82 replies to this topic

[fez]

I guess the search function is broken for you then.  There's a AWESOME tutorial for siege mode.  Search for "siege tutorial."  The one you're after is by LordTemujin.

edit:  bugger it, I'm feeling helpful today, I just got a job.

Here you go:  Clicky!

Edited by fez, March 02 2014 - 06:01 PM.

[Cloudstorm]

On the tutorial, I remember someone put a really good thread together can any point to where it is_  This is turning into a really good thread at the end of it changing the score rules and how they are created is the only way to get change but it will not be easy.
As a final comment I would like to hear how they would have dealt with the following. Had a match on the Oceania servers yesterday in siege where a pair of snipers working together did not collect any EU or enter the AA once in the game and when asked to help the response is not printable!

[fez]

I was in the same matches as you with them.  Typical sharpshooter mentality, which doesn't help team play one bit on Siege mode.

If they could have spawn camped, I guarantee those 2 would have.

[hendman]

Fill your friendlist with people who in your opinion do know how to play siege, problem solved.

Btw, on that sharpshooter situation. If he managed to get MVP without entering the AA and without gathering EU, then he must have racked up some pretty impressive kill/assist score, because most xp is granted for dropping off EU and controlling the AA.
Assuming that sharpshooter concentrated his efforts on the area around the AA, then the failure of the rest of the team to capitalize on that killscore, reflects bad on the rest of the team, not on that sharpshooter. That being said, a really good sharpshooter is a force to be reckoned with in cqc, and can be found contesting the AA, not just sniping from a distance while being out of harmsway.

[fez]

He didn't.

[Stormchoir]

Cloudstorm, on February 28 2014 - 02:03 PM, said:

Finally any player who does not enter AA once in game is banned for three rounds and given feedback so they know why!

Were you drunk or high when you typed this_ Banning someone because they do not go into the AA_ Nice way of forcing someone to do something they might not want to do.

[DFTR]

When I started the game, I loved Siege.  
I don't think it's hard to follow the basics; it tells you when to collect energy and when to go to AA.  In fact often times I scored more points in Siege just from following directions and going to AA!

More intricacies may be deciding when not to launch, when it's better to shoot down ship.  Obviously going into AA as a group effort.  

This tutorial is a sticky in General discussion:
https://community.pl...siege-tutorial/

Anyway, I never worry about KDR but now after so many games where it's just I and another fellow trying to take AA and others are hanging around EU or in the base shooting at ship, I've lost taste for Siege.  Occasionally I'll join on a friend and find them in Siege; otherwise would never Siege.   I guess Siege can't be that broken if I have so many friends who still play it.

[Cloudstorm]

Lots of good comment here. Despite all the issues I still think Siege the best game mode. I just wish we had a lot bigger maps so the the collection stations and AA could be randomly placed on the maps to provide variety and surprises. Dread to think how many visited the AA!

[RedSamovary]

A good alternative to siege mode could be this. I really liked that mode played on Medal of Honor (2011). One side is on the offense and the other on the defense. When the offensive team get the first area they move to the second forcing defensive team to fall back to next position. After the round the roles are inversed. This could be a cool mode for Hawken. I know that this mode have also many issues, but what the heck! for the fun of it! Just my 2 cents.

[7885]

I'd really like the devs to find ways and means to fix the competitive balance in seige.
Whether it's implemented through matchmaking or any of the many suggestions out there, I really hope it improves.

It seems 90% of the matches are determined by the time I enter. Shutouts one way or the other. Tonight I had the misfortune to be on the wrong side of about 8 blowouts in a row and it really takes a lot of the fun out of it. Seige is (or would be) my favourite game mode if/when they find a way to make it a little more interesting outcome-wise. There really are an endless number of ways to improve this.

[SectionZ]

Only just started playing the other day (Finally putting that Nemesis bundle to use), so far only Pilot 14, Recruit 4. So I'm sure my opinion can or will be easily disregarded as much as anyone else one doesn't agree with. This is coming from a newbie with some GOOD luck in Siege so far though.

  My first Siege match, both teams are good.  AA kept going back and forth and the moments where both teams did not have a ship up around the same time were few.  We won, but it wasn't exactly a sure thing.

  Second Siege match, the realizations start to set in that bugs me for the rest of them I played tonight.  I come to the annoying realization that the enemy team isn't sending their own ship after ours because they are "Bad".  They are not sending a ship after ours because they are not ALLOWED to.  The Dispensers shut off and there is nowhere near enough energy currently being held by mechs to launch their own if looted as they came short by a little over 100.  At first I thought the Dispensers shut off when you don't hold the AA, but then I was told they are shut off if there is a Battleship in the sky.

  What the hell.  I get logically that this is probably to keep the match from being 90% two battleships ducking it out instead of shooting bases, but come on.  We are not currently winning because my team or I are "better" than the enemy team.  We are winning because there is not enough energy left floating around for them to launch their ship, so they just have to sit there and take it until they can pry the AA out of our hands, or slowly shoot our ship down themselves.  Between us taking the AA back again from them as we regroup and respawn dragging it out.  With tricked out Vets (so far as I can tell from having non Fred's with a stack of items and internals) screaming "DON'T SHOOT THE SHIP"  so much that the seeming newbies on their team don't even take enough potshots to remove our battlecruiser's turrets for a good while.

  Doesn't matter how good or bad they are, if the full team vs full team AA carnage is even close to comparable skill then all we gotta do is laugh as they are completely locked out of launching their own ship for the first fourth to half of their base health.  So yeah, I get this is designed this way on purpose so matches don't take an hour.  But at the same time, it feels like Siege mode is designed to promote lopsided matches.  This coming from a newbie who's had good luck in his first tries at Siege (Whooo, 60 Experience for dropping off 200 energy!), so it's not like I'm going "Oh my god why can't I win Siege Mode it is clearly everyone's fault by my own".

  Which is a shame because aside from that nagging feeling of "Well, we got an advantage because the enemy is locked out from getting the last 5 energy they need sucks to be them", Siege mode has been my favorite mode so far.  Something beyond Shoot Eachother for the sake of it, and some goals to promote the likelihood of huge full team brawls for the AA.

TL;DR:  A newbie feels he's been having good luck winning Siege so far because it's designed to not let the enemy fight back with their own battlecruiser half the time (For apparent reasonable, match length control reasons).  Not because the enemy team has been full of idiots.

Edited by SectionZ, March 20 2014 - 12:05 AM.

[XyXly]

Slayzz, on February 28 2014 - 11:21 AM, said:

At first, player who left a battle should become a punishment. A map-blocking for a short time would be too hard, i think a minus of the mech-stats would be an option, -10%dmg/hp or something.

I shouldn't have to suffer through the incompetence of my teammates if I don't want to play a game doomed to lose 2k-0

[XyXly]

SectionZ, on March 19 2014 - 11:55 PM, said:

The Dispensers shut off and there is nowhere near enough energy currently being held by mechs to launch their own if looted as they came short by a little over 100.  At first I thought the Dispensers shut off when you don't hold the AA, but then I was told they are shut off if there is a Battleship in the sky.

But your team WAS better, because you launched your ship FIRST. That's a variable in Seige

[Dongabhana]

wbg_goof, on February 28 2014 - 10:38 AM, said:

I'm talking about how 19 in 20 games as I play them are completely and totally unbalanced.

I dont think that's an actual argument

[k33n]

I just make sure to use my mic and give people guidance when they are confused, and try to tell the enemy team what they did wrong at round end. Works for me.

[mittens800]

The siege tutorial is a STICKY for crying out loud... holy... how can you "not find it".
It's a freaking awesome tutorial and explains basically EVERYTHING.

While it is annoying that you can't really launch ship after enemy, it's not that big of a deal.

The main thing is controlling AA.  If you can't do this, it doesn't matter if you can launch ship or not.
It almost doesn't matter what you do at that point, your team will lose.
The only point in launching ship at the same time as enemy is IF YOUR TEAM CAN RETAKE AA.

If your team can't do this, you are WASTING YOUR SHIP.  Seriously, you just throw it away for no reason.

90% of the time, team doesn't listen anyways, so ragequit is my game.  You can tell your team will lose when they are never on AA and never try to take the AA, and always trying to harvest EU even though the trees are going to be shut down in 10s anyways and there is no time to deliver it back to the base.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

SectionZ, on March 19 2014 - 11:55 PM, said:

TL;DR:  A newbie feels he's been having good luck winning Siege so far because it's designed to not let the enemy fight back with their own battlecruiser half the time (For apparent reasonable, match length control reasons).  Not because the enemy team has been full of idiots.

Hmmm..  Your opponents very likely have enough EU to launch, if they'd wake up to the fact they CAN launch.  Whether or not they SHOULD is a different question.  

In lower-level games, IMO, there are players who hold FAR too much EU and drop it at the AA when they get killed.

[Mille78]

I really feel sad.
Last 10 matches i played was a complete disaster.
People shooting at ship directly, Noone entering AA. Teams with 3 snipers. People launching ships without AA control.
How the hell people think to control AA shooting other players from outside the zone_

[SectionZ]

Call_Me_Ishmael, on March 28 2014 - 07:59 PM, said:

SectionZ, on March 19 2014 - 11:55 PM, said:

TL;DR:  A newbie feels he's been having good luck winning Siege so far because it's designed to not let the enemy fight back with their own battlecruiser half the time (For apparent reasonable, match length control reasons).  Not because the enemy team has been full of idiots.

Hmmm..  Your opponents very likely have enough EU to launch, if they'd wake up to the fact they CAN launch.  Whether or not they SHOULD is a different question.  

In lower-level games, IMO, there are players who hold FAR too much EU and drop it at the AA when they get killed.

Getting back to this, it seems the HIGHER level I get, the worse the average skill level is/the more they leave.

When I picked the game up about a week ago now, matches tended to be fullish and, if not remain full, fill back up quickly.  On top of being more even back and forth instead of one side stomping the other in TDM, Seige, and Missile Assault.

Since I hit level 20 the other day however it was like some kind of switch was flipped, and it's constant leavers before and after latest patch.  Along with countless matches across all game types that remain 2vs3 (One occasion we started winning such in TDM, all three enemies just ragequit, of course.) or 3vs4 for half the match.  One would think it would be the other way around with the general skill level increasing and amount of leavers would become LESS the higher your level.  But in my whole bit over week of play and Rank 6ing my Recruit and assault, the opposite seems true.

Is this some combination of higher level players being more obsessive about Win Loss Ratio, and higher level players being more likely to be 3 mans or such swinging in and running off looking for easier targets if it's not a crush_  That's all I can think of for such a drastic drop shift in average (as in, compared to eachother in any given match) player skill and mindset the higher my level gets.

EDIT: I also learned that if you patiently wait around for more players in TDM (east coast server) once the rest bail out... Sometimes you end up being all alone, and staring at a 0 vs 0 score, and unable to win sudden death, or lose it if you kill yourself.  So you gotta take a leaver count and not get your Hawken points because you naughty person, you stuck around thinking more players would show up in that span of 10 minutes.

To be fair, that one was at like, 7 am.

Edited by SectionZ, March 29 2014 - 01:40 PM.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

Okay, I find good siege matches are hard-fought start-finish at about server MMR 1800+.

I think there's an upswell of leavers/crappy play in both level and MMR now the playerbase is bigger.  Eventually, MMR will sort itself out.