89 replies to this topic

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

Stingz, on March 19 2014 - 06:37 PM, said:

Hijinks_The_Turtle, on March 19 2014 - 04:58 PM, said:

Don't forget that we need the mines to fly faster and that we should be able to explode them in mid air.

Last time I used EOC Pred I'm quite sure you can air detonate the mines. Not exact on this since it was a testdrive a while back.

Nope... I've been playing Predator since early December 2013, and it's my only prestige mech.  I can safely say that the pred mines don't detonate in the air.  Unless the devs put in some secret function for the mines to detonate in the air that I don't know of.

Edited by Hijinks_The_Turtle, March 19 2014 - 06:40 PM.

[Hellrazer_001]

I would have agreed 100% with you a week back, but now that I have figured out how to use it well, I am not only getting high scores I am dominating up to 3 players at once, with a ping around the 320 - 350 mark!

I use the EOC Repeater, because I can not hit the side of a battle ship with the others , but the EOC Repeater coupled with the EOC Predator wreaks havoc amongst the enemy. I frequently have Assaults and Heavys running now, the best way to use the Predator is Agressively, stand to the side of your team in a fire fight and plaster the bunched up enemy in Sticky bullets and mines, and learn to figure out where they will be and cut them off when they try to escape by laying your stickys in there escape route.

I only lay Mine traps around 5% of the time in a match because they are not cost effective most of the time, Most of the Time I am in there with the other Mechs on my side, and just covering the enemy in EOC Goodness, only sometimes I am out alone picking off, and if I am, I always try to leave some distance between me and a single enemy, it gives me time to lay Both EOC weapons in there way and they cant just fly over them because I am not close enough for them to reach me, and as I am firing, where I think they will be moving, I am retreating until I have time to cloak when I am out of sight, and they think I have gone and let there gaurd down and then I usually pop back out and say HI. " things can always go funky though and I end up dying ".

Internals that are a must are:

Stock coil- You can jump off any hight and stay in Cloak
Deflector-  Every bit helps when you are in a fight
Advanced Reconstructor- I hardly ever heal any more, I just duck out of sight or Cloak and in a few seconds I am healed again.


My Last 3 Missions



Hello I can seeee yooou !

Edited by Hellrazer_001, March 20 2014 - 06:51 AM.

[mccrorie]

yes, it can be a great support. if your team is working together. otherwise forget it.

[RAWDEALIO]

Pred feels good, cept the no good shotgun option.  The bolt used to be pretty nice.

[Farlanghn]

Hellrazer_001, on March 20 2014 - 05:58 AM, said:

I would have agreed 100% with you a week back, but now that I have figured out how to use it well, I am not only getting high scores I am dominating up to 3 players at once, with a ping around the 320 - 350 mark!

I use the EOC Repeater, because I can not hit the side of a battle ship with the others , but the EOC Repeater coupled with the EOC Predator wreaks havoc amongst the enemy. I frequently have Assaults and Heavys running now, the best way to use the Predator is Agressively, stand to the side of your team in a fire fight and plaster the bunched up enemy in Sticky bullets and mines, and learn to figure out where they will be and cut them off when they try to escape by laying your stickys in there escape route.

I only lay Mine traps around 5% of the time in a match because they are not cost effective most of the time, Most of the Time I am in there with the other Mechs on my side, and just covering the enemy in EOC Goodness, only sometimes I am out alone picking off, and if I am, I always try to leave some distance between me and a single enemy, it gives me time to lay Both EOC weapons in there way and they cant just fly over them because I am not close enough for them to reach me, and as I am firing, where I think they will be moving, I am retreating until I have time to cloak when I am out of sight, and they think I have gone and let there gaurd down and then I usually pop back out and say HI. " things can always go funky though and I end up dying ".

Internals that are a must are:

Stock coil- You can jump off any hight and stay in Cloak
Deflector-  Every bit helps when you are in a fight
Advanced Reconstructor- I hardly ever heal any more, I just duck out of sight or Cloak and in a few seconds I am healed again.


My Last 3 Missions



Hello I can seeee yooou !

Yep, I'm glad you took my advice. It's a sweet mech!

[ninjab3ta]

I love these people complaining about a mech that isn't  kill-hungry, twitch-focused and thirsts for the blood/oil of all enemies. This is not COD, kiddies. The same people complain about the Incinerator, bruiser, rockteteer... basically everything that isn't Berzerker or Assault. God forbid we have a shooting/action game that requires basic tactical awareness and foresight in it...

Please note that the people defending the viability of this mech actually have experience in it. They are also giving out very good advice, instead of being condescending jerks. Basically, it's a hipster mech, but without the hipster attitude from the pilots.

Edited by ninjab3ta, March 23 2014 - 01:10 PM.

[Phantasmo]

ninjab3ta, on March 23 2014 - 01:08 PM, said:

God forbid we have a shooting/action game that requires basic tactical awareness and foresight in it...

Except it does not require none of what you say. I can play Raider, Berserker etc and just run around the map killing like a maniac.
Those mechs don't seem to require any sense of strategy. Therefore, you can win in this game using those or similar mechs.

It's all BLA BLA BLA: Predator is inferior in many ways and you just don't want to see it, hence it being called "tactic", "defensive", "team reliant" etc etc. This is the truth.


Edit: Rank 6 Predator here.

Edited by Phantasmo, March 23 2014 - 01:33 PM.

[ninjab3ta]

Phantasmo, on March 23 2014 - 01:33 PM, said:

ninjab3ta, on March 23 2014 - 01:08 PM, said:

God forbid we have a shooting/action game that requires basic tactical awareness and foresight in it...

Except it does not require none of what you say. I can play Raider, Berserker etc and just run around the map killing like a maniac.
Those mechs don't seem to require any sense of strategy. Therefore, you can win in this game using those or similar mechs.

It's all BLA BLA BLA: Predator is inferior in many ways and you just don't want to see it, hence it being called "tactic", "defensive", "team reliant" etc etc. This is the truth.


Edit: Rank 6 Predator here.

So what you're saying is, you just lol face first into enemies and walk away with kills_ So you are the best pilot out there, fighting the worst scrubs in the game, or, probably most likely, thinking about the engagement and diving in when you  can, flanking when going in head first is suicide. The point is, because this game is wont of instant kills, you need to approach it tactically. The predator takes this to the extreme, and yes, can be a hindrance, but damn if ANY mech in the game can 1v6 and win every time. Some of these things are just not meant to 1v1, and if that is your only litmus test for how good these vehicles are in comparison to each other, then please kindly stay in low-level play.

tl;dr  this is a thinking man's game, and the pred is a thinking man's mech

[mccrorie]

Yes, sure. A thinking man's mech. Problem is you can't think of all eventualities, cover all possible scenarios, or even attempt to cover a significant portion of a single map with traps. You think about where to place yourself and your mines in relation the enemy group, consider when to EMP the enemy from a hiding spot, when to chase a weakened mechs, etc. Problem is is these efforts are easily countered by someone choosing routes A, B and C instead of route S, or simply pressing space bar and flying over your ponderous traps, nullyfing in an instant all that thinking.

Thinking man's mech translates into overly contrived gameplay in a game that is currently very dynamic.

If the predator is going to be shoehorned into a niche role then make the mech better at that role. I made some suggestions for this already, and I don't think are much to ask for. Improved walk speed and flying ability. That's not going to make the Predator a problem in regards to balance.

Edited by mccrorie, March 23 2014 - 02:55 PM.

[ninjab3ta]

>implying it's impossible to lure someone into a trap with merely the predator's crappy reputation
>implying this mech totally can't help hold an objective since it is literally the only mech with mines

You know what else is shoehorned into a niche role_ The sharpshooter. Don't see many problems with that mech.

You can call the mech bad all you want, the fact is every mech in this game requires a specific mindset. If you have a hard time wrapping your brain around how to effectively play one of them, say the predator, then just don't play the damn thing.

Please remember we are all testing this game in its beta, and people clogging the forum with "i don't like how this mech plays, it must be bad" does not really help the devs at all.

[Dew]

I used to think the Predator was balanced until I really tried using it in competitive matches. Can you do well with the Pred in a pub_ Sure. When people are disorganized and taking risks and not really paying attention it's pretty easy to trap people and pick off stragglers. In a competitive environment where people are playing seriously, it's completely different.

As a Predator in a competitive match, even in objective game modes, it is not possible to be effective.

• If you're sticking with your team and playing in a supportive role, there are plenty of other mechs that will fill your job better. Mine spam does not do enough damage to be effective and poking with the Breacher is nice, but ultimately doesn't do as much damage as the other options available to you.
  
• If you are trying to be a flanker and pick off weak mechs, any A-class is a better choice. The Predator is far too slow to be effective in this role, and does not have the burst of a Scout, Zerker, or Infiltrator. You are too slow getting to the flank, and too slow in an escape even if you manage to pick someone off. A Predator in a flanking role essentially sees your team playing a man down for most of the match. Even if you flank successfully, you aren't fast enough to flee afterwards and are probably going to get eaten by the enemy team as they cave on you. Even trying something fancy like setting traps for pursuers after you snipe a kill is ineffective, because the EOC-P is far too noticeable both audibly and on the radar, and setting a trap strong enough to instagib pursuers takes forever. Radar Jammer does little to mitigate this.
  
• Setting defensive traps in the heat of battle is pretty much impossible due to how easy it is for a stray explosive to completely remove your trap, on top of how long it takes to set it up in the first place. This isn't even an option.

The sad thing is I can't think of good ways to balance this mech and keep its playstyle consistent. All I can think of at the moment is possibly a projectile speed and ROF buff for the EOC-P to make it more viable in combat and trap-laying, along with a significant boost to walk and boost speed. Increasing the damage or allowing multiple pucks to be charged on the EOC-P is a dangerous path to go down that could easily go too far and create more problems than it solves.

EDIT: Just so it's absolutely clear:

The predator is currently an extremely weak mech in any organized setting and I would never bring it to any fight I was serious about.

... and I think most people would agree that I'm a pretty reliable authority on the matter.

Edited by Dew, March 23 2014 - 03:23 PM.

[mccrorie]

ninjab3ta, on March 23 2014 - 03:05 PM, said:

>implying it's impossible to lure someone into a trap with merely the predator's crappy reputation
>implying this mech totally can't help hold an objective since it is literally the only mech with mines

You know what else is shoehorned into a niche role_ The sharpshooter. Don't see many problems with that mech.

You can call the mech bad all you want, the fact is every mech in this game requires a specific mindset. If you have a hard time wrapping your brain around how to effectively play one of them, say the predator, then just don't play the damn thing.

Please remember we are all testing this game in its beta, and people clogging the forum with "i don't like how this mech plays, it must be bad" does not really help the devs at all.

I don't really understand the way you communicate.

And I don't see how the SS is shoehorned into anything. It has strong hit-scan weapons.

[mccrorie]

Dew, on March 23 2014 - 03:18 PM, said:

The predator is currently an extremely weak mech in any organized setting and I would never bring it to any fight I was serious about.

... and I think most people would agree that I'm a pretty reliable authority on the matter.

Yes I think ROF and projectile speed would help without making things imbalanced. You still only get to have 10 pucks out at once, and no one is going to rely on the EOC P as a reliable attacking weapon anyway. Combined with the speed and flying improvements I imagine this change will lift the Predators APM and take some of the heat off the rest of the team. Right now the way I see it, unless you're some kind of uber player, your team is carrying you when you use Predator.

[Phantasmo]

I'd buff the Breacher a bit since it's Predator's weapon. Breacher's RoF could use a big buff IMO.
I just can't think of any reason why it should be so useless.

[Stingz]

Phantasmo, on March 23 2014 - 05:40 PM, said:

I'd buff the Breacher a bit since it's Predator's weapon. Breacher's RoF could use a big buff IMO.
I just can't think of any reason why it should be so useless.

Giving the Breacher shotgun mode stats closer to the Flak Cannon could work, not sure how this would affect Slug mode though. Increase the reload time while reducing damage at the least, 2 sec is almost as slow as a TOW reload (2.25).

Breacher(shotgun 144) currently does more damage than Flak Cannon(118), but has worse reload time(2 vs 1.225) and much worse spread(14 vs 9.5). Breacher has better minimum damage (42 vs 11), though that's what Slug is for.

The worst part of any weapon is probably the reload time. Getting torn to pieces by Flak mechs while Breacher is reloading, and wastes most of the damage with it's huge spread sounds awful.

Edited by Stingz, March 23 2014 - 06:56 PM.

[mccrorie]

The breacher is not terribly good at long or short range.

*shrugs*

I had some fun against new players last night placing my own shields and firing through them with the Breacher, but it's hardly a reliable tactic.

[Lightangel112]

Predator needs a lot of buffs to boost, movement and aerial speed (needs to match that of assaults imo). EOC P should get an increase to the rate of fire of, 2 pucks a second, so 1 puck every 0.5 seconds and it's projectile speed needs to be increased greatly. Heat should also be slightly reduced from the new changes. 2 second reload is deadly, should be reduced subtancially.

Edited by Lightangel112, March 23 2014 - 07:07 PM.

[Hijinks_The_Turtle]

I just hope we get buffs to make Predator more viable (whatever they are).  So many people have posted that the mech is too hard to learn due to it's disappointing damage and generally low stats, that's it's making me think hard on why these people think this way.  I've also been thinking that Predator has too many negatives than positives in terms of fights and it's ability to survive.  The devs need to see this thread!

Edited by Hijinks_The_Turtle, March 23 2014 - 07:41 PM.

[Dew]

The Breacher is a very good weapon, and the best thing about the Predator currently. Without it the mech has little to no merit at all.

[Phantasmo]

Dew, on March 23 2014 - 10:29 PM, said:

The Breacher is a very good weapon, and the best thing about the Predator currently. Without it the mech has little to no merit at all.

The Breacher as it is now is useless. Not enough high RoF, neither in charged not in sustained mode.
There's a difference between looking for 1vs1 fights and being able to defend yourself. The Breacher does not allow you to do either of these.

The ability to shoot through shields is cool, but it's so, so situational. And the spread doesn't help. Not even short ranged weapons such as Flak, T32 etc have the atrocious spread the Breacher has.

I think the devs thought they were breaking too many rules with the Predator (shoot through shields, invisibility) and they wanted to stay conservative, and they ended up being too conservative.