DO, YOU WILL BE BETTER THAN EVER.

Edited by ShadowWarg, January 08 2014 - 10:49 PM.

[HugeGuts]

CJacobs, on January 08 2014 - 10:47 PM, said:

The system sucked before, and it's going to suck after unless there is a higher influx of Hawken Credits...

The devs say they want to expand the Daily Bonus system. Once they do that there should be plenty of Hawken Credits for non paying users.

Edited by HugeGuts, January 08 2014 - 10:54 PM.

[KejiGoto]

CJacobs, on January 08 2014 - 10:47 PM, said:

While it is true that you can still unlock new mechs with Hawken Credits, good luck doing that in any reasonable amount of time now that you can only get a handful per match. The system sucked before, and it's going to suck after unless there is a higher influx of Hawken Credits... but they aren't going to make there be a higher influx of Hawken Credits because this is a free to play game and they need players' money to keep going.

Since you seem to know so much about the next build of the game please enlighten us as to everything else Adhesive is changing. I mean this is only a brief look at the changes to come and since you know that Hawken is moving towards a system which forces players to pay real money I'm curious about what you know.

Heck it isn't like test drives (which are free) are coming back or anything right_ Oh wait they are coming back... Well it isn't like mechs will be more affordable as you don't need to pay for upgrades right_ Oh that's right those are out in favor of a single price to get a mech without paying for any ranks or anything.

If anything you should see this as a benefit moving forward. Now you only need to buy a mech, the internals, and the items. Even before with mechs unlocking for free you still had to fully level up another mech and had to pay for all those upgrades in order to unlock the mech. So at worst this is kind of the same price wise but not really.

[Skrill]

So what happens to the Hawken Credits we spent unlocking those mech levels_ I am assuming they will be refunded.

[Sylhiri]

I will see on other things but it looks like a big step in the right direction.

[deeman010]

So this is basically a fusion of pre-ascension and post-ascension_ Nice.

I'm really loving the return of the mech test drives. One of the reasons my buddies quit was buying a mech, only to find out that the play style of the mech didn't suit them and that they were stuck with it until they could grind enough to get a new mech to try out.

Edited by deeman010, January 08 2014 - 11:07 PM.

[Spliff_Craven]

ThirdEyE, on January 08 2014 - 09:40 PM, said:

Huh_ That's completely different from how I interpreted it.  I think all it's referring to is the mech's strengths not growing over time due to earning more tuning points as you level up in pilot rank.  In other words a mech's strength will only increase as a pilot gets better at playing the mech.

Perhaps we are both right in different degrees.
Only the acid test upon patch release will tell {unless the Dev's better define the measures being taken}.

[Hocisern]

[Skrill]

crosshair options_

[JeffMagnum]

I'm personally upset about the loss in tuning options primarily because of what the devs are going to force the Berserker to be, as Airzerker certainly isn't the optimal build for everyone, including me. I've really been enjoying Zerker as of late to the extent that it's my new favorite mech, but now I realize I'm going to have to go back to tryharding in Scout to have remotely as much fun as I do now. The rationale given in the show tonight was that they're trying to keep players from making "bad" tuning decisions to ensure more balanced gameplay--the only issue is that what might be a poor tuning decision to one person might not be to another.

More generally though, pigeonholing a mech into a certain role via predetermined tuning makes certain configurations significantly less viable than they are now and eliminates even more choice than it appears to on the surface. One of the first examples that comes to mind is the Raider: a build optimal for the Reflak is probably not the best choice for EOC because of the completely different characteristics and playstyles of the two weapons. Someone who prefers to play the Brawler as a medium-range mech with the SA may not prioritize the movement tuning options as much as someone who wants to focus on CQC with the Flak or Vulcan, and someone who runs Miniflak instead of SMC on Vanguard may want to throw some points in Heatsinks that wouldn't be necessary with the latter weapon.

I understand that taking away this form of customization makes balancing easier, but you might as well just remove the weapon options that don't mesh well with the planned tuning configurations, as someone using an inappropriate weapon for the preconfigured build will be at a significant disadvantage compared to someone who uses the weapon or weapons that are intended to be used. The gap between level one and level 30 players needed to be significantly reduced, but I'm not convinced that this was the best way to go about doing so.

Edited by JeffMagnum, January 09 2014 - 10:20 PM.