24 replies to this topic

[Abidus]

Fell in love with the reflak raider for about 8 hours, before starting to see the flaws in its design and making this video. Thought I would share it with you fine people, as it has some decent footage at the very least!

Edited by Abidus, February 28 2014 - 01:31 PM.

[LoC_TR]

Great vid dude, all the feels. I pretty much agree with everything you had to say on the Raider, came to pretty much the same conclusion right after the moved to steam. You can still top the charts, even in high tier games, its like rolling dice though. It's under powered overall, It gotta pretty big nerf hammer for good reason too. This mech is not easy to balance, It's either really good, or in this case really bad. Before steam this mech was something to fear, now I look at the Raider and see a fight I can win without too much trouble. Good to see some Raider love.

Edited by LoC_TR, February 28 2014 - 01:57 PM.

[Nosmer]

Agreed on every single point. Raider is too thin and too slow for a b-class mec, and heavily relies on it's internals. Blitz covers pretty much all of the chasis weaknesses, but it's cooldown is too high. And reflak is the only weapon for a consistent damage output.

Edited by Nosmer, February 28 2014 - 03:17 PM.

[Abidus]

LoC_TR, on February 28 2014 - 01:56 PM, said:

Great vid dude, all the feels. I pretty much agree with everything you had to say on the Raider, came to pretty much the same conclusion right after the moved to steam. You can still top the charts, even in high tier games, its like rolling dice though. It's under powered overall, It gotta pretty big nerf hammer for good reason too. This mech is not easy to balance, It's either really good, or in this case really bad. Before steam this mech was something to fear, now I look at the Raider and see a fight I can win without too much trouble. Good to see some Raider love.

Glad you liked it! I really hope it gets a buff in the near future because it is still one of the most satisfying mechs to play when things work out.

Nosmer, on February 28 2014 - 02:56 PM, said:

Agreed on every single point. Raider is too thin and too slow for a b-class mec, and heavily relies on it's internals. Blitz covers pretty much all of the chasis weaknesses, but it's cooldown is too high. And reflak is the only weapon for a consistent damage output.

Absolutely. I'm not even sure where to start when it comes to balancing it, without it turning out OP. Part of me thinks that a reduction on Blitz's cooldown and/or a much bigger fuel tank/faster dodge would make a world of difference in this case.

[Nosmer]

Abidus, on March 01 2014 - 02:29 AM, said:

Absolutely. I'm not even sure where to start when it comes to balancing it, without it turning out OP. Part of me thinks that a reduction on Blitz's cooldown and/or a much bigger fuel tank/faster dodge would make a world of difference in this case.

Reducing Blitz cooldown is a good idea. I'm not shure about fuel tank, but faster dodge is an OP thing that will make Raider a superior Scout.

Edited by Nosmer, March 01 2014 - 04:30 AM.

[Zanozus]

I think reducing Blitz cooldown and increasing refire rate of Corsair to 3.1-3.3 seconds would be enough.

[Call_Me_Ishmael]

Give us back the nerfed trace on the MIRV (edit:  and decrease the spread a few percent), reduce the Corsair cooldown (not dodge).  I'm okay with reducing the damage each trace does.

That should be enough, possibly a tad more health or a tad more fuel, but not both.

Edited by Call_Me_Ishmael, March 01 2014 - 12:17 PM.

[Abidus]

Nosmer, on March 01 2014 - 04:30 AM, said:

Abidus, on March 01 2014 - 02:29 AM, said:

Absolutely. I'm not even sure where to start when it comes to balancing it, without it turning out OP. Part of me thinks that a reduction on Blitz's cooldown and/or a much bigger fuel tank/faster dodge would make a world of difference in this case.

Reducing Blitz cooldown is a good idea. I'm not shure about fuel tank, but faster dodge is an OP thing that will make Raider a superior Scout.

Not sure if we're talking about the same thing, but I meant a faster dodge cooldown (time between dodges), not the actual movement speed while dodging.

[Nosmer]

Abidus, on March 01 2014 - 07:22 AM, said:

Not sure if we're talking about the same thing, but I meant a faster dodge cooldown (time between dodges), not the actual movement speed while dodging.

We are. Raider's dodge cooldown is 1.2s while Scout's is 1.0s. The difference is tiny, but reducing it will certainly make Raider OP IMO.

Edited by Nosmer, March 01 2014 - 12:02 PM.

[LoC_TR]

Nosmer, on March 01 2014 - 11:57 AM, said:

Abidus, on March 01 2014 - 07:22 AM, said:

Not sure if we're talking about the same thing, but I meant a faster dodge cooldown (time between dodges), not the actual movement speed while dodging.

We are. Raider's dodge cooldown is 1.2s while Scout's is 1.0s. The difference is tiny, but reducing it will certainly make Raider OP IMO.

Ya you cant do this. they want all b's to have the same dodge cooldown, a run speed or fuel capacity increase may be what you're looking for. We need the ability to buy time in between a long cool down on the corsair. The t-32 feels like a wet napkin too.

[caduceus26]

Abidus, on February 28 2014 - 01:30 PM, said:

Fell in love with the reflak raider for about 8 hours, before starting to see the flaws in its design and making this video. Thought I would share it with you fine people, as it has some decent footage at the very least!

The story of my Hawken life... Fall in love with a mech only to have to leave it after it is nerfed into the ground.  This has happened with the Brawler with the Ascension patch and the Raider and Steam patch. I still encounter other players who are having success with the Raider but for me this last set of changes made an already difficult mech that much more so.  Needs a buff!

[SuicideCharlie]

Great video. I actually enjoyed watching you play aside from the great editorializing on the Raider.

I've only been playing for a little over a week (Yeah, I'm one of those Steam n00bs all you Beta vets complain about. ), and the Raider was the first mech I purchased off of the CRT. I initially thought it was a fantastic mech and really endeared me to CQC, however after consistent play I wholeheartedly agree with your review. While learning and perfecting my mechanics in game is an issue, I find myself at a distinct disadvantage against my prey even when plugging an open gap or flanking and the enemy team's rear. I just cannot seem to put out enough DPS to finish a fight I initiate.

The only time I use the Corsair-KLA in shotgun mode is when I'm nearly standing on or butt-hugging a target. Outside of that the reload time seems so long that I'd rather make us of the grenade's splash damage and range. I made the mistake of spending HC on the Bolt when it became available to me, and other than that opening burst damage from a charged shot it just cannot compare to the Re-Flak at present. Overall, I have so much trouble sustaining damage in a fight that I'm thinking of adding an offensive item to open up with while I still have the space with two MK-I items.

I would totally agree that the CD on Blitz needs to be brought down a bit, and/or the reload time on the KLA brought closer in line with the TOW and grenade launchers. At present, I think changing its mobility might tip the scales too far in one direction, and it certainly doesn't need to be beefed up armor wise. It's a... Well... Raider. Lighter armor and high speed should be it's dominating traits. Even if a Light-A can more adequately fill its intended role at the moment.

Caduceus26, funny enough, my Reaper is also named Scythe.

Edited by SuicideCharlie, March 14 2014 - 10:16 AM.

[AboveTheSky]

EOc Repeater is awesome on raider

[CounterlogicMan]

AboveTheSky, on March 15 2014 - 11:49 PM, said:

EOc Repeater is awesome on raider

until someone decides to fly around you and you can't hit them with any of your weapons.

Word is raider buff is coming, keep with it!

Edited by CounterlogicMan, March 21 2014 - 06:31 AM.

[Nosmer]

CounterlogicMan, on March 21 2014 - 06:31 AM, said:

until someone decides to fly around you and you can't hit them with any of your weapons.

Word is raider buff is coming, keep with it!

MIRV is designed as AA weapon. It's still tricky, but much easier to hit airborn targets with MIRV than with KLA.

Edited by Nosmer, March 21 2014 - 10:35 AM.

[_vanzi]

With that spread MIRV has an effective range of what, 2 meters_

I switched my Raider to Infiltrator, never looked back ever since.

[Hell_Diguner]

I think people underestimate the range disadvantage of all the shotguns. The scout gets away with it by avoiding incoming fire. The Brawler gets away with it (sometimes) with high health and repairing while in turret mode. Right now all that's going for the Raider is Blitz. While poweful, Blitz isn't enough to offset how he's squishy, easy to hit, and lacks both DPS and burst from his Corsair.

I think speed, health, and blitz are all okay, the Raider just needs sharper teeth. The Corsair should either have a much faster rate of fire (faster than the TOW / GL) or much greater damage. I also think the MIRV should have a tighter spread pattern and the T32 Bolt needs a rework to make it a viable alternative to the other shotguns.

[Stingz]

Hell_Diguner, on March 22 2014 - 09:54 PM, said:

...and the T32 Bolt needs a rework to make it a viable alternative to the other shotguns.

T-32 bolt is bugged and a fix is planned for it (90 Damage charged is not right).

Edited by Stingz, March 23 2014 - 04:40 PM.

[Hell_Diguner]

Stingz, on March 23 2014 - 04:39 PM, said:

T-32 bolt is bugged and a fix is planned for it (90 Damage charged is not right).

Interesting, this fellow https://docs.google....1#gid=416460446 has charged shot damage as ~111, though I normally use the spreadsheet you linked. The Flak cannon still out-DPS and out-bursts the T32 though, so hopefully the fix you claim will improve upon that.

[LeeHarveyOz]

Uses grenades at <30M
Activates Blitz to sit in the air
Oh god this hurts to watch.