117 replies to this topic

[Atmos_Dwagon]

Seeker is a pretty good weapon; Hellfires, not so much.

But apart from the obvious derp-juking, there's:
Deployable Shields. Sharpshooters. Reapers. Scouts. Cloaked Infiltrators. (anything with good gap-closing really)

Honestly, Rocketeers and Bruisers are very easily countered. I'm far more afraid of Grenadiers than either of those.

Which isn't to say there aren't good Rocketeer players, but the rank and file folks (like at my MMR) don't really think to much about how to use them.

Edited by Atmos_Dwagon, March 06 2014 - 08:28 AM.

[OmegaNull]

God I hate hell fires.

BTW, dodging hellfires is a lot of fun.

Edited by OmegaNull, March 06 2014 - 08:30 AM.

[XxFarrenxX]

hawken00, on March 06 2014 - 08:16 AM, said:

XxFarrenxX, on March 06 2014 - 07:50 AM, said:

hawken00, on March 06 2014 - 07:44 AM, said:

As I said, the problem comes when there are 2-3 or more Hellfire-equipped mechs. Which can be rare because the majority of players don't like to use that weapon, and most people will comment without having experienced it. Of course in 1v1 it is easy to counter if you know how to play..

If there are groups of say Rocketeers, than all you have to do is group up and kill them. It's pretty straightforward really. Just because there's more than one doesn't mean you can't bring friends. The obvious counter to this statement is that your team is bad. Then play with a Clan/organized play so you at least have someone who you can communicate and coordinate effectively with. Organized play has better quality anyway.

On maps like Bunker, the problem is the map, not the mech lineup. As I said just avoid the map.

Well a lot of players are bad in public matches, and I wouldn't say that I am a god either, but that is not the point. You don't have to do organized matchups to have fun, and the point of this thread is that Hellfires are kinda anti-fun. Map is bad_ Then get it off the rotation, but if it stays that's because the devs Think its fine...

I already stated your team can be bad, and yes, organized play isn't required but more consistent to have fun. Hellfires I have already discussed. Bunker is a bad map because players do mass Rocketeer/SS/Reaper/Bruiser. If it was impossible to do that then the map would be better in a way.

[Martock]

SlipperyJohnson, on March 06 2014 - 06:46 AM, said:

The most important part of balance for pvp games in developer discussions is making sure classes aren't anti-fun. This means making sure that a game's play isn't unnecessarily worsened by something that takes away parts of what makes a game fun.

The very nature of the Rocketeer is taking away skill from skillshots, it's the class that makes the other side quit as soon as it's entered the enemy team. you could say it's forgiveable as you could argue it needs to be implemented to counter A-classes, but this point alone isn't just what makes rocketeers anti-fun. It takes away any reward of skilful play and dodging when your playing a C, B or A-class., making it detrimental to both sides and when mixed with a massive base armor it's extremely hard to focus down before your team drop like flies, so the solution of taking it out first so we can play a fun normal game again is out of the question.

Don't get me wrong the Rocketeer is beatable and you can prevent a shot with corner dodging, it's not completely broken, it just fundamentally makes the game a worse place to be once they are picked. You can no longer fight in the open, you can no longer dodge and dying to those rockets that have been shot over an obstacle from somebody out of sight is the most frustrating thing in the game right now.

Can we please come up with a change that prevents rocketeers from making a game result in teams sitting behind obstacles at each end of the map before they quit_

This is a joke right_ The rocketeer is to OP_ Really_ Mayvbe from a distance they are a little dangerous, if you don't kow how and when to dodge. But that right there is the answer. Close the distance, and get in close. Even with lock on, they are useless at close range. Hellfire missiles are fine. Just learn how to play and you will be fine, too.

[Wasabi_Wei]

FakeName, on March 06 2014 - 07:12 AM, said:

I would be fine with an item called FLARES
which basically disbales every tracking weapon for a short duration (around 2-3 seconds) and is only for a specific area (a bigger one).
Tracking weapons are weapons like Hellfire, Seeker, Helix Torch, EOC (mines will only explode if mechs are stepping DIRECTLY on it) etc.

In the meantime, dropping a hologram and then backing up so it is between you and their Seekers and Hellfires causes it to lock onto the holo instead of you. I suggest using holos on Hellfire-heavy maps. Holos and turrets are a nice item combo.

[driedjello]

[angryhampster]

rocketeers are so fat, that scouts can run around that mech one time only to find out they are out of fuel....

im working on the jokes people....give it time...

[driedjello]

angryhampster, on March 06 2014 - 09:57 AM, said:

rocketeers are so fat, that scouts can run around that mech one time only to find out they are out of fuel....

im working on the jokes people....give it time...

Rocketeers are so fat, scouts perform a slingshot from their gravity to go faster...

[driedjello]

Your rocketeer is so fat, it has mass whether the Higgs Boson exists or not...

[HatesYourFace]

Rocketeers are so fat, when you shoot them in Siege people on your team yell "don't shoot the Battleship, take AA newb!"

Edited by HatesYourFace, March 06 2014 - 11:29 AM.

[driedjello]

HatesYourFace, on March 06 2014 - 11:28 AM, said:

Rocketeers are so fat, when you shoot them in Siege people on your team yell "don't shoot the Battleship, take AA newb!"

AH HA HA HA HA!!!!  We need a separate thread for what angryhamster has started here!

[angryhampster]

ur predator hiding capabilities are so dumb and predictable that i purposely pretend not to see you....

that was no joke....

Edited by angryhampster, March 06 2014 - 11:36 AM.

[StubbornPuppet]

Also, remember that Hellfire rockets can be shot out of the air.  So, pull out your rapid fire hitscan weapon and just keep shooting in the direction of the Rocketeer.  You can usually shoot down most of the 5 or 6 rockets that come with each shot - while all of them do a considerable amount of damage, only 1 or 2 of them don't hurt much.

I was once playing the Rocket slinging fatboy - locked on to a Berzerker with Hellfire and shot.  He dodges left and then comes charging at me in the air... then dodges right.  My entire volley of Hellfire rockets do a U-turn to chase him and then end up hitting me right in the cockpit - I died.  True Story.

[nokari]

hawken00, on March 06 2014 - 07:04 AM, said:

Superkamikazee, on March 06 2014 - 06:52 AM, said:

Hellfires are slow and easy to dodge, and in cqc the rocketeer is a sitting duck.

If there's only one guy with Hellfires, yes. Add 1 Rocketeer, and here comes the Hellfires spam. Add another one, and it completely ruins the gameplay

Not really, and that's no different than 2+ Bruisers. You may just be disliking the Hellfires, not the Rocketeer, but they are still easy to dodge if you are smart enough to use cover correctly and not try to run into wide open spaces in a short-range mech. It's common sense not to go out in the open with a short-range fighter against long-range enemies without long-range support or utilizing cover to close the gap/flank a long-range enemy and force them into CQC. This isn't a matter of Rocketeer being "anti-fun", it's a matter of utilized and un-utilized strategies.

Edited by nokari, March 06 2014 - 11:59 AM.

[Flifang]

if you have a problem with rocketeers, i suggest going reaper. just peek out and double shot, or pewpew at em a little then run behind cover. if your'e far enough away they usually just look around and then continue on like nothing happened. keep this up and he will have to heal, putting him out of combat.
The same goes for bruisers too. except they often investigate. at this point i pop my ability and go no scope crazy in his face when he closes. And when he pops his ability, get behind cover real quick so you don't wastefully build up heat.

[VocalMagic]

Superkamikazee, on March 06 2014 - 06:52 AM, said:

Hellfires are slow and easy to dodge, and in cqc the rocketeer is a sitting duck.

CQC Sitting duck_ Perhaps. But then that brings up the question of "Why, in missile Assault, does the entire team try to sneak up on me when I'm playing a turreted rocketeer in Bunker_ I'm not jumping up and hellfiring over everything. I'm just sitting there. And then, why, for a "Sitting duck", can I take out 3 of them with seekers before I'm taken out_"

I'm going to have to say there's something to the Anti-Fun argument. A Long-Range mech with no CQC shouldn't be able to take out 3 of 6 people IN CQC before getting blown up.

Edited by VocalMagic, March 06 2014 - 01:09 PM.

[driedjello]

VocalMagic, on March 06 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:

Superkamikazee, on March 06 2014 - 06:52 AM, said:

Hellfires are slow and easy to dodge, and in cqc the rocketeer is a sitting duck.

CQC Sitting duck_ Perhaps. But then that brings up the question of "Why, in missile Assault, does the entire team try to sneak up on me when I'm playing a turreted rocketeer in Bunker_ I'm not jumping up and hellfiring over everything. I'm just sitting there. And then, why, for a "Sitting duck", can I take out 3 of them with seekers before I'm taken out_"

I'm going to have to say there's something to the Anti-Fun argument. A Long-Range mech with no CQC shouldn't be able to take out 3 of 6 people IN CQC before getting blown up.

Good lord, I can only deduce they are very bad players.  Any use of cover on approach and then landing their shots would result in utter annihilation of the rocketeer.

[Superkamikazee]

VocalMagic, on March 06 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:

Superkamikazee, on March 06 2014 - 06:52 AM, said:

Hellfires are slow and easy to dodge, and in cqc the rocketeer is a sitting duck.

CQC Sitting duck_ Perhaps. But then that brings up the question of "Why, in missile Assault, does the entire team try to sneak up on me when I'm playing a turreted rocketeer in Bunker_ I'm not jumping up and hellfiring over everything. I'm just sitting there. And then, why, for a "Sitting duck", can I take out 3 of them with seekers before I'm taken out_"

I'm going to have to say there's something to the Anti-Fun argument. A Long-Range mech with no CQC shouldn't be able to take out 3 of 6 people IN CQC before getting blown up.

You destroyed 3 mechs in cqc that got the jump on you in a turret mode rocketeer_

[Duralumi]

Just get close to them.
When you do that they essentially only have their primary weapon. And if they're using the Seeker you might as well be fighting a crippled morbidly obese flying baby.

[mrvile]

VocalMagic, on March 06 2014 - 12:56 PM, said:

CQC Sitting duck_ Perhaps. But then that brings up the question of "Why, in missile Assault, does the entire team try to sneak up on me when I'm playing a turreted rocketeer in Bunker_ I'm not jumping up and hellfiring over everything. I'm just sitting there. And then, why, for a "Sitting duck", can I take out 3 of them with seekers before I'm taken out_"

I'm going to have to say there's something to the Anti-Fun argument. A Long-Range mech with no CQC shouldn't be able to take out 3 of 6 people IN CQC before getting blown up.

There is nothing remotely "anti-fun" about that. You just ran into some terrible players. There will always be very good Rocketeer pilots and very bad Scout and Berserker pilots. This has nothing to do with mech or weapon balance, it's just part of the Hawken experience. Seems like the overwhelming majority of people in this thread agree that Rocketeers and Hellfires are no big deal, even when stacked.

This is almost like the "G2 Assault is OP!" thread...