74 replies to this topic

[Silverfire]

You're assuming pubstomps happen only because of parties, when that clearly isn't the case. So if parties get removed and the stomps still inevitably happen, what will you blame then_

Edited by Silverfire, March 25 2014 - 02:00 PM.

[RazorDawg]

Silverfire, on March 25 2014 - 01:57 PM, said:

So if parties get removed and the stomps still inevitably happen, what will you blame then_

Stomp will happen less often after the removal of parties. I guarantee it. Before the implemintation of parties, actual 'good games' happened more often, and deserved the right to say gg. Now I can play for a whole week and I get less good balanced games where skill is even in both teams.

[nokari]

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:03 PM, said:

Silverfire, on March 25 2014 - 01:57 PM, said:

So if parties get removed and the stomps still inevitably happen, what will you blame then_

Stomp will happen less often after the removal of parties. I guarantee it. Before the implemintation of parties, actual 'good games' happened more often, and deserved the right to say gg. Now I can play for a whole week and I get less good balanced games where skill is even in both teams.

Stomps happened plenty before parties existed and will remain after their removal. You guarantee nothing but your own opinionated view of things.

[AsianJoyKiller]

PhasmaFelis, on March 25 2014 - 01:40 PM, said:

AsianJoyKiller, on March 25 2014 - 12:39 PM, said:

Removing partying from a multiplayer game is tantamount to suicide. It's a fantastic way to kill a game these days.
Being able to party up with friends is one of the single most important features in modern multiplayer games. It's simply not an option to get rid of it, not in today's gaming culture. Maybe you could have gotten away with it a decade ago or so, but not these days.

Team Fortress 2. Never had parties, still huge.

If you want to play with your friends in TF2, you click the "join friend's server" button in Steam and there you are. It helps to make the connection that shooting your friends is just as fun as teaming up with them.

There's always exceptions to the rule. But your also ignoring that it's not as easy to join friends in Hawken due to restrictions.

And whether or not shooting your friends is just as fun as cooperating with them is entirely relative to the individual. Since it is a relative matter, neither objectively better or worse, it really ends up being a moot point.

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:03 PM, said:

Stomp will happen less often after the removal of parties. I guarantee it. Before the implemintation of parties, actual 'good games' happened more often, and deserved the right to say gg. Now I can play for a whole week and I get less good balanced games where skill is even in both teams.

Unless you can provide actual numbers on the difference of rates of pubstomps pre and post party implementation, you don't have any weight behind your argument.
Especially as me, and many other veterans who have been in the game longer than you have, can attest to the fact that there was plenty of pubstomping going on before parties were implemented.

[RazorDawg]

nokari, on March 25 2014 - 02:08 PM, said:

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:03 PM, said:

Silverfire, on March 25 2014 - 01:57 PM, said:

So if parties get removed and the stomps still inevitably happen, what will you blame then_

Stomp will happen less often after the removal of parties. I guarantee it. Before the implemintation of parties, actual 'good games' happened more often, and deserved the right to say gg. Now I can play for a whole week and I get less good balanced games where skill is even in both teams.

Stomps happened plenty before parties existed and will remain after their removal. You guarantee nothing but your own opinionated view of things.

You never play.

[Silverfire]

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:12 PM, said:

nokari, on March 25 2014 - 02:08 PM, said:

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:03 PM, said:

Silverfire, on March 25 2014 - 01:57 PM, said:

So if parties get removed and the stomps still inevitably happen, what will you blame then_

Stomp will happen less often after the removal of parties. I guarantee it. Before the implemintation of parties, actual 'good games' happened more often, and deserved the right to say gg. Now I can play for a whole week and I get less good balanced games where skill is even in both teams.

Stomps happened plenty before parties existed and will remain after their removal. You guarantee nothing but your own opinionated view of things.

You never play.

Oh, so when I see you've resorted to directly attacking the credentials of nokari, I assume you have nothing else to present as "evidence" and only have insults left to use. Wonderful.

I've been in the game for over a year and stomps have happened even before the party system.  What do you have to back up your claim that stomps will happen less without a party system_ You don't have anything except a vague guarantee.

[RazorDawg]

I'm here actively trying to suggest improvements to the game and I see that there are people here in this thread that don't like to support good decision making. I see now that these forums are full of people that don't know any better. I'm also willing to bet that people here would disagree that the predator is garbage.

Edited by RazorDawg, March 25 2014 - 02:26 PM.

[Dinre]

I don't know if this is helpful, since arguing is sometimes a lot of fun... but I have the solution that may end the need for this conversation:

All Mayhem servers.

=p


P.S.  Since sarcasm and wit doesn't infer well over the internet, I am explicitly declaring that the above is a not-so-serious statement.

P.P.S.  I don't think Predator is garbage, but I agree that it is very hard to learn.  When I finally got the hang of it, I found it to be a powerful mech when used with certain styles of play.

[nokari]

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:12 PM, said:

nokari, on March 25 2014 - 02:08 PM, said:

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:03 PM, said:

Silverfire, on March 25 2014 - 01:57 PM, said:

So if parties get removed and the stomps still inevitably happen, what will you blame then_

Stomp will happen less often after the removal of parties. I guarantee it. Before the implemintation of parties, actual 'good games' happened more often, and deserved the right to say gg. Now I can play for a whole week and I get less good balanced games where skill is even in both teams.

Stomps happened plenty before parties existed and will remain after their removal. You guarantee nothing but your own opinionated view of things.

You never play.

Right. Clearly you have nothing constructive or thoughtful to say.

[RazorDawg]

nokari, on March 25 2014 - 02:34 PM, said:

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:12 PM, said:

nokari, on March 25 2014 - 02:08 PM, said:

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:03 PM, said:

Silverfire, on March 25 2014 - 01:57 PM, said:

So if parties get removed and the stomps still inevitably happen, what will you blame then_

Stomp will happen less often after the removal of parties. I guarantee it. Before the implemintation of parties, actual 'good games' happened more often, and deserved the right to say gg. Now I can play for a whole week and I get less good balanced games where skill is even in both teams.

Stomps happened plenty before parties existed and will remain after their removal. You guarantee nothing but your own opinionated view of things.

You never play.

Right. Clearly you have nothing constructive or thoughtful to say.

No need to argue with someone that never plays.

Edited by RazorDawg, March 25 2014 - 02:38 PM.

[Silverfire]

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:

I'm here actively trying to suggest improvements to the game and I see that there are people here in this thread that don't like to support good decision making. I see now that these forums are full of people that don't know any better.

Yes, you're trying to suggest a supposed improvement, but thing is, it won't do anything in regards to stomping.  As a matter of fact, it'll hurt the game if anything, so I wouldn't call this "good decision making."

Reasoning for hurting the game:

People like playing with friends.  "join server" on the friends list isn't good enough because it isn't a guarantee that they will play on the same team. Friends want to play on the same team.  Clans want to group up on the same team.  Ask around, people will say that they enjoy playing with friends, clan members, etc.  Now, what's an easy way to make this happen_ Party system!  

Removing the party system will:
1. prevent casuals from playing with friends
2. complicate organizing clan scrims

I've been around this game for over a year and I've seen clans asking for party systems for months.  We've finally got it and it's now easier to organize clan scrims, or even general organized games because pre-planned parties can be created to go up against other parties.  In addition, as I said before, people like playing with other people. There would be a huge uproar over a feature that was asked for and asked for is immediately removed. Some people would actually QUIT the game.  Not quit matches, QUIT THE GAME.  How exactly is a playerbase-reducing action good for a game_ Oh wait, it isn't.

Hawken is a multiplayer only game.  Removing a feature that allows people to organize themselves in the only form of play isn't good for the health of the game. It just isn't smart in a multiplayer ONLY game.


Reasoning for not affecting stomps:

Stomps existed before the party system. They were just as frequent.  I've been around, I've seen it. Other veterans will attest to the pre-existing stomps before the party system.  Stomps also existed after the party system was implemented.


You also can't guarantee stomps will decrease in number if the party system is removed. Unless you can provide evidence to show the differences in amount of stomps between pre-party Hawken and post-party Hawken, you can't argue anything at all.  All you can give is a very vague guarantee that literally has no backing whatsoever to it other than your opinion.  Your opinion isn't evidence enough, if at all. You can't assert your opinion to be the absolute truth when you have no backing to it.

[nokari]

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:38 PM, said:

No need to argue with someone that never plays.

Can't tell if troll or overly defensive.

How many hours do you have and when did you start playing on a regular basis_

Edited by nokari, March 25 2014 - 02:45 PM.

[Silverfire]

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:38 PM, said:

nokari, on March 25 2014 - 02:34 PM, said:

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:12 PM, said:

nokari, on March 25 2014 - 02:08 PM, said:

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:03 PM, said:

Silverfire, on March 25 2014 - 01:57 PM, said:

So if parties get removed and the stomps still inevitably happen, what will you blame then_

Stomp will happen less often after the removal of parties. I guarantee it. Before the implemintation of parties, actual 'good games' happened more often, and deserved the right to say gg. Now I can play for a whole week and I get less good balanced games where skill is even in both teams.

Stomps happened plenty before parties existed and will remain after their removal. You guarantee nothing but your own opinionated view of things.

You never play.

Right. Clearly you have nothing constructive or thoughtful to say.

No need to argue with someone that never plays.

Resorting to ad hominem isn't a viable way of arguing a point, as a matter of fact, it's a fallacy.  It's a moot point, especially when nokari plays the game.  If you can't prove nokari doesn't play, well, don't make the claim and make yourself look like a fool.

[RazorDawg]

Silverfire, on March 25 2014 - 02:41 PM, said:

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:38 PM, said:

nokari, on March 25 2014 - 02:34 PM, said:

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:12 PM, said:

nokari, on March 25 2014 - 02:08 PM, said:

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:03 PM, said:

Silverfire, on March 25 2014 - 01:57 PM, said:

So if parties get removed and the stomps still inevitably happen, what will you blame then_

Stomp will happen less often after the removal of parties. I guarantee it. Before the implemintation of parties, actual 'good games' happened more often, and deserved the right to say gg. Now I can play for a whole week and I get less good balanced games where skill is even in both teams.

Stomps happened plenty before parties existed and will remain after their removal. You guarantee nothing but your own opinionated view of things.

You never play.

Right. Clearly you have nothing constructive or thoughtful to say.

No need to argue with someone that never plays.

Resorting to ad hominem isn't a viable way of arguing a point, as a matter of fact, it's a fallacy.  It's a moot point, especially when nokari plays the game.  If you can't prove nokari doesn't play, well, don't make the claim and make yourself look like a fool.

I'm not trying to offend your boyfriend by saying he doesn't play. He just simply doesn't play. I can say what I want, and saying that he doesn't play when he clearly doesn't show up in the game does not make me look like a fool or makes it a moot point.

Parties will and ferever be a problem.

[Silverfire]

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:47 PM, said:

-snip-

I'm not trying to offend your boyfriend by saying he doesn't play. He just simply doesn't play. I can say what I want, and saying that he doesn't play when he clearly doesn't show up in the game does not make me look like a fool or makes it a moot point.

Parties will and ferever be a problem.

Can you back up your claim though_ Evidence, otherwise your point is a moot point.

[AsianJoyKiller]

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:

I'm here actively trying to suggest improvements to the game and I see that there are people here in this thread that don't like to support good decision making. I see now that these forums are full of people that don't know any better. I'm also willing to bet that people here would disagree that the predator is garbage.

Prove conclusively what you are suggesting is a good decision.
You can make assertions all you want, but you aren't proving anything to back up what you say.

You've made the vague claim that removing parties will reduce the frequency of stomps, but you are so far unable to provide any actual evidence that would back up that claim, and prove that the reduction in frequency would justify pissing off and losing a large portion of the playerbase.

[RazorDawg]

Silverfire, on March 25 2014 - 02:48 PM, said:

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:47 PM, said:

-snip-

I'm not trying to offend your boyfriend by saying he doesn't play. He just simply doesn't play. I can say what I want, and saying that he doesn't play when he clearly doesn't show up in the game does not make me look like a fool or makes it a moot point.

Parties will and ferever be a problem.

Can you back up your claim though_ Evidence, otherwise your point is a moot point.

AsianJoyKiller, on March 25 2014 - 02:50 PM, said:

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:

I'm here actively trying to suggest improvements to the game and I see that there are people here in this thread that don't like to support good decision making. I see now that these forums are full of people that don't know any better. I'm also willing to bet that people here would disagree that the predator is garbage.

Prove conclusively what you are suggesting is a good decision.
You can make assertions all you want, but you aren't proving anything to back up what you say.

You've made the vague claim that removing parties will reduce the frequency of stomps, but you are so far unable to provide any actual evidence that would back up that claim, and prove that the reduction in frequency would justify pissing off and losing a large portion of the playerbase.

It's funny that you try to force evidence to come to play when that's impossible to do for a player. The only way you can possibly know that I'm telling the truth is if you play the game, which most here don't.

[craftydus]

I like to party.





Pubstomps build character.
I like to dress up as that character....and party.

[Silverfire]

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:53 PM, said:

Silverfire, on March 25 2014 - 02:48 PM, said:

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:47 PM, said:

-snip-

I'm not trying to offend your boyfriend by saying he doesn't play. He just simply doesn't play. I can say what I want, and saying that he doesn't play when he clearly doesn't show up in the game does not make me look like a fool or makes it a moot point.

Parties will and ferever be a problem.

Can you back up your claim though_ Evidence, otherwise your point is a moot point.

AsianJoyKiller, on March 25 2014 - 02:50 PM, said:

RazorDawg, on March 25 2014 - 02:23 PM, said:

I'm here actively trying to suggest improvements to the game and I see that there are people here in this thread that don't like to support good decision making. I see now that these forums are full of people that don't know any better. I'm also willing to bet that people here would disagree that the predator is garbage.

Prove conclusively what you are suggesting is a good decision.
You can make assertions all you want, but you aren't proving anything to back up what you say.

You've made the vague claim that removing parties will reduce the frequency of stomps, but you are so far unable to provide any actual evidence that would back up that claim, and prove that the reduction in frequency would justify pissing off and losing a large portion of the playerbase.

It's funny that you try to force evidence to come to play when that's impossible to do for a player. The only way you can possibly know that I'm telling the truth is if you play the game, which most here don't.

Um, excuse me_ I play the game. As a matter of fact, I last played the game 2 days ago.  If you want, go on and check my Steam profile.
http://steamcommunit...61198125439172/

I plan on playing later today as well.  Point invalidated.

And your truth is only your opinion, which isn't truth at all.  You can't even back up your own opinion with evidence, how am I supposed to buy into your idea_ I can't.

[RazorDawg]

craftydus, on March 25 2014 - 02:54 PM, said:

I like to party.





Pubstomps build character.
I like to dress up as that character....and party.

Look at that forced smile, she obviously doesn't wan't to be there. The guy smoking also wants to leave.