82 replies to this topic

[nokari]

Terr_, on July 07 2014 - 02:09 PM, said:

I think the most immediate problem with Siege is that it is too easy for players to unintentionally sabotage their own team.

Or in some cases, intentionally

[Mawnkey]

Siege PRO-MODE: more than one sniper standing off AA with the lowest score on the team. You always know you're winning when you've got a pair of snipers that can't even get a kill between them watching your back. And not standing on point. Of course not standing on point.

Their little KE-Sabot can kill the ship faster than that big ol' slow missile from AA can anyway, right_

[EM1O]

TL DR
Link this:  https://community.pl...siege-tutorial/

3 separate threads current on Forums grumping about Siege. For crapsakes.
Use your Search bar.
Google it.

[IronClamp]

Mawnkey, on July 07 2014 - 07:38 PM, said:

Siege PRO-MODE: more than one sniper standing off AA with the lowest score on the team. You always know you're winning when you've got a pair of snipers that can't even get a kill between them watching your back. And not standing on point. Of course not standing on point.

Their little KE-Sabot can kill the ship faster than that big ol' slow missile from AA can anyway, right_

RPR - KE-Sabot pair actually kills ship rather fast....

And why would you want a flimsy sniper at point_ I've tried that, doesn't end well for the team....

[Moreapples]

IronClamp, on July 10 2014 - 04:19 PM, said:

Mawnkey, on July 07 2014 - 07:38 PM, said:

Siege PRO-MODE: more than one sniper standing off AA with the lowest score on the team. You always know you're winning when you've got a pair of snipers that can't even get a kill between them watching your back. And not standing on point. Of course not standing on point.

Their little KE-Sabot can kill the ship faster than that big ol' slow missile from AA can anyway, right_

RPR - KE-Sabot pair actually kills ship rather fast....

And why would you want a flimsy sniper at point_ I've tried that, doesn't end well for the team....

I tried it and it worked.
CQC with Slug SS ftw.

[Barbie_in_a_Mech]

EM1O, on July 08 2014 - 01:14 PM, said:

TL DR
Link this:  https://community.pl...siege-tutorial/

3 separate threads current on Forums grumping about Siege. For crapsakes.
Use your Search bar.
Google it.

Maybe it's a sign_  I wish they would remove it and replace it with something simpler.  Most of my siege games are pure misery and the few good ones are not worth it.  I just play it for the sake of diversity.

IronClamp, on July 10 2014 - 04:19 PM, said:

RPR - KE-Sabot pair actually kills ship rather fast....

And why would you want a flimsy sniper at point_ I've tried that, doesn't end well for the team....

It's not my place to answer but I think I can.  Snipers who can't hit their targets would be more useful as semi-idle meatbags on the point.  Those who are fighting there don't need support fire that hits nothing.  Idle meatbags offer more resistance on the point, as well as a distraction, so even if they can't hit anything, they still manage to be useful simply by standing on the point.

But it's unrealistic to expect that from them.  Most people are stuck with the mindset of "I have to stay alive".

Snipers who deal significant damage and are not at the bottom of the scoreboard are ok, but there are critical times where they should get off their high horse and go stand on the point for a few seconds.  But like those mentioned above, they tend to be "delicate creatures".

Edited by Barbie_in_a_Mech, July 12 2014 - 09:26 PM.

[ThatDamnedBoedy]

Easily fixed by turning friendly fire on so I can kill useless team mates over and over and over.  consequences for failure.

[CounterlogicMan]

Not understanding how to play siege....and not understanding how to fit/play your mech in siege....does not mean siege is broken. Having 6v4s or 5v4s or 4v3s does not mean siege is broken.

Stop assuming that all 6 mechs have to be in the AA for your team to take it. Stop assuming that everyone on your team is watching what you are doing. On that same note, try and be aware of where your teammates are and what they may be doing. If you are gonna flank or set up for a timing attack...SAY SO!!!!! Your teammates probably cannot read your mind. If you notice your teammate is flanking, get ready to support him/take advantage of the distraction, maybe even mention that in chat!!!

If your mech can't handle CQC you probably shouldn't face smash your keyboard in the AA. Maybe you should find a nice firing position on the flanks, at an angle on your side, or even ontop of the AA. A position that favors your range and gives you a good view of where the enemies are or will be on the AA. Be ready to move to a different position if your enemy stops going to that part of the AA because you are shooting them or comes after you.

There are these things on maps in Hawken, they are all around the AA, they are called attack lanes (think mobas if you can't visualize what I mean). Along these attack lanes there are firing positions that give you a view of some parts of the AA. Familiarize yourself with these so you know where to be if you are not a mech that should be inside, ontop, or infront of the AA. A sniper or suppression mech in one of these firing positions can deny damage free movement, on these parts of the AA, for the enemy enemy allowing teammates to get a foothold. Learn to utilize this. Doing damage from these positions forces the enemy to think twice about poking out, gives your team a chance to get in there, and takes away defender advantage by lessening enemy health.

If your team takes the AA some mechs should move infront of it, others should get ontop, and some should even stick on a flank to protect that. When any people rushing the AA these flank mechs can flank the attackers. I.E. you don't have to have a blue 6 next to the AA symbol to win. In fact by putting all 6 on the AA you are opening yourselves up for a beat down by some nice AoE. If the enemy has no good AoE then sure 6 on the AA can be nice.

Most maps favor a wide range of mechs depending on where you are on the map and what the situation is. But not every map favors every mech. Maybe you shouldn't play some mechs that suck at fighting mid/long range mechs in the open on last echo siege.

If you are worried about contributing to your teams success or winning a lot.

Think about your teams composition, okay now think about your enemies composition....okay now spawn in a good mech for the situation. Don't know a good composition or what complements what compositions_ Experiment through trial and error, guess by the mech archetypes (suppression, range, assassin, assault, defender, support), or ask on the forums!

If you just want to play your favorite mech...that is perfectly fine. But don't complain about balance, losing, or your teammates if your favorite mech has no place in your teams composition or is hard countered by the enemy/map layout.

/rant

Edited by CounterlogicMan, July 15 2014 - 03:21 PM.

[Skrill]

rejwen, on February 28 2014 - 12:15 PM, said:

I think that obligatory offline siege training for new players will help

+1

[IronClamp]

Barbie_in_a_Mech, on July 12 2014 - 09:17 PM, said:

.....

Figures, I don't do point, mostly because as a player, I really suck. Sure I can put out the shots sensibly, but when it comes to moving out of tight areas, I really hit a wall, literally. That's why I flank, take out snipers that cause too many problems to be sanely left alone and steal enemy nests for the greater good of taking the bastards out that much faster.

What can I say, I like kill stealing far more than getting assists.

[Dr_Vodka]

I just started playing siege (Im fairly new to hawken) and totally love the game mode.  However, I often find myself in teams that are extremely unbalanced.

For example, in one of my last games, I was the top player of my team with 370+- points, some of my teammates were at 80-100 range. While the other team had 700-500 players. Needless to say, we got rolled bad. I don't think siege is broken, but matchmaking needs a bit of a fix.

Also, I would like to see a required in-game tutorial for Siege. Like the one for Basics when you first play Hawken. I get the feeling that a whole lot of players have no idea what the basics of siege are.

tl;dr - Siege is not broken,, work on better matchmaking,, require a Siege tutorial before playing that game mode.


EDIT: Here is another "balanced" siege game I was just in.

 Untitled-1.jpg   121.84K   11 downloads

Edited by Dr_Vodka, July 22 2014 - 08:49 AM.

[IronClamp]

Depending on how many games you've played, this may just be the fact that your being pitted against more seasoned players (not necessarily high level Hawken pilots, but people who play more CoD than they should), or that the enemy team had the advantage of all just happening to be on the same page.

And your right, Seige isn't in it self broken, it's the engine behind the matches, and that may not be the problem, it might just be the fact that no one cares to communicate, or be apart of a team, or cooperate in any way with other players.... But that's a rant I'll save for another time.....

If you want a good Seige guide, search for Soldier Hobbes' Beginner's Seige Guide, from the small amount of his work that I've seen, it is very helpful and informative.

[ThatDamnedBoedy]

CounterlogicMan, on July 15 2014 - 03:20 PM, said:

Not understanding how to play siege....and not understanding how to fit/play your mech in siege..... Having 6v4s or 5v4s or 4v3s does not mean siege is broken.

Stop assuming that all 6 mechs have to be in the AA for your team to take it. Stop assuming that everyone on your team is watching what you are doing.


There are these things on maps in Hawken, they are all around the AA, they are called attack lanes (think mobas if you can't visualize what I mean). Along these attack lanes there are firing positions that give you a view of some parts of the AA. Familiarize yourself with these so you know where to be if you are not a mech that should be inside, ontop, or infront of the AA. A sniper or suppression mech in one of these firing positions can deny damage free movement, on these parts of the AA, for the enemy enemy allowing teammates to get a foothold. Learn to utilize this. Doing damage from these positions forces the enemy to think twice about poking out, gives your team a chance to get in there, and takes away defender advantage by lessening enemy health.

If your team takes the AA some mechs should move in front of it, others should get on top, and some should even stick on a flank to protect that. When any people rushing the AA these flank mechs can flank the attackers. I.E. you don't have to have a blue 6 next to the AA symbol to win. In fact by putting all 6 on the AA you are opening yourselves up for a beat down by some nice AoE. If the enemy has no good AoE then sure 6 on the AA can be nice.


If you are worried about contributing to your teams success or winning a lot.

Think about your teams composition, okay now think about your enemies composition....okay now spawn in a good mech for the situation. Don't know a good composition or what complements what compositions_ Experiment through trial and error, guess by the mech archetypes (suppression, range, assassin, assault, defender, support), or ask on the forums!

If you just want to play your favorite mech...that is perfectly fine.
/rant

1) Don't play siege until you understand its basics.  coming into a game and crying about being a noob doesn't help.  Leave the game and go read the forums so you can contribute.  Siege isn't that hard and taking 30 seconds to learn the basics isn't asking too much.  
2)  Being outnumbered is a factor.  The right mechs and tactics can counter a situation like a 6v4 (if the other team is terrible) but not so much a 6v3.  It has nothing to do with the game mode working however...it more has to do with the game mode not suspending the ability of either team to obtain the objective while there is a massive imbalance.
3) You're right it doesn't take all 6 inside the AA but its does take 4-5 in many situations.  Once the enemy is pushed off you can pursue their now scattered forces..but always watch your radar and always be looking around at what teammate are doing.
4)  Green = good
5)  Red = Bad
6) Don't worry about your kill:death ratio.  Don't worry about getting a high personal score.  This is a team game even more than team death match.  The only score that really matters is base health.  So keep an eye on EU levels.  If the opponent can launch quickly then you have to hold the aa...don't run off for more EU right away.  That missile will kill that ship in 4-5 cycles.  The more people on the AA the faster it cycles...so play as a team.
7) if you don't have a headset+mic please please get a nice one or communicate through team chat press "t" to do that.

[caduceus26]

ThatDamnedBoedy, on August 06 2014 - 12:27 PM, said:

CounterlogicMan, on July 15 2014 - 03:20 PM, said:

Not understanding how to play siege....and not understanding how to fit/play your mech in siege..... Having 6v4s or 5v4s or 4v3s does not mean siege is broken.

Stop assuming that all 6 mechs have to be in the AA for your team to take it. Stop assuming that everyone on your team is watching what you are doing.


There are these things on maps in Hawken, they are all around the AA, they are called attack lanes (think mobas if you can't visualize what I mean). Along these attack lanes there are firing positions that give you a view of some parts of the AA. Familiarize yourself with these so you know where to be if you are not a mech that should be inside, ontop, or infront of the AA. A sniper or suppression mech in one of these firing positions can deny damage free movement, on these parts of the AA, for the enemy enemy allowing teammates to get a foothold. Learn to utilize this. Doing damage from these positions forces the enemy to think twice about poking out, gives your team a chance to get in there, and takes away defender advantage by lessening enemy health.

If your team takes the AA some mechs should move in front of it, others should get on top, and some should even stick on a flank to protect that. When any people rushing the AA these flank mechs can flank the attackers. I.E. you don't have to have a blue 6 next to the AA symbol to win. In fact by putting all 6 on the AA you are opening yourselves up for a beat down by some nice AoE. If the enemy has no good AoE then sure 6 on the AA can be nice.


If you are worried about contributing to your teams success or winning a lot.

Think about your teams composition, okay now think about your enemies composition....okay now spawn in a good mech for the situation. Don't know a good composition or what complements what compositions_ Experiment through trial and error, guess by the mech archetypes (suppression, range, assassin, assault, defender, support), or ask on the forums!

If you just want to play your favorite mech...that is perfectly fine.
/rant

1) Don't play siege until you understand its basics.

...SNIP...

This.  +1

[ThatDamnedBoedy]

IronClamp, on July 10 2014 - 04:19 PM, said:

Mawnkey, on July 07 2014 - 07:38 PM, said:

Siege PRO-MODE: more than one sniper standing off AA with the lowest score on the team. You always know you're winning when you've got a pair of snipers that can't even get a kill between them watching your back. And not standing on point. Of course not standing on point.

Their little KE-Sabot can kill the ship faster than that big ol' slow missile from AA can anyway, right_

RPR - KE-Sabot pair actually kills ship rather fast....

And why would you want a flimsy sniper at point_ I've tried that, doesn't end well for the team....

The point is that sniping isn't helping enough.  Get in something else or leave the damned match,

[ThatDamnedBoedy]

I honestly leave a match where someone is in a sniper.  My experience is that unless he/she is a remarkable pilot...then the chance of loss is up by like 50% since the sniper is rarely on the AA.

[IronClamp]

You're looking for one-shot snipers. Or just a sniper that get's ez-kills. I don't know about you, but support means more of "covering your team's ass" rather than "making the team irrelevant".

Also by snipers, do you mean Sharpies, Reapers, or both_ I play Reaper most of the time and in open maps I use the AA as a great nest, and in other maps I stick close to the AA and strike from flank or rear.

[ThatDamnedBoedy]

IronClamp, on August 20 2014 - 04:43 PM, said:

You're looking for one-shot snipers. Or just a sniper that get's ez-kills. I don't know about you, but support means more of "covering your team's ass" rather than "making the team irrelevant".

Also by snipers, do you mean Sharpies, Reapers, or both_ I play Reaper most of the time and in open maps I use the AA as a great nest, and in other maps I stick close to the AA and strike from flank or rear.

When what I need is a body on the AA you are hindering more than helping.  And yes I am talking about sharpshooters and reapers.  You're more useful in a technician...or any other B/C/A class.  The Scout is a better alternative even.

[MalazanSapper]

ThatDamnedBoedy, on August 21 2014 - 05:10 PM, said:

IronClamp, on August 20 2014 - 04:43 PM, said:

You're looking for one-shot snipers. Or just a sniper that get's ez-kills. I don't know about you, but support means more of "covering your team's ass" rather than "making the team irrelevant".

Also by snipers, do you mean Sharpies, Reapers, or both_ I play Reaper most of the time and in open maps I use the AA as a great nest, and in other maps I stick close to the AA and strike from flank or rear.

When what I need is a body on the AA you are hindering more than helping.  And yes I am talking about sharpshooters and reapers.  You're more useful in a technician...or any other B/C/A class.  The Scout is a better alternative even.

As a predominately C-Class pilot - I have no problem with Reapers in Siege. At least they are mobile and do the stick & move thing (if they're a competent pilot). Maybe its not a body on the AA - but if they're enough of a distraction for me to Vanguard in and clear the fuzzy bunny out thats fine by me.

Sharpshooters in Siege - completely agree - the class should just be banned. Admittedly, I'm only ~1800 MMR, but I've yet to see a SS be effective in any game mode outside of Bunker/Bazaar  They might be an annoying opponent sometimes but they are NEVER a useful team player. Always they just wanna camp someplace, usually a less than ideal location for anyone but them, and spend the round stealing kills and not actually being supportive!

[IronClamp]

MalazanSapper, on August 22 2014 - 11:40 AM, said:

Sharpshooters in Siege - completely agree - the class should just be banned. Admittedly, I'm only ~1800 MMR, but I've yet to see a SS be effective in any game mode outside of Bunker/Bazaar  They might be an annoying opponent sometimes but they are NEVER a useful team player. Always they just wanna camp someplace, usually a less than ideal location for anyone but them, and spend the round stealing kills and not actually being supportive!

Ditto.