116 replies to this topic

[Xacius]

v009, on February 07 2014 - 01:17 PM, said:

@TheEliterSlayer: I think Xacius chose a wrong video. http://www.twitch.tv...acius/c/3674644 Check this one out. Whilst he did catch them off guard, they should have killed Xacius without Fury dying. Both of the players aren't your average Hawken player.

Agreed.  This patch made 2v1's and 3v1's far more possible by circumventing the obscene advantage from larger health pools with player skill through movement potential.  Observe just how much I'm moving in that video.  You cannot do that in COD.  You cannot do that in battlefield.  You cannot do that it CS.  The game is still Hawken, only now it's far more punishing and skill-based.  

Is it twitchy_  Not really.  Is it more tense_ Definitely.  

I fuzzy bunny love this patch, but I also understand that many players are unhappy.  I recommend that you keep playing.  Focus mostly on survival, and don't less the pressure overwhelm you.  Keep calm, maybe revisit your playstyle, and give the new game a chance.

Edited by Xacius, February 07 2014 - 02:32 PM.

[SuicideNeil]

nepacaka, on February 06 2014 - 04:10 PM, said:

two words - tank scout

planning what are you doing advance. no one bothers you throw the orb early, something to then go back and lure the enemy into ypur trap

Planning an attack early is all well and good when comms are working (how about fixing that as a priority, hmm_ ), or when you are playing with friends and know their play style; on public servers half filled with rookies it's easy to get cut off or cut up by the other team. The need to heal quickly is imperative, as I have said, so making it harder/slower makes no sense- makes it cruel more like...

Quote

this game was ruined with ascention. now it's just back to normal

Mech health was never this low, though the mechs were pretty slow a long time ago- I can understanding the reasoning since it stops faster mechs just zooming around and killing everything in sight quite so easily. But that's back to balance again- the devs speed things up, slow them down, make them stronger, make them weaker, adust overheating stats- it's just constant messing with balance instead of bringing in core features you'd expect to find in any modern FPS.

Sylhiri, on February 06 2014 - 04:12 PM, said:

When the devs listened to the casual base of the community, we got ascension. When they listed to the high tier players we got this patch.

I choose this one over ascension any day, I'm still trying to get the ascension off of me but I ran out of metal brushes.

I don't recall seeing too many people asking for terrible UI graphics and a broken HUD design- when's that being fixed again_...w

ShadowWarg, on February 06 2014 - 04:15 PM, said:

Out of everything you listed, I fail to see a single issue. In fact everything you listed (expect for you think mechs are "slower" considering that they increased the speed) I would say improved the game.

Maybe I would like to see 100 health point increase across the board, but I would say this health is perfect and helped balance out a few of the troublesome classes. especially the A classes.

You fail to see any issues_ You must be one of the few who don't- the game servers and forum are filled with people voicing their disapproval, and out-right hatred of the changes. But ofcourse, there does seem to be this small core of people who love every change no matter how terrible it is- stop brown nosing because it's a free game & grow a back bone, their is no need to just be happy with every change just because you aren't paying as such.

And yeah, atleast 100/120/150 health points added to each class respectively to make it slightly less ridiculous; I'm seeing much more frenzied fighting in TDM so any notions of planned attacks and tactics is a bit of a joke unless people are playing as a clan or party.

HugeGuts, on February 06 2014 - 05:27 PM, said:

Weight based weapon variations and less weapon overlap were the only things old Hawken ever needed.

Yep- never really made sense to see A-class mechs carrying the same hardware as C-Class. That would bring a lot of balance to the lighter mechs, simply making them less deadly & seemingly over powered, but still allowing them the advantage of speed and manoeuvrability.

FlamingBeaker, on February 06 2014 - 07:20 PM, said:

I think the new update's WAY lower TTK is detrimental to people with high ping.

Exactly. There is an obvious issue here where the devs have listened ( apparently ) to the high-tier players and decided to drop the health so much; twitch players and players with extremely low pings ( scout & infiltrator abusers for the most part.. ) now have the advantage of being able to slaughter slower ( ping ) and newer players far more easily than before even. It suits them just fine, but relative beginners or people on a slower connection stand no chance against the 'glass cannons'.

Fpsnoobs, on February 06 2014 - 07:30 PM, said:

AH more of the COD screamers

How about you go and actually try COD_ Hum_

Go and try to return fire if someone got behind you and started shooting first
That's what low ttk is

Hawken is like, oh dude behind me, should probably turn/dodge

Stop rushing the entire enemy team and you'll be fine

I've played COD ( on PS3 ), and indeed if you get shot from behind then it's game over. However, with health so low now it is also pretty much game over in Hawken too; you do know that most A-classes can be one-shot killed by certain other mech, or two shot killed- I do believe some guys calculated the TTK with perfect accuracy and 1.4-1.7 seconds was quoted. That is just absurd when speed has in fact been reduced on many mechs- I am finding it hard to get from cover to cover anymore even when using a Technician which used to be a very fast walking mech...

burns1124, on February 06 2014 - 09:44 PM, said:

SuicideNeil, on February 06 2014 - 03:43 PM, said:

I can use a Technician to kill a C class mech in ~2 seconds. Any A class mech that so much as looks at a B or C class blows up in less than 2 seconds

Quote

use a Technician to kill a C class mech in ~2 seconds

Quote

Any A class mech ... less than 2 seconds

You invalidated the entire thread, in the first paragraph.  Well played, superior troll 8/10.



A week ago you were telling them to roll back Ascension to Raider patch, now it's roll back to Ascension.

Oh please, I put a 2 instead of a 3 when talking about my Tech killing a C-class and suddenly I have caused the world to end- get a grip man. And yes, it did only take 3 seconds to down a fatty using the death-ray, mini-hawkins & a single detonator, that is just stupid and should not be able to happen. And yes, it does take less than 2 seconds for a single mech to kill most A-classes- if you get caught off guard or in a cross-fire, it's pretty much instant death. I'll have to get some video to validate my thread again... *rolls eyes in distain*

I'd happily see the game rolled back prior to Ascension for the most part- so many questionable changes have been made and only tiny nuggets are offered in compensation.

Sylhiri, on February 06 2014 - 11:22 PM, said:

You could always plan your engagement ahead of time and place an orb where you'll need it around cover or near an escape route. Takes one or two games to get used to but you start to think a few steps ahead rather then in the moment.

Yeah, I'm having to do that but it isn't always possible- very easy to be caught off-guard on many maps ( all maps really, if their are Preds & Infils roaming around... ).

EmBoLa, on February 07 2014 - 01:35 PM, said:

ITS A MECH GAME even tho the gamplay is FPS instead thirdt person shooter, its still a MECH game. Period

Yeah we know it's a mech game, so why is it so easy to kill a mech the size of a house now_ Not terribly plausible in my book- hence why people are likening Hawken to Counsterstrike & COD- he who has the quickest reactions & pings wins...

[samusprime89]

same here, after the steam release i can barely get 50 fps on all the lowest possible settings, before i had 80-120 fps on ultra, idk what they did to the game, but its fuzzy bunny up

[SuicideNeil]

CounterlogicMan, on February 07 2014 - 02:11 PM, said:

Repair orb and shield are defensive options now, not hmmm I feel like winning (hope he doesn't have an emp) right now options.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention shields before. Why on earth have they gone back to being useless again_ They now serve little purpose as people can just walk right in while you are healing or fighting, but you can't retaliate until they are on top of you ( literally ) as your shots can't exit the shield. That's just stupid- look at StarTrek ( shut up ) if you want to know how shields should operate, stop fuzzy bunny around with how items work and bring in the missing functionality & feature this game needs.



[

Xacius, on February 07 2014 - 02:25 PM, said:

Agreed.  This patch made 2v1's and 3v1's far more possible by circumventing the obscene advantage from larger health pools with player skill through movement potential.  Observe just how much I'm moving in that video.  You cannot do that in COD.  You cannot do that in battlefield.  You cannot do that it CS.  The game is still Hawken, only now it's far more punishing and skill-based.  

Or, ping-based even. I'll never win a fight with twitch player when the pings are ~40 vs 150-200 in their favour....

[FRX23]

Xacius, on February 07 2014 - 02:25 PM, said:

v009, on February 07 2014 - 01:17 PM, said:

@TheEliterSlayer: I think Xacius chose a wrong video. http://www.twitch.tv...acius/c/3674644 Check this one out. Whilst he did catch them off guard, they should have killed Xacius without Fury dying. Both of the players aren't your average Hawken player.

Agreed.  This patch made 2v1's and 3v1's far more possible by circumventing the obscene advantage from larger health pools with player skill through movement potential.  Observe just how much I'm moving in that video.  You cannot do that in COD.  You cannot do that in battlefield.  You cannot do that it CS.  The game is still Hawken, only now it's far more punishing and skill-based.  

Is it twitchy_  Not really.  Is it more tense_ Definitely.  

I fuzzy bunny love this patch, but I also understand that many players are unhappy.  I recommend that you keep playing.  Focus entirely on survival, and don't less the pressure overwhelm you.  Keep calm, maybe revisit your playstyle, and give the new game a chance.

The most complaints are not about how to win and how much skill you need to success but the gameplay of a beloved damn good mech game.
A MECH game.

Why soldiers use Mech if they die even faster than if they are on foot _

There are so much fast paced fps on the market...
Hawken was a fresh and original approach of an FPS battle.

I see a lot of comments than sometimes sound L2P (learn to play) from FPS skilled veterans, but that was the same peoples that refuse to adapt to a slower FPS where teamplay > skill.

[craftydus]

[v009]

@ FRX23: You are not getting shot at by infantry but a mech with powerful weapons.
It's like comparing why is my tank getting destroyed by a tank It should be invincible to any soldier out there.

[TheEliteSlayer]

v009, on February 07 2014 - 01:17 PM, said:

@TheEliterSlayer: I think Xacius chose a wrong video. http://www.twitch.tv...acius/c/3674644 Check this one out. Whilst he did catch them off guard, they should have killed Xacius without Fury dying. Both of the players aren't your average Hawken player.

I watched the whole thing. Guess what_ You could do that pre-ascension as well and I can hear the cries of the anti alpha striking mobs still ringing in my ear. Yet here we are, nearly a year since alphas were the meta back to alphas. (reaper patch started it and raider finished it)

Xacius, on February 07 2014 - 02:25 PM, said:

I fuzzy bunny love this patch, but I also understand that many players are unhappy.  I recommend that you keep playing.  Focus mostly on survival, and don't less the pressure overwhelm you.  Keep calm, maybe revisit your playstyle, and give the new game a chance.

If I wanted to play a FPS survival game then I would play Nether. I am giving it a week and playing different mechs, which I suggest everyone else do despite how not fun it currently is.

Edited by TheEliteSlayer, February 07 2014 - 03:35 PM.

[driedjello]

craftydus, on February 07 2014 - 02:44 PM, said:

This misses the mark.  Many of us understand what is required in our play style to change with this new patch and that change drains any enjoyment we previously enjoyed with Hawken.  I know I have had a match where I simply dominated yet found no enjoyment in it.  None at all.  Hawken has, for me, lost its magic entirely in this new version.

[Sylhiri]

driedjello, on February 07 2014 - 04:13 PM, said:

I know I have had a match where I simply dominated yet found no enjoyment in it.  None at all.

Maybe your the type who likes to be dominated.

Don't worry, I don't judge

[chickenSTALKER]

I take back what I said about the patch being fun. While my k/d ratio remains similar to what I got before. The more I play the less fun I was having. Not sure why.

Edited by chickenSTALKER, February 07 2014 - 04:19 PM.

[Mr_Anderson_1977]

nepacaka, on February 06 2014 - 04:10 PM, said:

....This game was ruined with ascention. now it's just back to normal

[LordTemujin]

Honestly of all the whining and complaining for some reason this thread makes me the happiest...probably because it means I won't have to see Mr.Toxic bitching his way through any more siege games and calling teams out over and over again.

By the same token..this thread isn't something special, same complaints different format and no core reasoning beyond "I LIKED MY INFIL OP GIVE IT BACK'

[comic_sans]

SuicideNeil, on February 07 2014 - 02:38 PM, said:

CounterlogicMan, on February 07 2014 - 02:11 PM, said:

Repair orb and shield are defensive options now, not hmmm I feel like winning (hope he doesn't have an emp) right now options.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention shields before. Why on earth have they gone back to being useless again_ They now serve little purpose as people can just walk right in while you are healing or fighting, but you can't retaliate until they are on top of you ( literally ) as your shots can't exit the shield. That's just stupid- look at StarTrek ( shut up ) if you want to know how shields should operate, stop fuzzy bunny around with how items work and bring in the missing functionality & feature this game needs.

Dude, the new shield dance is so much more fun.  Both players have to want to be on the same side of the shield, and I've already had some great peekaboo matches and staredowns that just felt super tense.  Before, the shield was all about LEMME IN LEMME IN LEMME IN, and when it got down to CQC most A mechs would just kind of slide in and out like air hockey handles without a puck between them, hoping to show up behind the other guy long enough to win.  With the new turn cap helping with keeping a target in sight, the shield feels more like a challenge; a player throws one down to say "I want to have a tiny 1v1 here, now, with you."

[craftydus]

driedjello, on February 07 2014 - 04:13 PM, said:

craftydus, on February 07 2014 - 02:44 PM, said:

This misses the mark.

It wasn't aimed at you.
This was for Neil. Because...British.

Spoiler

Keep Calm and Carry On was a motivational poster produced by the British government in 1939...intended to raise the morale of the British public.  *sigh  just google it.[font=sans-serif]

[/font]

[ShadowWarg]

SuicideNeil, on February 07 2014 - 02:31 PM, said:

ShadowWarg, on February 06 2014 - 04:15 PM, said:

Out of everything you listed, I fail to see a single issue. In fact everything you listed (expect for you think mechs are "slower" considering that they increased the speed) I would say improved the game.

Maybe I would like to see 100 health point increase across the board, but I would say this health is perfect and helped balance out a few of the troublesome classes. especially the A classes.

You fail to see any issues_ You must be one of the few who don't- the game servers and forum are filled with people voicing their disapproval, and out-right hatred of the changes. But ofcourse, there does seem to be this small core of people who love every change no matter how terrible it is- stop brown nosing because it's a free game & grow a back bone, their is no need to just be happy with every change just because you aren't paying as such.

And yeah, atleast 100/120/150 health points added to each class respectively to make it slightly less ridiculous; I'm seeing much more frenzied fighting in TDM so any notions of planned attacks and tactics is a bit of a joke unless people are playing as a clan or party.

Well luckily for me I have my own mind and can make my own judgments just like you. All I was saying was, in my personal opinion, the things you listed are an improvement form my personal experience of the game so far. Core player or not, I'm not going to jump and say "THIS IS AWESOME" for something I know sucks.

So again I say 100 - 150 point boost in health or a 10% health boost I think would be hawkens golden health number. I prefer the percentage because with the lower health A mechs are finally in a good place.

There are may things I wish Hawken had such as more internal and new items to counter balance the removal of player tuning points , but I didn't think I need to say things like that seeing as I have voiced those concerns several times before and did not feel the need to do it again.

[Popatopia]

1. Assault mechs no longer playable

I worked a very long time up the tree to get assault. I hated every minute of playing the Vanguard. Now that I have the assault its pretty much unplayable. It just dies too fast. Which means I am forced to play a Vanguard to do any sort of killing.

2. Siege unplayable

Basically the strategy for siege involved a small mech unloading, running away before I kill it, and another small mech unloading and killing me while the other one heals and refreshes.


3. Deathmatch fixed

I think deathmatch is better.

Needless to say my two IRL friends both quit after the changes.

[RyuKaiser]

Sylhiri, on February 06 2014 - 04:12 PM, said:

SuicideNeil, on February 06 2014 - 03:43 PM, said:

I simply cannot fathom the though process of the developers most of the time- if they truly cared about attracting players and retaining them, they would actually listen and act on serious issues which many of the community are clearly not happy with.

When the devs listened to the casual base of the community, we got ascension. When they listed to the high tier players we got this patch.

I choose this one over ascension any day, I'm still trying to get the ascension off of me but I ran out of metal brushes.

Indeed, I loved the new rewards in ascension that came with the Achievements, but most of the rest of the game was complete bunk. I was simply not having any fun with the game. I was bored. It took forever to kill enemies, and even then, they'd just run back to their team mates, heal up, and then kill you.

The game I bought into was unveiled as being high speed, high power fun, that made you feel like you were piloting a death machine. It wasn't Mech Warrior, where it takes forever to kill someone. Complaints forged the game into a draggingly boring experience meant for arm-chair generals that didn't want to play Mech Warrior. Now it's back to the fun, high speed action of early beta, and I'm happy with it.

I will also say that this game is ridiculously intense now, and I get the feeling I'm constantly improving. I did however see a guy in a heavy-class just completely wrecking everyone. Strategy is still in, folks, it's just not "get the technician AND LIVE FOREVER!" sort of strategy. It's more like TF2, with Robots.

Besides, anyone complaining that mechs live a super long time (especially these wirey-looking mechs) has never seen Gundam.

[Tahoma]

"Game is hard again, wahh."
Just give them time, it's their project, their art.
This game has insane potential and I have all
the confidence in the world they'll reach it in due time.

Just treat it with a fresh mind. Trying to play old hawken Is fantasy.

(Perhaps even drive your CRT first to re-newbie yourself into this radical change.)

Edited by Tahoma, February 07 2014 - 07:25 PM.

[HugeGuts]

Tahoma, on February 07 2014 - 07:24 PM, said:

Just give them time, it's their project, their art.
This game has insane potential and I have all
the confidence in the world they'll reach it in due time.

Unfortunately, I do not think this excuse can work for much longer. Keep in mind, all testing phases add up to over one and a half years of testing. And the community is still not at a consensus as to Hawken's direction. Any potential the game builds up is reset with sweeping changes like the February patch. And this new meta only has two months to build potential if 1.0 is still set for the end of Q1.